I truly despair

prj45

Agent57 wrote:

Can I have your stuff?

I don't think there'll be much to have after I've been finished with.

Greg T

prj45 wrote:

Agent57 wrote:

Can I have your stuff?

I don't think there'll be much to have after I've been finished with.

You wouldn't want it after I've gone over the body by the side of the road for my own purposes...

Big Wib

Porgy wrote:

So anything that forces motorists to think about their speed is a good thing in my book. People who ride in the dark without lights may be idiots, or they may be thrill seekers, but to me they are doing sterling work putting their lives on the line, so that we don;t have to.

:P

Runoutofgears

Seems to be a common issue in Bristol City Centre, did a tally of cyclists with no/poor lighting whilst waiting for my daughter last night, 50% or so failed the ROOG safe lighting test.

Wooliferkins

White Horse wrote:

The Chingford Skinhead wrote:

would you insist that pedestrians should all wear lights and reflective clothing between dusk and dawn so drivers can see them when crossing the road?

My daughter's school have been handing out little reflectors to hang from coats or school bags quoting some research from Finland that pedestrians are x times safer when they are wearing reflective clothing than when not. I don't think it's a new concept - If you're out at night - BE SEEN. Why wouldn't someone make the effort to be seen by motorists?

These reflectors are mandatory in Norway

cougie

I spent New Years up in the Lakes a while back - we'd often find walkers finishing off their walks in the pitch black and having to make their way back down roads on foot. No walking kit seems to have reflectives on. If I'm going down roads at night in the dark - I'm damn well making sure I have reflectives or lights with me - whether I'm on foot or on a bike.

We know some motorists are dangerous - so we need everything we can get to stand out. Not having reflectors at night on a main road is very foolish.

wgwarburton

cougie wrote:

.... No walking kit seems to have reflectives on. ...
We know some motorists are dangerous - so we need everything we can get to stand out. Not having reflectors at night on a main road is very foolish.

Hmm, it's worth bearing in mind that the point of head lights on a car is to let you see ahead well enough to be able to use the thing in the dark.

While reflectives might be a good idea for pedestrians and cyclists there isn't any obligation to wear them and TBH I don't think there should be.

Cheers,
W.

roger_merriman

WGWarburton wrote:

cougie wrote:

.... No walking kit seems to have reflectives on. ...
We know some motorists are dangerous - so we need everything we can get to stand out. Not having reflectors at night on a main road is very foolish.

Hmm, it's worth bearing in mind that the point of head lights on a car is to let you see ahead well enough to be able to use the thing in the dark.

While reflectives might be a good idea for pedestrians and cyclists there isn't any obligation to wear them and TBH I don't think there should be.

Cheers,
W.

well quite, country lanes in the dark normally give you better vision in a car as full beams are quite powerful and people tend to be easier to spot.

and quite frankly does any one wear hi-vis to the pub or walking to the shop etc?

Porgy

I was shocked to notice that kids going to school round my way are wearing hi-vis now.

Cafewanda

Greg T wrote:

Lakesman wrote:

Cafewanda wrote:

Simples: D-lock the dozy female and run down (and over) the ninja. No witnesses

Home for a relaxing shower, meal and wine/beer.

Problem?

To suggest running someone over, even followed by a smiley, is not a good response.

Perhaps if they'd followed up by suggesting post mortem mutiliation and shallow graving would have raised more of a titter from beneath your mother superior cowl?

I knew I should have thought of a finale. Thanks Greg T

I admit to having a sick sense of humour at times

attica

I'm reminded of the way the sound engineers used to mix Motorhead
"everything louder than everything else"

I think that the proliferation of signs in city centres with all of their reflective surfaces cloud the issue, sometimes there are so many things reflecting at you that it takes a moment to work out what is moving and what is telling you stuff.

Add in reflectives on road workers and anybody who has a job near a road and all of a sudden everything is bright and nothing stands out at all.

IMHO reflectives should be for people and vehicles that are actually in the road (including peds on roads without pavements) and not for people who want to walk down the pavement and for important road signs - ones telling me that there's a golf course nearby or somesuch really can do without being reflective.

cougie

WGWarburton wrote:

cougie wrote:

.... No walking kit seems to have reflectives on. ...
We know some motorists are dangerous - so we need everything we can get to stand out. Not having reflectors at night on a main road is very foolish.

Hmm, it's worth bearing in mind that the point of head lights on a car is to let you see ahead well enough to be able to use the thing in the dark.

While reflectives might be a good idea for pedestrians and cyclists there isn't any obligation to wear them and TBH I don't think there should be.

Cheers,
W.

Well of course headlights do help see thing in the dark - but black clad walkers next to a dark hedge dont exactly leap out at you. A few bits of reflective piping and you would see them a lot further off. If I'm on the road - I'm as bright as I can be.

biondino

Attica wrote:

Add in reflectives on road workers and anybody who has a job near a road and all of a sudden everything is bright and nothing stands out at all.

It's a logical-sounding argument until you realise that actually, everything isn't high viz. Cars aren't, buildings aren't, trees aren't, the vast majority of peds aren't, pavements aren't, walls aren't, roads aren't, parking meters aren't, shop windows aren't, the sky isn't.

A few peds and about half of cyclists and motorcyclists? A drop in the low-contrast, pastel-dominated ocean.

MonkeyMonster

Cafewanda wrote:

I admit to having a sick sense of humour at times

I'm gonna take that as yoof speak for being good. Which it is.

UndercoverElephant

cougie wrote:

black clad walkers next to a dark hedge dont exactly leap out at you.

If they're going to start doing that, would Hi-Viz help at all?

attica

biondino wrote:

Attica wrote:

Add in reflectives on road workers and anybody who has a job near a road and all of a sudden everything is bright and nothing stands out at all.

It's a logical-sounding argument until you realise that actually, everything isn't high viz. Cars aren't, buildings aren't, trees aren't, the vast majority of peds aren't, pavements aren't, walls aren't, roads aren't, parking meters aren't, shop windows aren't, the sky isn't.

A few peds and about half of cyclists and motorcyclists? A drop in the low-contrast, pastel-dominated ocean.

I'm not thinking about during the day though.
Also I forgot to mention car lights and street lights - and double that if it's raining at night thanks to the reflection from shiny wet roads.
It doesn't take much for things to stop standing out

biondino

Attica wrote:

I'm not thinking about during the day though.
Also I forgot to mention car lights and street lights - and double that if it's raining at night thanks to the reflection from shiny wet roads.
It doesn't take much for things to stop standing out

But the alternatives to high viz/lights is being invisible!

Last night I was cycling through hyde park and saw a yellow flashing light a couple of hundred yards ahead of me. It was pretty dark otherwise, and I slowed down, wondering what obstacle there might be in my way. I was further confused by the fact it seemed to be moving.

A few seconds later, it became clear it was a cyclist's front light. I'd been thoroughly confused, and told him as he passed that it was the wrong colour.

On the other hand, high viz, and standard red/white lights, are rightly associated with cyclists and you can deal with them easily and comfortably. It's ridiculous to say you stop noticing them - in the dark anyone or anything that needs to be noticed should make themselves as visible as possible. I'm trying, indeed, to think of redundant high viz when it's dark!

cougie

UndercoverElephant wrote:

cougie wrote:

black clad walkers next to a dark hedge dont exactly leap out at you.

If they're going to start doing that, would Hi-Viz help at all?

attica

biondino wrote:

Attica wrote:

I'm not thinking about during the day though.
Also I forgot to mention car lights and street lights - and double that if it's raining at night thanks to the reflection from shiny wet roads.
It doesn't take much for things to stop standing out

But the alternatives to high viz/lights is being invisible!

Last night I was cycling through hyde park and saw a yellow flashing light a couple of hundred yards ahead of me. It was pretty dark otherwise, and I slowed down, wondering what obstacle there might be in my way. I was further confused by the fact it seemed to be moving.

A few seconds later, it became clear it was a cyclist's front light. I'd been thoroughly confused, and told him as he passed that it was the wrong colour.

On the other hand, high viz, and standard red/white lights, are rightly associated with cyclists and you can deal with them easily and comfortably. It's ridiculous to say you stop noticing them - in the dark anyone or anything that needs to be noticed should make themselves as visible as possible. I'm trying, indeed, to think of redundant high viz when it's dark!

I agree in the main, however my original point about high viz on pavement pedestrians 101 extra sorts of road signs and the world and his wife still stands.
Too much of it and the background starts to become high viz.

your example is in Hyde Park, I doubt there are many signs, street lights or car lights or other extraneous high viz stuff.

I've seen cyclists disappear into the melle of a workforce on the pavement further on up the road. admittedly as I got closer the differences in distance resolved themselves, but if that workforce hadn't been all high viz I would have seen the cyclist earlier.

By the way, I've been thinking of this as a motorist, car headlights are an order of magnitude brighter - ergo so are the reflections

Greg T

biondino wrote:

in the dark anyone or anything that needs to be noticed should make themselves as visible as possible.

Unless it's not cool.



You can die of shame as well as Road Traffic Accidents

biondino

God you're right - Tiagra on a recumbent? What the devil is he thinking?!?

MonkeyMonster

Is that what's called a bik(e)ini?

prawny

Greg T wrote:

biondino wrote:

in the dark anyone or anything that needs to be noticed should make themselves as visible as possible.

Unless it's not cool.



You can die of shame as well as Road Traffic Accidents

Oh god look at those socks!

Jay dubbleU

daviesee wrote:

Cafewanda wrote:

Simples: D-lock the dozy female and run down (and over) the ninja. No witnesses

Home for a relaxing shower, meal and wine/beer.

Problem?

Problem?

You have now put yourself in the same bracket as Jeremy Clarkson et all?

How do you feel about that?

Chill - it was a joke for those of you who have had a humourectomy

The Chingford Skinhead

White Horse wrote:

The Chingford Skinhead wrote:

would you insist that pedestrians should all wear lights and reflective clothing between dusk and dawn so drivers can see them when crossing the road?

My daughter's school have been handing out little reflectors to hang from coats or school bags quoting some research from Finland that pedestrians are x times safer when they are wearing reflective clothing than when not. I don't think it's a new concept - If you're out at night - BE SEEN. Why wouldn't someone make the effort to be seen by motorists?

The argument is - Why wouldn't the driver of a ton of heavy machinery make the effort to drive at an appropriate speed and in an appropriate way so that they could see what is on the road ahead? By insisting that the victims of road accidents should be wearing hi-viz or reflective clothing the victim is essentially being made responsible for their safety and the driver absolved of responsibility. That is, I believe, the theory. That said, the number of motorists who can drive into trees and walls in the early hours of the morning at speed, convinces me that I'd rather be seen.

roger_merriman

if going for a night out does any one wear hi-vis? or popping to the shops? or so on?

this said if you do walk wider lanes at night much like bikes don't walk in the gutter you'll merge into the hedge a foot out and you'll be much more visable.

chuckcork

biondino wrote:

Attica wrote:

Add in reflectives on road workers and anybody who has a job near a road and all of a sudden everything is bright and nothing stands out at all.

It's a logical-sounding argument until you realise that actually, everything isn't high viz. Cars aren't, buildings aren't, trees aren't, the vast majority of peds aren't, pavements aren't, walls aren't, roads aren't, parking meters aren't, shop windows aren't, the sky isn't.

A few peds and about half of cyclists and motorcyclists? A drop in the low-contrast, pastel-dominated ocean.

Generally you don't expect buildings, trees, pavements, walls and parking meters to be in the carriageway. Cyclists and other cars yes, but then again thats why cars have lights all over and cyclists should do the same (if they want to live).

The sky, how would you run into that? Knight Rider turbo boost?

biondino

I was talking about the "everything is bright and nothing stands out" point in Attica's post - my point is that bright things (high vizzed cyclists) will stand out against non-bright things (trees, the sky etc).

gatosbastardos

I don't normally like to comment on stuff like this and have been browsing here but not as a member for quite awhile. I commute on bike, in car (1927 model T modified) I also walk to work depends on how I feel. Although I think this hi-vis thing has got out of hand, surely self preservation would want to make you visible, I would never drive at night without lights on that would be suicide and you deserve all you get in my opinion. It's ridiculess to blame the other person for your own ineptitude. I have my car mot'd every year for it's road worthiness and I keep it in top condition for every ones safety, shame people can't be mot'd for their stupidity levels, there would be quite a few less road users......