Car trouble :(

sonny73

Sorry to talk cars on here, but I've had some cracking advice from you chaps before so had to come back for more.

I purchased a second hand 53 plate Peugeot 307 diesel estate a week ago (to fit the bike in for hols etc.) great condition and drives well.

That is until the second day I had it, when I got in it to drive off and noticed that there was an exaggerated tractor noise and in 1st it would go over 10k revs, then in to 2nd and no faster than 25mph with the foot down, 3rd flat again and not over 50mph. Then after about 2 minutes it came to life and was fine.

This has happened several times now from cold, even in 4th entering the motorway it wouldn't go over 60mph :shock:

I contacted the garage, took the car back, they test drove it and surprise, surprise, “we couldn't find anything wrong with it sir, please come in and pick it up asap”

Any ideas on what it could be? I’m going to run it in to my local garage for a check and if it’s bad going to go back to the selling garage to have them sort it under the 3 month warranty.

Mister W

My experience is that cars with engine trouble always have engine trouble. Take it back to the garage and tell them it's not fit for purpose and you want your money back.

gabriel959

And stay away of Peugeots. My 2p!

tri-sexual

under the sale of goods act 1979, a car new or used should be of satiafactory quality and be roadworthy.the standard for assessing this is lower for used rather than a new car but if a SAFETY fault developed soon after purchase its quality may be sub standard for its age (i would argue that a car which does not perform as it should is a serious safety issue which can result in serious injury or death) and the price paid, or may not conform to the information given by the dealer. the dealer may be committing an offence by allowing an unroadworthy car to be driven off his premises.

action plan:

1) contact dealer and explain what happened and how many miles/ length of time you you have driven since you have took delivery of the vehicle. if no joy, as in your case

2) get car independently tested by reputable inspector and get a report of the fault and action needed to rememdy the fault.

3) show dealer the report and remind dealer of his legal obligations under the sale of goods act and negoiate the cost of repairs (if you have 3 month warranty then costs should not apply - but not always)

4)if dealer denies his responsibility, contact local trading standards , explain the problem and ask for help, they should advise you on the action to take

try to keep a diary of all the steps you take: phone calls, times, who you spoke to and what they said, any paperwork etc all this can help in the case of disputes of this type. make duplicates of ALL paperwork and dont give dealer your independent report (if you only have one original copy) you'll be surprised how easily it is lost or the dealer never remembers receiveing it. getting replacements are a real hassle

pedylan

Try googling around for "exhaust gas recirculation pipe"

I had a similar problem earlier this year that at first was intermittent; no power, low revs only. The garage diagnosed it over the phone and replaced above blocked pipe and problem over. It disappeared at first because there is an engine mode to flush it which cures it temporarily.

Without this, there's no turbo boost and hence no power.

Other posts re fitness for purpose are also worth taking note of.

Bloody cars!

GraemeT

Ever heard of mechanical sympathy?

Let it warm up a bit before you thrash it :idea:

Pross

GraemeT wrote:

Ever heard of mechanical sympathy?

Let it warm up a bit before you thrash it :idea:

Where does he say he trashed it? Any car should run without over-revving or failing to accelerate. +1 for getting the EGR valve checked - had that happen twice on my old Audi. Also, if you are in the AA or RAC get them to look it over for an independent check and then take their report back to the garage. This will also give you ammo if they continue to fail to play ball (if they can't find anything wrong either then maybe it's just you and your lack of mechanical sympathy ). Another possibility is an engine management fault as these can put a car in 'limp home' mode. usually nothing wrong but a fault is telling the computer there is.

sonny73

Many thanks for all the replies chaps, it's nice to get some tech info too. Always handy to have a suggestion or 2 when going to the garage!
Cheers

And +1 on Bloody Cars.

skyd0g

When you next take it to the garage, make sure they test it by starting it from cold in order that the fault is duplicated. - possibly arrange to deposit it there the night before (if practical)?

Oska

I'm having a very similar problem with my Volvo V50 (peugeot engine I think) which I bought second hand a couple of months ago. With mine, I'll be driving along and then the power will drop and I lose all acceleration. The only way to correct it is to put it into neutral and try to rev the engine or if that doesn't work, to pull over, switch off and start again.

Same as you, I took it to the garage and they can't find a fault although they think it is something to do with the turbo charger unit or sensor cutting out. Cars are just too darn complicated these days.

If it wasn't for a 165 mile each way commute twice a week, I'd use my bike.

Escargot

Pross wrote:

Where does he say he trashed it?

Sonny73 wrote:

in 1st it would go over 10k revs

I think taking any diesel above 10krpm would be cranking it up slightly

@ Sonny73

There may well be something wrong with a blocked pipe but entering the motorway in 4th and trying to go over 60mph from cold is not a great idea. As Graeme T has suggested a bit of mechanical sympathy is well advised. Especially with a Peugeot.

Ideally you should drive sedately for at least a few miles before opening a car up.

Tonymufc

Diesels get blocked up with sut. Just something to try. When you get to the motorway and if its quiet enough drop it down to 1st gear and red line it then into 2nd and do the same and so on and so on. If it is blocked up with sut you should notice a big plume of BLACK smoke out the back. Then give it a good blast up the motorway.That should clear it out. The problem with diesels is that people don't drive them hard enough so they get blocked up with sut. And for the record I've had Peugeots for years and never had a problem with them. They have one of the best engines on the market.

Cheshley

Had a similar problem on the other half's VW, it needed a new MAF unit and the problem was sorted. Yours sounds like it could be the same problem or could be that the EGR valve is sticking. Either way, with how long you've had the car I'd follow the consumer advice above and make sure the garage either fixes it satisfactorily or gives you a full refund.

deptfordmarmoset

Tonymufc wrote:

Diesels get blocked up with sut. Just something to try. When you get to the motorway and if its quiet enough drop it down to 1st gear and red line it then into 2nd and do the same and so on and so on. If it is blocked up with sut you should notice a big plume of BLACK smoke out the back. Then give it a good blast up the motorway.That should clear it out. The problem with diesels is that people don't drive them hard enough so they get blocked up with sut. And for the record I've had Peugeots for years and never had a problem with them. They have one of the best engines on the market.

Do you need to go through the gears though? It's not a gear problem by the sounds of it. I remember when my diesel was getting a bit high on emissions, my mechanic simply told me to drive a few miles at 60mph in 3rd - with the same reasoning of ''it's a diesel, it needs a good thrashing.'' Anyhow, it worked for mine, but it wasn't a turbo, so I'm not sure that it's going to work on the OP's car.

LangerDan

Escargot wrote:

Pross wrote:

Where does he say he trashed it?

Sonny73 wrote:

in 1st it would go over 10k revs

I think taking any diesel above 10krpm would be cranking it up slightly

.

I think a diesel at 10K revs would have thrown a rod. Just because the tacho "reads" 10k doesnt mean its true

The rev counter is often fed via the ECU - maybe thats acting up, based on erroneous rev readings and buggering up the signals to the injectors/solenoids and trying to inject diesel at the wrong time.

Escargot

LangerDan wrote:

Escargot wrote:

Pross wrote:

Where does he say he trashed it?

Sonny73 wrote:

in 1st it would go over 10k revs

I think taking any diesel above 10krpm would be cranking it up slightly

.

I think a diesel at 10K revs would have thrown a rod. Just because the tacho "reads" 10k doesnt mean its true

The rev counter is often fed via the ECU - maybe thats acting up, based on erroneous rev readings and buggering up the signals to the injectors/solenoids and trying to inject diesel at the wrong time.

LOL I was just taking the pee. There's no way a 307 diesel will have 10krpm on the tacho to even register a reading as the engine hasn't a clue what high revs are (I'm sure it was the OP's typo). Not even the Honda S2000 has 10k on the clock

a_n_t

?

rake

Tonymufc wrote:

Diesels get blocked up with sut. Just something to try. When you get to the motorway and if its quiet enough drop it down to 1st gear and red line it then into 2nd and do the same and so on and so on. If it is blocked up with sut you should notice a big plume of BLACK smoke out the back. Then give it a good blast up the motorway.That should clear it out. The problem with diesels is that people don't drive them hard enough so they get blocked up with sut. And for the record I've had Peugeots for years and never had a problem with them. They have one of the best engines on the market.

Escargot

Don't get me wrong I've fond memories of my 205 and have driven a load of Pugs in my time (hire cars).

Whilst they do some things well producing a decent car is not just about making a good engine and sadly the French did not read the text books when it came to service, reliability and design. The fact that Pugs, Renaults and Citroens are consistently at the bottom of the engineering food chain speaks for itself when compared to Japanese and *some* German cars i.e. BMW pretty much exclusively.

disgruntledgoat

Escargot wrote:

Don't get me wrong I've fond memories of my 205 and have driven a load of Pugs in my time (hire cars).

Whilst they do some things well producing a decent car is not just about making a good engine and sadly the French did not read the text books when it came to service, reliability and design. The fact that Pugs, Renaults and Citroens are consistently at the bottom of the engineering food chain speaks for itself when compared to Japanese and *some* German cars i.e. BMW pretty much exclusively.

+1 on the user friendly stuff... Having to remove the bumper to chage a headlight bulb on the Megane is a pain.

Matt the Tester

possibly the exhaust sensor i know nothing about cars but my mate knows a bit so thats his opinion

beverick

Sonny73 wrote:

...an exaggerated tractor noise and in 1st it would go over 10k revs, then in to 2nd and no faster than 25mph with the foot down, 3rd flat again and not over 50mph. Then after about 2 minutes it came to life and was fine.

This has happened several times now from cold, even in 4th entering the motorway it wouldn't go over 60mph .

Do you get an 'anti-pollution fault' light showing? A quick google seems to show that 307's can suffer from sudden and unexpected loss of power similar to your description when the ECU starts to play up.

That said, it does sound like a fuel mixture problem to me especially as you say it settles down as the engine warms up. It could be a faulty sensor somewhere or, as someone else has mentioned, a blocked/leaking/missing breather (or pipe.

It could be a fuel related problem - poor quality fuel, blocked fuel pipe, faulty pump etc. Also, check the fuel lines for leaks (possibly if it could be taking air in as well as letting fuel out).

Has it got a lot of miles under its belt, if so it could be warn/blocked injectors (you can buy cleaning agents from your local car parts firm). Also, I really don't think you mean 10k revs (unless it has been fitted with a motor bike engine!).

Sonny73 wrote:

I purchased a second hand 53 plate Peugeot 307 diesel estate a week ago (to fit the bike in for hols etc.) great condition and drives well.

Peugeot 307 - drives well. Now there are two phrases that don't usually go in the same sentence.

Homer J

FWIW a mechanic told me peugeot make the best diesel engines

beverick

Homer J wrote:

FWIW a mechanic told me peugeot make the best diesel engines

It depends how you define "diesel", "best" and "Peugeot".

For car engines, BMW are acknowledged as making the most advanced and 'sophisticated' diesel engines, especially there 6 cylinder models. BMW diesels are also fitted to a number of other cars including Land Rovers.

Mercedes are accepted as being leaders in larger bore engines (ie truck and bus) in Europe although some of the independents run them close (Perkins or Cummins).

Your Peugeots diesel engine may actually have been either designed by Ford (in partnership with Mazda) and then built by PSA or built by Ford in the first place. PSA (owners of Peugeot) rely on Ford for many of their diesel engines (the British built 2.2l especially and I believe the 1.4). Some PSA engines are also built by independents.

Bob

Fat Head

Sonny,

When you start it are you waiting for the orange heater coil light to go out? With diesels you must turn the ignition on and wait for the orange light to go out before starting otherwise it can run poorly.

demmerson

beverick wrote:

For car engines, BMW are acknowledged as making the most advanced and 'sophisticated' diesel engines,

If you google "BMW turbo failure" you'll find a lot of disgruntled BMW owners who would not be quite so complimentary.

rake

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Escargot

Proof positive that making a decent engine (if it was even that) is not the be all of making a good car. I think the fate of Rover says it all as the K-series along with most their other stuff was dire indeed.

I think it's old news that BMW drivers are *******'s but agree that their cars are a little out of most people's price range. Quality pays for itself though and I'm sure if you did the math there wouldn't be much difference between a BMW and a Pug when it comes to resale, repair costs etc.

However decent engineering need not be expensive. For a first attempt at a smoke box Honda produced a peach with the i-CTDi. Clean, reliable, economic and best of all non diesel sounding

MattC59

Sounds like either your fuel filter is getting blocked up and restricting flow, the fuel pump is on it's way out, the injectors are filthy and restricting flow, or the turbo isn't functioning properly. It could be that the exhaust feed into the turbo is full of cr*p, ie soot.

Warm it up, coax it up to speed, change down a gear and put your foot down, this should create enough flow to blow the soot through. You'll see a horrible thick cloud in your rear view mirror if this is the case.

If this isn't the case, then I'd put money on it being the fueling system. If the engine sounds rough, it's probably because its labouring to get up to speed (like trying to accellerate in too high a gear). This is often because it simply can't get enough fuel to accellerate the engine.

Hope this helps........ Matt

Tom Butcher

No idea about the OPs problem but bit put out to find Peugeot are supposed to be dogs - I have fond memories of my old 505 Estate - lovely car to drive - and I had a 205 that never gave many problems - well apart from needing a reconditioned gear box fitted but apart from that...

Citroens on the other hand !

Maybe should start a thread on your worst car ever - just so I can nominate the Talbot Rancho.

rake

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