No warranties for second owners

TonyWard

I have only just become aware that many manufacturers's warranties are void once the bike has been bought second hand.

That is an expensive problem for anyone with a broken frame on a relativey new second hand bike. It also reduces the re-sale value (and hence money for upgrades!) for anyone wanting to sell their current bike to buy another new one.

It woudl be better if the manufacturers would stand behind their product and replace frames broken in genuine normal use.

Does anyone have any experience on what manufacturers attitudes are to this issue?

bails87

By buying a bike second hand, you haven't given a penny to the manufacturer, why on earth should they replace the bike when/if it breaks?

If you want a warranty then pay new prices.

frogstomp

bails87 wrote:

By buying a bike second hand, you haven't given a penny to the manufacturer, why on earth should they replace the bike when/if it breaks?

If you want a warranty then pay new prices.

An interesting point.. but playing devil's advocate: if you bought a 6-month old car you would expect the manufacturer to honour the warranty (as they do) wouldn't you?

bails87

Good point, I did think about this as I wrote that post, and I was kind of playing devils advocate myself. It would be nice if they did, but they've got no obligation to. Although some will, or will sell you a replacement frame at cost price.

Are cars unique in that respect? If you bought a TV or washing machine second hand, would the warranty still apply?

Anonymous

ssssh. Don't tell anyone this, but when I snapped a swingarm in a bad crash, I had it replaced by Marin, no questions asked - they didn't bother to check if I was the original owner. I was, and still am the original owner, but they never asked.

Mr bump

I bought a second hand Specialized Enduro and the rear triangle snapped, i was honest and explained that i was not the original owner but i was still sent a new cahinstay free of charge.

frogstomp

bails87 wrote:

Good point, I did think about this as I wrote that post, and I was kind of playing devils advocate myself. It would be nice if they did, but they've got no obligation to. Although some will, or will sell you a replacement frame at cost price.

Are cars unique in that respect? If you bought a TV or washing machine second hand, would the warranty still apply?

I think 'high value' goods (eg. cars, boats, houses) are a special case in this respect.. anything else and the warranty is largely down to the manufacturers discretion and goodwill. What is clear though is that the 'fit for purpose' legal right does not apply once the item is sold on..

robertpb

If you look at it this way, when the new bike is sold the manufacturer sells a warranty with it.

This covers what they deem to be the cost of claims over the period of the warranty.

If they deem that this cost is say £100 then that is added to the price.

Whatever happens to that bike in the period of warranty from a additional purchasers, they still have their money.

So my view is they've had their money, pay up.

bails87

But if they assume that 50% of owners will sell their bike halfway into the warranty period, then they can take 25% off the warranty cost.

If they know that their warranty only covers original owners, then they'll take this into consideration, and reduce the hidden warranty price as a result.

Tempestas

It's written in the small print usually, but I tend to find most people don't send off the warranty cards anyway, I never do...so as long as you get the warranty card and receipt with the purchase of the bike then I would use that. After all, if it is only 6 months old the original owner should have the receipt and warranty card still.

Skonk

While they have no obligation to do it, the fact is they got paid for the frame so should (imo) replace it regardless of who currently owns it.

While an odd few people may then buy second hand where as before, they would have bought new for the warranty; this would be ofset by people getting more for selling their bikes and letting them spend more on new replacements.

Also, I suspect there would also be people who would have bought second hand to save money; who would now buy new knowing that the bike would hold its value better.

nicklouse

Ok lets look at this differently, What pre-used products keep their warranty?

UncleMonty

A 2nd owner will not know the full history of the bike either, has it been maintained / used as per the terms of the warranty

Skonk

nicklouse wrote:

Ok lets look at this differently, What pre-used products keep their warranty?

There are plenty.

An example would be Iiyama, who make computer monitors. They will replace monitors next day via courier (drop replacement off and take broken one away), and the only information they require is the serial number off the back of the monitor and your address.

If the product is over 30 days old, they replace it with a referb, under 30 days they replace with new.

The warranty is on the product, not the person who bought it.

Skonk

UncleMonty wrote:

A 2nd owner will not know the full history of the bike either, has it been maintained / used as per the terms of the warranty

I would agree with this, that for example the first owner could take a frame designed for 160mm forks and slap some 200mm's on; stress out the frame almost to breaking point, put the 160mm's back on and sell it. Second owner runs it with the 160mm's and it breaks due to the previous owners mistake.

But at the end of the day, you could be the first owner and do the same thing have it break but you'd just put the correct forks back on and claim ignorance anyway.

You knowing it's history is pretty meaningless cos even as a first owner you could lie through your teeth about what happened.

It's what the manufacturer thinks that happend (and I guess, can probably prove happend) that counts and you being the one who bought the bike new or not makes no difference to this.

If they think the frame was mis-used they will say so and not replace it, whether you owned it from new or not.

nicklouse

Skonk wrote:

nicklouse wrote:

Ok lets look at this differently, What pre-used products keep their warranty?

There are plenty.

An example would be Iiyama, who make computer monitors. They will replace monitors next day via courier (drop replacement off and take broken one away), and the only information they require is the serial number off the back of the monitor and your address.

If the product is over 30 days old, they replace it with a referb, under 30 days they replace with new.

The warranty is on the product, not the person who bought it.

reading their warranty info it seems to be for the original purchaser only.

tri-sexual

nicklouse wrote:

Ok lets look at this differently, What pre-used products keep their warranty?

hyundai cars gives their cars a 5 year warranty on their cars
this applies to their cars and not the owner, its also unlimited mileage warranty

The Rookie

As a warranty is at the manufacturers discretion, they can choose the tersm and conditions they put in, however there are 2 other factors to consider

1/ 'Merchantable quality' if an item is not of that quality you're entitled to your money back, 2nd hand parts can be tricky but if you make the claim of the first owner who likewise claims from the seller, then there can be a case

2/ PR, if its a major safety related failure, most manufacturers will bend over backwards to keep it QT!

This relates to anything in general, not just bikes.

Simon

bomberesque

yeah, indeed many car manufacturers do offer transferable warrantees. However new car sales are heavily linked heavily to resale values, which is not (so much) the case with most other products. Did you ever decide to buy one bike over another because you'd get a better second hand price for it? Some may have done but I'd bet it's far from common. Very few bikes keep their value better than the norm, whatever the warranty etc.

A transferable warranty is a nice idea, but converse to the "they could make the bike cheaper" argument, bike companies could instead argue that they already factor in the discounted cost brought about by bikes dropping out of warranty early after second hand sales so making the warranties transferable would cause costs to go up and so prices would have to rise with it.

Given the abuse that many moutainbikes suffer, I'm surprised that so many companies offer long warranties on their kit. Many bike component companies will also provide service technically out of warranty (like ignoring the fact that you're not the original owner). Sadly many bikes and bits sold in the UK (OK, outside North America) are warranted through distributors and they tend to be a lot more hard nosed than the original manufacturers who have more of an interest in the reputation of their product than a distributor with '00s of different brands on their books.

supersonic

Your contract of sale lies with the retailer - the manufacturer is not required to deal with you direct and if they do so is at their discretion. If a part fails, the retailer contacts the manufacturer if is a fault - but even then the shop may offer you more depending on the contract of sale.

Some retailers that sell second hand goods will offer a limited warranty. That does not mean the manufacturer will replace any goods.

Macster1

Apple Computer also provide warranty with the machine and not who owns it. I have a Mac with 3 year warranty and that goes with the machine.

I do think they [manufacturers] should honour the first 12 months regardless if it was bought second hand or not.

I bought my Rockhopper Pro when it was 2 days old and the guy I got it from said he would be happy to go to the store if their were any issues in future [bike has been fine mind]

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Skonk

nicklouse wrote:

Skonk wrote:

nicklouse wrote:

Ok lets look at this differently, What pre-used products keep their warranty?

There are plenty.

An example would be Iiyama, who make computer monitors. They will replace monitors next day via courier (drop replacement off and take broken one away), and the only information they require is the serial number off the back of the monitor and your address.

If the product is over 30 days old, they replace it with a referb, under 30 days they replace with new.

The warranty is on the product, not the person who bought it.

reading their warranty info it seems to be for the original purchaser only.

When I owned a pair of Vision Master Pro 454's a couple of years ago, I had them both replaced several times due to faults was told that proof of purchase was not needed since the warranty was on the product, not the person.

They only ever asked for a code from the back, which let them date it.

They may have changed tact since going totally into LCD screens though; these were CRT's and it was a few years back.

I dont think it's un-reasonable to expect a manufacturer to fix problems with their products if they are still within the warranty period regardless of who currently owns it, providing the fault is clearly a fault, and not caused by mis-use.

It's obviously just a way of saving them money but a good warranty can be the deciding factor for a lot of people when buying new goods.

Northwind

bails87 wrote:

By buying a bike second hand, you haven't given a penny to the manufacturer, why on earth should they replace the bike when/if it breaks?

For the sake of argument- the original buyer has paid for a year or 2 year's warranty, why should the company not honour that? Warranties aren't a free gift, they're paid for just the same as the part itself.

Incidentally, Halfords- officially Home of Crap Customer Service- have honoured several warranty claims from me over the years, on second hand bike and on first-hand bikes outwith the warranty period

robertpb

This is some thing I didn't know.

In law you have a responsibility to your customer for up to six years from the date of purchase (in Scotland, five years from discovery of the problem). During this period, you are legally obliged to deal with any claim of breach of contract.

supersonic

It is just a time period for a claim. Given that most guarantees are one year, I am not sure why anybody would take that long!

robertpb

Supersonic

I was just looking at it from the point of view that sometimes something packs up, you don't need it for a year or so, then you drag it out and realise it doesn't work, too late the warranties up, bin it.

This says that a claim can still be made, that's useful.

supersonic

You still need to prove that the goods failed within the warranty period though.

The exception to this is goods lasting a 'reasonable amount of time' which throws up some conundrums!

bails87

Skonk wrote:

It's obviously just a way of saving them money but a good warranty can be the deciding factor for a lot of people when buying new goods.

When you're buying it new you'll get the warranty..........

And when you buy something second hand, you are the customer of the original owner, they were a customer of a shop.....it carries on through importers, distributers, suppliers etc before you get to the original manufacturer.


Slightly different, but in an old job, I used to get the odd phone call from customers (general public, not trade) and occasionally they'd be after a refund, they never seemed to understand that we didn't have their money! We sell the product to a distributor, who sells it to a chain, who sells it to a customer. We could give them back the money we got for the product, but they'd be disappointed with the amount they'd have got!

Skonk

bails87 wrote:

Skonk wrote:

It's obviously just a way of saving them money but a good warranty can be the deciding factor for a lot of people when buying new goods.

When you're buying it new you'll get the warranty..........

The warranty isn't always the same though. There is a minimum they have to do but some companies will go a little further (duration of the cover, turn around time on repair or replacement, courier services for pickup etc).

This can influence your descision as to whether to buy or not.

bails87

Yes, I agree, but the fact that the warranty applies to all owners, not just the original is pretty irrelevant to the original buyer.

Skonk

bails87 wrote:

Yes, I agree, but the fact that the warranty applies to all owners, not just the original is pretty irrelevant to the original buyer.

No it is relevant if it has an effect on the re-sale value of the product and the warranty being transferable would have this effect in my oppinion.

I've sold 3 bikes, that I bought from new and all 3 were still within the warranty period but the warranties wern't transferable. Had they been, I would have been able to use it as a selling point and most likely got a better price for them (and dont forget, I didnt get the warranty for free, it was all part of the price I paid).

In the end, I said that if anything major failed on them, that they could bring the bike back and I would take it back to the shop to be fixed.

But that could potentially cause me a lot of hassle and isn't as good as them being able to do it them selves (though it helped get the sales because it reassured the buyer to some degree).

Obviously, if you are intending to keep the bike for several years then it may have no effect but if you think there is a chance that you would want to sell it within a year then it could be a factor to consider.