Martial Law in Cumbria?

Cressers

Heard yesterday on the news " ...and the army are protecting homes in Cockermouth...".

This may be just garbled reporting, of which there is a lot at the moment, or could it mean that the army are helping to reinforce flood defences and providing structural support for flood damaged buildings? That they are operating under the Military Aid To Civil Power arrangements? Or are thay enforcinng cordons and involved in law and order issues? If so, under what laws and Rules of Engagement are they operating?

Can someone enlighten me?

N0bodyOfTheGoat

News seemed rather alarmist last night, talking about all the county's bridges being structurally tested for fear of collapse from this weather!

Cressers

Apparently Brown 'ordered ' that inspection.

Oh really? Is there nothing that he won't stick his nose into or try to profit from?

disgruntledgoat

I live in Cockermouth, and the reality is that 90% of the people in the town haven't suffered any damamge or loss, just inconvinience. Still, the centre is a wreck. My friends still can't get to their house.

The Army are there because there just aren't enough POlice in the area to police every bridge and road closure and ensure nobody goes into a building that hasn't been structurally assessed to reclaim their possessions. They're there to stop any looting before it starts too.

In WOrkington last night, there were kids running onto bridges that have been closed pending inspection, to get the police to chase them. Methinks the army will be less polite than the rozzers have to be in dealing with them.

As for the inspections.. I think we could probably limit it it those rivers that were flooded badly. I can think of two well-used road bridges with problems.. one has a big crack in it and the other has a car wedged under it.

passout

I used to live in the Lakes, my folks still do. It seems to me that only a few places have been really unlucky & clearly they need governmental support - certainly with the infrastructure.

I now live in Preston and I went to Barton Grange Garden Centre on the weekend. Anyway, they were already collecting with buckets for the 'Cumbria floods' - that was quick! I didn't give anything because I'm a bit credit crunched and everyone I know in the Lakes if far richer for me! Although in fairness I think Workington needed all the help it could get, even before the flood!

I kind of feel sorry for Carlisle though. When they were flooded, I don't remember such a collection. Also there seemed to be less media attention. Not sure why....

It was tragic about that PC. I think that's the real story here.

BigG67

Back with the OP, it's a good point.

I'd always been given to believe that to have the armed forces carry out policing duties was a HUGE deal. I worked at the last G8 and while I'm sure there were some hidden in the hills the only military personel on show were the pilots for the US contingent - they used Marine 1 and some Green Goddesses to transport their team - and the 3 guys from Leuchers manning the helicopter landing zone as ground control.

All security was Police and I thought it needed a specific act of Gov to have military police it's own citizens.

disgruntledgoat

BigG67 wrote:

Back with the OP, it's a good point.

I'd always been given to believe that to have the armed forces carry out policing duties was a HUGE deal. I worked at the last G8 and while I'm sure there were some hidden in the hills the only military personel on show were the pilots for the US contingent - they used Marine 1 and some Green Goddesses to transport their team - and the 3 guys from Leuchers manning the helicopter landing zone as ground control.

All security was Police.

I think the only policing work they're doing is checking houses for occupants and manning bridges at this stage. There's only 25 of them at any rate adn they aren't armed.

Aggieboy

Cressers wrote:

Apparently Brown 'ordered ' that inspection.

Oh really? Is there nothing that he won't stick his nose into or try to profit from?

He thought he'd copy Blair. He heard there had been Weather of Mass Destruction.

Anonymous

passout wrote:

I used to live in the Lakes, my folks still do. It seems to me that only a few places have been really unlucky & clearly they need governmental support - certainly with the infrastructure.

I now live in Preston and I went to Barton Grange Garden Centre on the weekend. Anyway, they were already collecting with buckets for the 'Cumbria floods' - that was quick! I didn't give anything because I'm a bit credit crunched and everyone I know in the Lakes if far richer for me! Although in fairness I think Workington needed all the help it could get, even before the flood!

I kind of feel sorry for Carlisle though. When they were flooded, I don't remember such a collection. Also there seemed to be less media attention. Not sure why....

It was tragic about that PC. I think that's the real story here.

Wouldn't they be best to send the buckets instead ?

Cressers

And are you all, as I am, seething at the 'Live from Cockermouth Main Street' news overload? FFS the last thing that the unfortunates need is to have the news vultures swooping or politicians adding their oily sheen to the floodwaters...

disgruntledgoat

Cressers wrote:

And are you all, as I am, seething at the 'Live from Cockermouth Main Street' news overload? FFS the last thing that the unfortunates need is to have the news vultures swooping or politicians adding their oily sheen to the floodwaters...

They've been moaning all weekend about "access" and the inhospitable nature of the town. We must try harder next time we turn it into a theatre for meeja types.

My friends lost their house and still haven't got in... They were trying to see what they could yesterday when one of the ghouls saw she was crying and stuffed a camera right in her face.

They'll forget about us soon enough though.

Cressers

Here's hoping that you and your friends are as OK as you can be under the circumstances, and that soon one of those news vultures gets what they deserve.

disgruntledgoat

Just been told that Main Street is open again so people can finally get into their houses and shops. That's a step in the right direction!

geoff_ss

Cressers wrote:

Apparently Brown 'ordered ' that inspection.

Oh really? Is there nothing that he won't stick his nose into or try to profit from?

He really can't win can he?

If he ignores it he's heartless; if he doesn't he's cashing in on other people's tragedy.

In practice I suspect he didn't 'order' it but the local authorities decided it would be a wise move to assess potential damage. Seems a sensible move IMO. A lot of the bridges in the Lakes are old stone structures that have been subjected to unprecedented stresses if reports are to be believed.

Moreover I seem to remember Thatcher wasn't averse to cashing in on other people's disasters. It's what politicians do; it's part of the job, like the King and Queen visiting the East End in WW2.

Geoff

softlad

Geoff_SS wrote:

In practice I suspect he didn't 'order' it but the local authorities decided it would be a wise move to assess potential damage. Seems a sensible move IMO. A lot of the bridges in the Lakes are old stone structures that have been subjected to unprecedented stresses if reports are to be believed.

I'm sure that's correct, given that Brown is a politician and not a structural engineer. But why then was it presented as 'news' that Brown had ordered the review. He really doesn't help himself - or rather his media advisers don't....

ColinJ

passout wrote:

I kind of feel sorry for Carlisle though. When they were flooded, I don't remember such a collection. Also there seemed to be less media attention. Not sure why....

There was a woman on the news yesterday from the organisation organising the current collection. She said that they raised £800,000 for victims of the Carlisle floods. Report here.

passout

ColinJ wrote:

passout wrote:

I kind of feel sorry for Carlisle though. When they were flooded, I don't remember such a collection. Also there seemed to be less media attention. Not sure why....

There was a woman on the news yesterday from the organisation organising the current collection. She said that they raised £800,000 for victims of the Carlisle floods. Report here.

Interesting link - thanks. Apparently they have raised £300,000 already this time round are are expecting over a million.

pottssteve

I believe the population of Bangladesh are having a whip round... Jeez, the UK's turned into a Third World Country.....

disgruntledgoat

pottssteve wrote:

I believe the population of Bangladesh are having a whip round... Jeez, the UK's turned into a Third World Country.....

Clearly, you've never been to Workington.

TheBoyBilly

Mr Brown has far more important issues to deal with, like Katey Price's public humiliation on 'I'm a Celebrity'. In your own time Gordon, in your own time........

deptfordmarmoset

When I first heard the bridges in Cockermouth were out of action, the first story was that it was a 50 mile journey to get to the other side. Later this figure became 40 and I've just heard it put at 20 miles. Just how far is it?

Cressers

As bridges are inspected and passed as safe to use the length of the detour will reduce.

But 4 inches (100mm) of rain is forecast to fall in the area today.

disgruntledgoat

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

When I first heard the bridges in Cockermouth were out of action, the first story was that it was a 50 mile journey to get to the other side. Later this figure became 40 and I've just heard it put at 20 miles. Just how far is it?

Saturday night was the worst... They closed every bridge over the Derwent. A guy I work with wen to Workington for some shopping and they were closed behind him. That meant he had to go to Penrith (45 miles), up the M6 to Carlisle (15 miles) and then back to Cockermouth from there (30 miles).

There's one bridge open across the derwent at the moment, so you can get pretty much anywhere. It's probably just over 20 miles from one side of Workington to the other though. That wouldn't be a problem, but the bit that's cut off is the bit where the council house the addicts, single mothers, unemployed, elderly etc so nobody has a car... and they don't have any amenities on that side either. Even the phone lines are down so they can't opt to order food online and let Tesco figure it out.

solsurf

I live in Staveley many of you will know of it from the shop Wheelbase and its great access to the Kentmere valley.

Anyway many of the residents have been effected one of my friends stopped the water coming through the front door only to find it coming up through his kitchen floor. So he gave up turned the electricity off and went to the pub.

I feel very sorry for those that have businesses that are also their residence.

As well as the road bridges many foot bridges have been damaged or are just not there we are currently checking over 250 bridges many in remote locations. Footpath and Bridle path damage is very bad in places.

disgruntledgoat

As an aside, my mates got back in their house yesterday and measured the tidemark at 6'2 in the frontroom. The water came both from the derwent at the back and the merged derwent and cocker at the front.

We helped them shift all their stuff upstairs the night before, as they only got sorted from last Septembers flood in March, so there wasn't a lot of damage to possessions. Surviving items from downstairs included the Christmas Cake, hair straighteners and theHomepride Fred thing with the mixing bowl hat, rolling pin arm etc.

Cressers

You'd hope that they'd be able to quickly repair the damaged Workington footbridge, at least that would be some form of walking/cycling link to essential services.

deptfordmarmoset

Thanks for the info, disgruntledgoat. It sounds like you got some really seriously angry water back then. Hope there's no second wave.

Anonymous

Cant understand why the Army are not throwing some MGB bridges as a stopgap. They dont take long, about 12 hours start to finish with trackway and guidance. They would have to be manned though. Built them all the time in Germany and UK.

disgruntledgoat

dmclite wrote:

Cant understand why the Army are not throwing some MGB bridges as a stopgap. They dont take long, about 12 hours start to finish with trackway and guidance. They would have to be manned though. Built them all the time in Germany and UK.

They have to wait for the waters to go down to normal level (weekend probably) before they can assess the stability of the banks and whether the riverbed is stable enough to support the piers that are needed, i'm told. They may have to construct concrete emplacements to ensure the banks of the river can support the bridges.

Although, as Father Goat pointed out on the way in this morning, tehy didnt know any of those thigns when they bridged the Rhine and that's a lot bigger.

passout

Just spoke to my Dad who lives in Grange, a friend of his was nearly the 2nd victim of the floods. My Dad heard this through another friend, so I haven't got all the details. He was crossing a beck that runs into Windermere in his 4x4 when the electrics went. He was stuck inside - thanks to electric windows - as water poured in. He broke a window to get out but his leg some how got trapped. He could only keep his head above water by holding onto the rear door handle. An old bloke heard his cries, leapt in (up to his neck at some points) and managed to free him - both were OK. Some AA guys, passing later, then managed to somehow rescue his dog out the back before the vehicle started to move off downstream. I think it might of been Cunsey beck for those who know the area - normally of no consequence at all. I'm not sure why that (local) guy was crossing the beck but I guess it was to do with looking after animals. That old guy though - what a hero! I wander if it makes the press?