Lightweight Handbuilt wheels

bigal.

I am looking into having a set of wheels built for my TCR Advanced and needed advice or opinion on what components to use in an effort to get the wheels as light as possible.

I am no wheelbuilding expert so really wanted to find out which rim, hub and spoke type people would recommend to ultimately build a superlight set of handbuilt wheels if that is possible. I have had a look at the Hope Pro 3 hubs which seem to be one of the lightest along with the Ambrosia Excellight rims but am open to suggestions if someone can suggest better/lighter. Any spoke help would be appreciated as I have not looked into these yet.

Anonymous

Spokes - Sapim CX-Ray.
Hubs - Tune or Royce or PMP
Rims - IRD Cadence Niobium.

Or, just give this guy a ring!!!

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/wheelprices.htm

markos1963

Give these guys a ring/look, from whats posted on this forum you won't go far wrong
http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/index.htm

markos1963

NapoleonD wrote:

Spokes - Sapim CX-Ray.
Hubs - Tune or Royce or PMP
Rims - IRD Cadence Niobium.

Or, just give this guy a ring!!!

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/wheelprices.htm

Bugger you beat me to it :evil:

Chip \'oyler

+1 for Derek at Wheelsmith

Depending on your budget you could replace the hub suggestions above with some dirty filthy Italian porn - ie Extralite hubs (hubba hubba)

http://www.extralite.com/Products/ultrahubs_anglo.htm

bigal.

Thanks for the replies so far.

I like the look of the Extralite hubs along with the Sapim CX-ray spokes but am a little unsure of the IRD Cadence Niobium rims purely due to some of the negative comments found when you research various forums on line.

Is this due to poor wheel building?

NapoleonD- Do you own a set of the IRD rims and if so I assume you dont have any issues with them.

Out of curiousity what number of spokes would you recommend for the front and back?

Chip \'oyler

IRD Cadence Niobium rims are basically Kinlin rims re-badged, Kinlin have a good reputation.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showth ... p?t=178396

http://www.roadbikereview.com/mfr/liger ... 90crx.aspx


As long as they're well built then they should be a superb wheel

balthazar

I expect the best rims to be eyeleted and socketed. This means that the load from spoke tension is divided between the spoke bed and the inner rim bed (both long sides of the rim box-section). Rim failure around spoke apertures is moderately common, and spoke sockets go some way to preventing it. However, it is cheaper to eyelet a simple extrusion, hence this is how most are made.

The only rims I'm aware of that are still eyeleted and socketed are Mavic Open Pro and Ambrosio/Torelli (various models). Marketing apart, I don't think there's anything between them in quality. Ambrosio are rarer, consequently they have 'cool' factor on their side. Those IRD rims are not socketed and for that reason I'd stay away.

bigal.

Are Ambrosia Excellight rims socketed??

balthazar

bigal. wrote:

Are Ambrosia Excellight rims socketed??

Yep:



I could do without the anodizing, the welding and the superfluous machining, but I think these rims are about as good as any available. I'd build my wheels with Open Pros because they come in silver, though, personally.

Edit: all that said, if any body knows where to get hold of Torelli Triumph rims in gold, please tell me. I'm slightly craving some. (I think they're rebadged Ambrosio rims)

leloby

balthazar wrote:

I expect the best rims to be eyeleted and socketed. This means that the load from spoke tension is divided between the spoke bed and the inner rim bed (both long sides of the rim box-section). Rim failure around spoke apertures is moderately common, and spoke sockets go some way to preventing it. However, it is cheaper to eyelet a simple extrusion, hence this is how most are made.

The only rims I'm aware of that are still eyeleted and socketed are Mavic Open Pro and Ambrosio/Torelli (various models). Marketing apart, I don't think there's anything between them in quality. Ambrosio are rarer, consequently they have 'cool' factor on their side. Those IRD rims are not socketed and for that reason I'd stay away.

Not quite true really. Some of the strongest rims available are completely un-eyeleted. It depends entirely on the section of the extrusion and the quality of the aluminium. If the nipple bed is thick enough then you don't need eyelets. Gigantex carbon tubular rims have an 8mm thick bed, no eyelets and can take 130kgf in spoke tension quite easily, they don't crack, are immensely strong and can be built as stiff as you like. At the other end of the pice spectrum, Ridida Flyers are about 500g, v(ish) section, no eyelets and are also really strong rims. About £10 each too! IRD Cadence Aero rims also have no eyelets, are 30mm deep and are about the same weight as an Ambrosio Excellight.


The IRD Cadence rims are around the 390g mark, single eyeleted and don't crack - contrary to scaremongering on at least 1 forum I've read. They won't however take winter cruddy training and 15 stone guys with panniers. Think about your yearly mileage, weight, style and budget and buy with at least this in mind. If you buy superlight wheels, keep a budget for repairs and replacement components because no matter how well they are built, superlight componnts WILL let you down if you push them beyond their call of duty. And if you race them, remember that you won't see the potholes like you will if you are out on your own. 390g rims don't like potholes.

balthazar

I agree that rims can be made strong enough by making the spoke bed much thicker – that's obvious. Alternatively a lighter rim is possible, which takes advantage of its box section to support the spoke tension with both walls.

If the spoke bed in those rims you describe is as thin in section as good socketed rims such as MA2 and Open Pro, I would not trust them in use. In any case, even if you disagree on that point, which I suppose could only be determined with failure rate data – I can't imagine why anybody would prefer them. The development of rim sockets was not arbitrary.

gelbvieh

Tune mig/mag, DT Swiss R 1.1 rims, DT aero spokes. Just under 1350g for the pair.

Cranks

Roadace use the IRD rims, Steve the builder is an ex-gb racer so worth chatting to him. www.roadacecomponents.co.uk

bigal.

After a fair bit of on line research and of course advice from this forum I have decided on the following.

Ambrosia Excellight Rims
Sapim Cx-Ray spokes
Extralight Ultra SX Hubs

Thanks for the advice.

Chip \'oyler

bigal. wrote:

After a fair bit of on line research and of course advice from this forum I have decided on the following.

Ambrosia Excellight Rims
Sapim Cx-Ray spokes
Extralight Ultra SX Hubs

Thanks for the advice.

Nice choice sir

cal_stewart

without being rude, whats the weight and price on them? whos building them

bigal.

I have worked out the weight for the rims, hubs & spokes at 1263 grams although this has been worked out by each individual brand website so it could well be a liitle off.

I have not etsablished a cost yet and am looking at either Wheelsmith or Wheelcraft to build them. Wheelcraft is my local builder (Big Al) near Lennoxtown who has build me a set of wheeels before and has an excellent reputation.

leloby

I find the very latest Open Pros (summer onwards) are a poor alternative to Excellights. The extrusion is more variable and the spoke tension variance around the joint means they are less stable in use.

Hubs wise, you'll need to go with the SL for 28h or 32h and an SR rear. The SX front is only 16-24h and the SX rear is for straight-pull spokes which are unavailable in the UK. Won't add much weight but remember that the Excellight rims are only 28h or 32h. The SX is a step too far I reckon - it has a plastic bushing in the freehub. Also, the SL front is designed for MTB so should last longer - bigger bearings and only about 10g heavier. It'll take radial lacing and has decent sealing. Extralite are not big-mileage hubs though so bear that in mind.

Unless you are going for really light rims too, you'd be better with something more sensible at the hubs - you won't feel the difference whilst riding - believe me.

Let us know what Big Al at the village of the damned says. When he hears the words 'super' and 'light' he usually tells you he only makes touring and tandem wheels nowadays

Anonymous

bigal. wrote:

I have worked out the weight for the rims, hubs & spokes at 1263 grams although this has been worked out by each individual brand website so it could well be a liitle off.

I have not etsablished a cost yet and am looking at either Wheelsmith or Wheelcraft to build them. Wheelcraft is my local builder (Big Al) near Lennoxtown who has build me a set of wheeels before and has an excellent reputation.

Don't forget nipples.

Harry182

NapoleonD wrote:

Don't forget nipples.

That was my ex's motto.

top_bhoy

bigal. wrote:

I have not etsablished a cost yet and am looking at either Wheelsmith or Wheelcraft to build them. Wheelcraft is my local builder (Big Al) near Lennoxtown who has build me a set of wheeels before and has an excellent reputation.

As you are aware, Big Al will give you direct unbiased advice on the suitability of your selected combination for your purpose and any pitfalls of the selected components he has came up aaginst.

bigal.

Just for the record I have ordered a set of IRD Cadence Nobium rims, Sapim CX-Ray spokes and PMP hubs through Derek at Wheelsmith. After a few chats with Derek I decided on the above to try to strike a balance between weight and reliability. Really nice bloke as well as being helpful and having a vast knowledge of wheels.

Looking forward to getting my new wheels now.

NapoleonD- Looks like you were spot on with your advice.

Anonymous

Hope you enjoy them! We need to see pics when done...

I may have to use your last line as my signature

benjboy

I also ordered a set of wheels from derek at wheelsmith Mainly from recommendations on this forum .Went with Ambrosio Excellight rims,Dura ace hubs and Sapim laser spokes, Derek thought this was a good choice for what i wanted the wheels for.I had a totally different set up in mind but derek is the man in the know about wheels.Thanks every one on here for all your good advice.