Which groupset for a classic colnago masters

finnj6
finnj6 Posts: 45
edited November 2009 in Road buying advice
Hi I have a classic colnago masters which I'm going to get restored and rebuild. I'm looking at parts to buy for it and need some advice. The frame will be painted in it's original new blue. The bike will be used for fun and training doubt I'll race it, well maybe once for the fun.

I've decided to go with Campag for the groupset, I'm looking at either Athena 11sp or Centuar 10sp. From what I've heard Athena is much worse then Centuar but it is placed just below Chorus on the campag website?

Will carbon fibre parts look bad on an old frame, my thinking is it has to be metal and shiney. Has anyone pics the could send me if they've restored an old frame. If carbon looks good I could spring for Chorus.

Which wheels would be good again thinking shiney, should they be factory built or hand built? What would be good hubs?

Lastly where will I get alluminium brake leavers, and downtube shifters carbon or alluminium? They don't seem to be in the campag range anymore.
Lappiere X-Control 210
Columbus X-Wing
Fuji track
Treck 1500 with Campag
Soon to be Colnago Masters

Comments

  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Is the bike for riding or for looking at?
    I like bikes...

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  • APIII
    APIII Posts: 2,010
    There's a photo in C+ this month of a DeRosa with the Athena groupset. IMO it looks awful on a classically styled frame.
    I would have a look at GB cycles wesbite You can get alu Record chainsets for as little as £60 and would suit your frame a lot better than the modern UT versions.
  • finnj6
    finnj6 Posts: 45
    Is the bike for riding or for looking at?

    It's for a bit of both, I want it to look good but still be fun to ride. The frame has been in my family since new and has made it's way to me. I'm 22 and it's a bit older then me. I want to do it justice so it will be used regularly, I don't like the idea of something that was designed to be used being left in a shed to be looked at.
    There's a photo in C+ this month of a DeRosa with the Athena groupset. IMO it looks awful on a classically styled frame.
    I would have a look at GB cycles wesbite You can get alu Record chainsets for as little as £60 and would suit your frame a lot better than the modern UT versions.

    Thanks I'll have a look ath that site and try and pick up a copy of C+ and see it for myself
    Lappiere X-Control 210
    Columbus X-Wing
    Fuji track
    Treck 1500 with Campag
    Soon to be Colnago Masters
  • Camion
    Camion Posts: 60
    I just did the same on a red 1980s Colnago Master. Wheels were made by Derek at Wheelsmith. Not a cheap project but goes almost as well as my Carbon Extreme Power. Don't know how this will paste over from XL but:

    F+F Colnago Super 1980s DA H/S 58cm 215.00
    Wheels Ambrosio Excellight SSC 28/32 360.00
    sapim cx ray with brass nipples
    Ambrosio
    Stem Cinelli Quill 1" 19.00
    Post Campagnolo Super Record 27mm 64.00
    Saddle Wrights leather saddle 150mm 37.00
    Tape Fizik microtex white 9.87
    Front Derailleur Campagnolo Comp triple braze on 37.00
    Rear derailluer Campagnolo Super Record 8 sp record 79.63
    Chainset Campagnolo Super Record 30/42/53 172.5mm 69.99
    BB Campagnolo Record 111mm Italian 63.61
    Gear shifters Campagnolo Syncros 2 8 speed 25.00
    Brake levers Campagnolo Super Record Colnago pantographed 100.00
    Cassette Campagnolo Veloce 9 speed 13/26 35.00
    Chain X9L gold 9 speed 30.00
    Brake outer Goodyear White 4m 16.00
    Brake cables Inners and ends 3 x Campag transfil 10.00
    Brakes Campagnolo C Record Delta 226.00
    Tyres Vittoria Pave Evo CX 700x24 61.00
    Bars Cinelli chrome Giro D'Italia 16.00
    [/img]
    Colnago Extreme Power - Dura Ace
    1980s Colnago Master Steel - Super Record Delta
    Brompton M3L-X Raleigh Nitro MTB
    1981 Viscount Sport Orange Evo 8 single speed
    Specialized Langster Carerra Subway zero
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Given that it's a classic bike, I'd try to stick with polished alloy where possible - perhaps even going for polished lever Ergos like Chorus or even Record. I'm still running some a 1994 Chorus 9 speed drivetrain on one bike and can vouch for the durability of the parts. I don't know where you picked up the perception that Athena is inferior to Centaur - on most accounts it has no problems - the biggest concern was that it didn't have polished alloy levers to suit the trend for classic-looking bikes like yours. If you're a real enthusiast you could always fit a contemporary groupset for the frame, but the prices that 80's parts fetch on ebay are not far off the modern stuff.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Given that it's a classic bike, I'd try to stick with polished alloy where possible - perhaps even going for polished lever Ergos like Chorus or even Record. I'm still running some a 1994 Chorus 9 speed drivetrain on one bike and can vouch for the durability of the parts. I don't know where you picked up the perception that Athena is inferior to Centaur - on most accounts it has no problems - the biggest concern was that it didn't have polished alloy levers to suit the trend for classic-looking bikes like yours. If you're a real enthusiast you could always fit a contemporary groupset for the frame, but the prices that 80's parts fetch on ebay are not far off the modern stuff.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Given that it's a classic bike, I'd try to stick with polished alloy where possible - perhaps even going for polished lever Ergos like Chorus or even Record. I'm still running some a 1994 Chorus 9 speed drivetrain on one bike and can vouch for the durability of the parts. I don't know where you picked up the perception that Athena is inferior to Centaur - on most accounts it has no problems - the biggest concern was that it didn't have polished alloy levers to suit the trend for classic-looking bikes like yours. If you're a real enthusiast you could always fit a contemporary groupset for the frame, but the prices that 80's parts fetch on ebay are not far off the modern stuff.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Camion
    Camion Posts: 60
    I agree, see my inventory above, admittedly I went for NOS (new old stock) record levers that were also etched with colnago and italian colours and the record delta brake set looks the mutts nuts but is very pricey and don't stop you like modern brakes do.

    I could probably have dome the wheels more cheaply but I wanted them like the Paris Roubaix riders use.

    Looks great too.
    Colnago Extreme Power - Dura Ace
    1980s Colnago Master Steel - Super Record Delta
    Brompton M3L-X Raleigh Nitro MTB
    1981 Viscount Sport Orange Evo 8 single speed
    Specialized Langster Carerra Subway zero
  • finnj6
    finnj6 Posts: 45
    Ye Im in agreement with the polished alloy look until I see a pic with carbon and it looks good. I wont be going with original parts for cost reasons (I can get new campag quite cheaply), although the break levers and downtube shifters. will have to be NOS id say, but I still have the original levers the just need to be restored there a bit banged up Id imagine it would be too much effort and cost too much.

    Monty, I'm not a real enthusiast not yet anyway. I got the idea about Athena from word of mouth and asking around. What is the difference? other then 11sp and 10sp. The shifters and levers arn't a concern since I'll be using NOS ones.

    Camion would you be able to post a pic of yours to see how it turned out, and just get a better idea of what parts you used and your wheels sound interesting I'd love a pic of them too :D Also I noticed your running 8sp was there any reason to this? I was going to use 10sp because thats what a new groupset is. I thought my only problem would be the shifters, am I overlooking something?
    Lappiere X-Control 210
    Columbus X-Wing
    Fuji track
    Treck 1500 with Campag
    Soon to be Colnago Masters
  • Camion
    Camion Posts: 60
    I only ran 8sp as that is the highest number of indexed gears I could use on the downtube shifters (synchro II) and I wanted original chromed record rear derailleur and apparently they didnt make a 9sp. All 10sp record are carbon and I wanted to stay away from carbon as it prob wasn't invented in the 80s.

    Re downtube shifters, I got from Ebay USA and they werent too pricey, I think they still make some but you'd have to search web. Its amazing the difference they make, def not as safe as STI and having a non indexed front derrailleur also takes a bit of getting used to as I went triple so I could get up my local hills. I've since realised, I've gained no less gear inches than on the current compact 10sp set ups!

    How do I post an image? I could email you?
    Colnago Extreme Power - Dura Ace
    1980s Colnago Master Steel - Super Record Delta
    Brompton M3L-X Raleigh Nitro MTB
    1981 Viscount Sport Orange Evo 8 single speed
    Specialized Langster Carerra Subway zero
  • finnj6
    finnj6 Posts: 45
    Ye that would be great if you emailed me a pic, my e-mail is in my profile details. To post an image you need to find somwhere to host the image like picasa or photo bucket and then place a link to the photo inside the img tags.

    I'll def be looking for the downtube shifters. It's one of they few things I'm set on, hopefully I'll get a 10sp compatible set. Will hope to find campag ones but might have to settle for something else
    Lappiere X-Control 210
    Columbus X-Wing
    Fuji track
    Treck 1500 with Campag
    Soon to be Colnago Masters
  • Camion
    Camion Posts: 60
    Have emailed you some pics, they don't let us download or upload here at work.

    Sprockets website does 10sp Dura Ace downtube shifters for 50 quid, I dont think you'll find 10sp campag unless they are friction, i.e non indexed. The indexing works really well on these synchro 2s but obviously only 8sp max.

    Only other method would be to use TT shifters but not very safe having to go down on the drops to change gears each time.

    I went for an old leather saddle but I should have paid extra for a Selle Rolls or equivalent as this is my winter bike and when it rains, the saddle sags in thee middle, there is a bolt to stretch it but havent worked that out yet and dont want to start faffing in teh p1ssing rain.
    Colnago Extreme Power - Dura Ace
    1980s Colnago Master Steel - Super Record Delta
    Brompton M3L-X Raleigh Nitro MTB
    1981 Viscount Sport Orange Evo 8 single speed
    Specialized Langster Carerra Subway zero
  • finnj6
    finnj6 Posts: 45
    Thanksfor the pics, your bike looks great. I was reading that the colnago tt shifters can be easily converted to downtube shifters by taking off the rubber bungs. So thats that solved.

    I got some good news, with the groupset, my manager ( I work part time in a bike shop ) found some old stock of campag record alloy chainset and rear deraileur (has a slight bit of carbon but should look ok) so that is put aside for me for when i need it :D .

    But he also mentioned that the frame might not take 10sp or modern wheels. I'll have to bring the frame in and size it up. This could open up a whole new set of problems :( .

    Hopefully everything will work out, just have to send the frame off to get repaired and resprayed now, hopefully I can organise that this week and get a quote. Only prob is the frame has to be posted to the UK, no one in Ireland will do the work for me.
    Lappiere X-Control 210
    Columbus X-Wing
    Fuji track
    Treck 1500 with Campag
    Soon to be Colnago Masters
  • Lagavulin
    Lagavulin Posts: 1,688
    Polished Alu. I'm completely puzzled as to why the likes of Bianchi and Wilier have brought out retro builds such as the Gioiello Ramato and while they go to the bother of polsihed bars and stems they then stick a black or carbon chainset on it.

    Look at this...

    gioiello-ramato.jpg


    Utterly gash with a black chainset (and nor do the new Ergos don't suit it in my opinion).
  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    Lagavulin wrote:
    gioiello-ramato.jpg

    :shock: WANT
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Bhima wrote:
    Lagavulin wrote:
    gioiello-ramato.jpg

    :shock: WANT

    You are sooooo wrong!

    Needs alloy. That looks, and I quote, 'Gash'.
  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    Yeah, obviously, i'd ditch the carbon and stick my shiny alloy track bars on it.
  • Completely agree with Lagavulin - that Wilier is a hideous mutant built with no feeling for appropriate parts or overall look. It's painful to look at. Here http://www.theracingbicycle.com/images/Wilier_full.JPG is the original that it is aping, It's like a dog trying to sing 'Hallelujah'. Or something.
  • andy162
    andy162 Posts: 634
    That Willier is rotten....saddle is right, rest is way wide of the mark.

    A classic bike deserves components of the era, I've got an old 753 Panasonic Raleigh. All vintage Super Record throughout. It's a joy to ride to be honest, nowhere near as good as modern tackle, but that's the point. 6spd block, non indexed down tube shifters. Completely usable tho & great fun.

    Good luck with the build. It'll be worth it.

    ps If you're after "retro" looking tyres, go for Veloflex...perfect for the job.
  • lae
    lae Posts: 555
    ^ Don't all veloflex tyres wear really quickly, or do they make some training tyres too? I agree that they look the part!
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    the anchors are not black either.
  • finnj6
    finnj6 Posts: 45
    Cheers for the help, just noticed that the frame wont take my 9sp wheel at the moment. So will have to get the rear tri-angle widened when I'm getting it repaired. If that can't be done I'll be goint with retro parts.

    Are these hard to come by and what happens when your chain ring etc wears out? can u still get replacement parts? And old wheels can you still buy hubs etc etc?
    Lappiere X-Control 210
    Columbus X-Wing
    Fuji track
    Treck 1500 with Campag
    Soon to be Colnago Masters
  • Take a look at this beauty for inspiration

    http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 10&t=63295

    Page 2 has pics with his intended wheelset.

    Have fun with the build
    Expertly coached by http://www.vitessecyclecoaching.co.uk/

    http://vineristi.wordpress.com - the blog for Viner owners and lovers!
  • Smokin Joe
    Smokin Joe Posts: 2,706
    I'd go for aluminium too, it would look so much better.

    And no computer. You can live without one and it spoils the line of a sleek looking classic frame.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    I'm just getting my Gios Aerodynamic resprayed and wished I hadn't looked at those piccies on the WW thread. Just as well as I'm leaving it 126mm OLN.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • finnj6
    finnj6 Posts: 45
    Cheers fo all the pics and advice hope this bike turns out ok. I just shipped it to Bob Jackson to get repaired and restored. I've decided to go with a 10sp as near alloy record as I can get. So it will probably end up being record chainset and bb and headset, NOS break levers, TT shifters for the downtube, chorus front deraileur and record rear with a slight bit of carbon but not too much.

    All I need to source is a colnago quill stem, a nice seat post and wheels. Any advice I'm thinking handbuilt and silver. Can anyone give me advice on rims and hubs?

    O one more thing I have nice cinelli handle bars but not sure on their condition, can anyone give me advice on if I should use them or not? If not what would be a nice set for this bike?
    Lappiere X-Control 210
    Columbus X-Wing
    Fuji track
    Treck 1500 with Campag
    Soon to be Colnago Masters
  • finnj6 wrote:
    Cheers fo all the pics and advice hope this bike turns out ok. I just shipped it to Bob Jackson to get repaired and restored. I've decided to go with a 10sp as near alloy record as I can get. So it will probably end up being record chainset and bb and headset, NOS break levers, TT shifters for the downtube, chorus front deraileur and record rear with a slight bit of carbon but not too much.

    All I need to source is a colnago quill stem, a nice seat post and wheels. Any advice I'm thinking handbuilt and silver. Can anyone give me advice on rims and hubs?

    O one more thing I have nice cinelli handle bars but not sure on their condition, can anyone give me advice on if I should use them or not? If not what would be a nice set for this bike?

    I've seen some Mavic GP4 rimmed wheels on ebay recently - they would be the right period look for Colnago.

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mavic-GP4-Tubular ... 1e5943ca8f

    Or go for some new Ambrosio rims on some older alu Chorus/Record hubs. I bet you could pick some hubs up on ebay
    Expertly coached by http://www.vitessecyclecoaching.co.uk/

    http://vineristi.wordpress.com - the blog for Viner owners and lovers!
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    finnj6 wrote:
    Cheers fo all the pics and advice hope this bike turns out ok. I just shipped it to Bob Jackson to get repaired and restored. I've decided to go with a 10sp as near alloy record as I can get. So it will probably end up being record chainset and bb and headset, NOS break levers, TT shifters for the downtube, chorus front deraileur and record rear with a slight bit of carbon but not too much.

    All I need to source is a colnago quill stem, a nice seat post and wheels. Any advice I'm thinking handbuilt and silver. Can anyone give me advice on rims and hubs?

    O one more thing I have nice cinelli handle bars but not sure on their condition, can anyone give me advice on if I should use them or not? If not what would be a nice set for this bike?

    I suggest hunting out a Chorus titanium seatpost, from pre 2004-ish, and the last polished Record hubs, which I think were replaced in 2006. I think the ebay prices for these bits are on the up, but you may get lucky. Smug admission: I have both on my bike, but will never be pried from my cold dead hands, etc.

    The best rims ever were Mavic MA2, in my judgment, but they're made no more, and given that a large part of their appeal is spartan simplicity, it defeats the object to pay much for them as NOS. I suggest the usual Mavic Open Pro / Ambrosio whichever, in plain silver. 32 or 36 double butted spokes each, 3 cross (normal) pattern. If you ever find any skinwall slick tyres like Veloflex in 25mm or bigger, please tell me as I'm after some.

    I would be wary of old aluminium handlebars with unknown history. Fatigue failure here is not uncommon, and can be catastrophic. I had to give in and get black handlebars last time, but my next pair will probably be something by Nitto.