What's stopping teenage girls from riding bikes?
Comments
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Nowhere to carry their hair straighteners...;-)
And the ironic thing is, so many teenage girls are desperate to stay slim and if they knew about the benefits of cycling I'm sure a lot more of them would ride.0 -
chugger wrote:Spot on DDD.
Why thank you.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
its not rocket science
MTBing is more a boys sport
Cycling alone in certain areas is unwise if your female
its that simple!0 -
Teenage boys?0
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DonDaddyD wrote:chugger wrote:Spot on DDD.
Why thank you.
You do have a point - I enjoyed reading your post because a lot of what you've said rings true regarding women's cycle clothing. In fact, almost all of it.
However, although I reiterate that you have a point, I don't think it's the only thing stopping them, it's the lack of 'cool'.
There is also this odd british girl attitude that sport is something to be got out of. I was one of only a few girls throughout my secondary school years who actually did all 4 sessions of games a week, all the others came up with lame excuses time and time again until Dance was introduced, then they all did that, apart from me and a few hardened hockey girls. It's odd, but I don't know what can be done about it apart from getting some serious celebrity endorsement.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Role models and the constant sexualisation and cheapening of credible female athletes in a particular sport, in this case cycling, I feel is great for men to objectify the women but also off putting to women. Behold the Assos advert. - Why is there wind blowing her hair upwards?
Your getting confused as to the responsibilites of wiggle. The wind is blowing to make her more attractive- so you will buy the item. If they could make the item more appealing- they would- its basic advertising!DonDaddyD wrote:
Personally, any time I see professional female cyclist they are usually objectified and made into sexual objects. Very often the only ones to get any real publicity are blessed with perfect slender bodies, picture perfect eyes, shapely thighs and a model trained pout/smile. If you doubt this why hasn't Nicole Cooke been knighted for her contributions to cycling as well as her very many personal awards and medals won through her many years of cycling? And no, its not the same for men, yes Beckham is well known but not as respected as someone like Ronaldinho who is pig ugly but once bloody brilliant or Lionel Messi.
Nicole Cooke hasn't done what she has done for anyone else but herself. Any real athlete is selfish. As such- whether someone else is lucky to get publicity or not- she has no right to complain- as they owe her nothing. If you looked in the more serious sources then im sure she has credibility- but dont buy hello and expect to see her- Hello is not a serious cycling magazine.
being a celeb isn;t just about talent- Beckham has the whole package- and has marketed himself extremely well. Any fermale could do this- if they had a sport with as much money & profile as football.DonDaddyD wrote:
While the pretty women on bikes are nice for me to look at and certainly, I'd go to a track day, I can't see this as inspiring young impressionable girls who are concious about there ever developing bodies.
Its not the purpose of fashion/model advertisers to encourage girls to cycle.DonDaddyD wrote:
This is also compounded on by the marketing of clothes and other female specifc cycling accesories. Many of which are clearly created for women, designed and marketed by men to women. Top Shop released a cycle fashion range for girls who want to cycle. Pink, purple, fluffy and encrusted with stones. A fashion range for men is credible Rapha or Castelli kit.
Any company with half a brain will have done enough R & D to know their target market- there is more money in catering for the fashion side of cycling- this is what they are doing. Again- look at other sources and you will find function.
Do you think Bikinis are more hydrodynamic than a full suit? Is is this another form over function thing? And is that a bad thing? They are catering for a need.DonDaddyD wrote:
We've all seen the Assos ladies bib advert (above) do I need to say more? If I was a 14-16yr old girl and self concious how would that encourage me to cycle at any level other than down to the corner shop in a pair of jeans and only if I absolutely had to?
They are advertising for a product! Given they are advertising on a specilised cycle site- they are not likely to reach a lot of "maybe" female cyclists. And with a figure like that i would expect it would encourage some girls to get into it!DonDaddyD wrote:
Where is the equality? I wanna be like Alberto Contador, I buy some Castelli or team kit and look the business and despite my gut and the fact that I'm overweight I'm suddenly taken seriously. A young girl buys a similar kit wanting to follow her favourite cyclist's footsteps and suddenly she's seen as something far closer to Pamela Anderson in the baywatch costume.
Wheres the inequality? David Beckyham is the biggest sex symbol ever FFS.
Cheapened and sexualised because of my would be/could be passions, I wouldn't want to cycle either. [/quote]0 -
My daughter didn;t want to ride much past about 13/14 - she was one of only three who rode to school and even then she was much happier about being driven there rather than have me ride with her to school. Luckily a couple of her "cool" friends started riding in - so she stuck with it.
Just been to Amsterdam and there doesn;t seem to be much difference between genders riding out there - but did notice all the bikes seem to be quite old - many of them in quite poor state - no racers and none of them going particularly fast or wearing helmets, cycle gear - all of them in normal clothes.
So we do seem to have a completely different relationship with our bikes here than the Dutch - not sure what any of this means though. :?0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:4 sessions of games a week
4 Sessions :shock:
4 compulsory sessions? My school was top on sport and we only had compulsory Wednesday afternoon sports - although being a sort of school that produces Olympic/Boat Rowers, there was training sessions every day of the week for some, although the 1st XV rugby only had 4 sessions a week.0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:chugger wrote:Spot on DDD.
Why thank you.
You do have a point - I enjoyed reading your post because a lot of what you've said rings true regarding women's cycle clothing. In fact, almost all of it.
However, although I reiterate that you have a point, I don't think it's the only thing stopping them, it's the lack of 'cool'.
There is also this odd british girl attitude that sport is something to be got out of. I was one of only a few girls throughout my secondary school years who actually did all 4 sessions of games a week, all the others came up with lame excuses time and time again until Dance was introduced, then they all did that, apart from me and a few hardened hockey girls. It's odd, but I don't know what can be done about it apart from getting some serious celebrity endorsement.
Like most situations in life LiT, the answer is usually a combination of things. However, one can only speak from the perspective that affects them most.
My post is based around thoughts of "what if I have a daughter" and other experiences that if I said here would probably have all the naysayers jumping on me telling me I'm wrong. Like Village_idiot's post...Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
the_village_idiot,
Are you kidding me. None of what you said actually addresses the issue, much rather discussing the motivations of athletes, which you cannot possibly know and motivations/goals of organisations, which can only be speculated on.
To clrify for you, the Assos image is assos' own and not wiggle's. Also I may come up with some gems sometimes but on advertising, I work in marketing and studied the connotations and denotations of images. That Assos picture is not there to encourage women to cycle or even promote the benefits of the bib.
But besides all that:
Fact that a girl has entered the thread and acknowledged and agreed with my point is enough for me.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Porgy wrote:My daughter didn;t want to ride much past about 13/14 - she was one of only three who rode to school and even then she was much happier about being driven there rather than have me ride with her to school. Luckily a couple of her "cool" friends started riding in - so she stuck with it.
Just been to Amsterdam and there doesn;t seem to be much difference between genders riding out there - but did notice all the bikes seem to be quite old - many of them in quite poor state - no racers and none of them going particularly fast or wearing helmets, cycle gear - all of them in normal clothes.
So we do seem to have a completely different relationship with our bikes here than the Dutch - not sure what any of this means though. :?
Porgy, having had a good look at the comments on the Guardian's bike blog last night, this indeed was a fairly recurrent theme. For some of the contributors, bikes should be more everyday and homely sorts of things - you know, sit up and beg Dutch-style bikes, chain guards to keep clothes clean, no helmets to give you'' helmet hair.'' And to go alongside that concern was another related one - the image is too much that of the sporty male, a bit macho and techy, doing dangerous things with too much aggression.
So it appears that part of the reluctance of girls to cycle might actually be the fact that many of the men on the road are inadvertently - through no fault of their own - creating an image of cycling that is alien to them. And, seeming to back that up, by far the largest class of reasons that were given for not cycling was made up of safety concerns: lack of driver consideration, inadequate cycle infrastructure and other things which boil down to danger (or perceptions of danger). Plus of course the fact that overprotective parents will tend to do the safety assessment for the girl and decide that it's too dark, too dangerous, etc and will then maybe even play taxi for them because of their own fears. The upshot being that, from her sheltered viewpoint, the girl simply doesn't get the chance to work out the danger for herself.
This of course is only one small part of the jigsaw. And interestingly enough, BR forummers do not seem to have mentioned safety as a major factor - while they seemed to mention role models more.0 -
However, although I reiterate that you have a point, I don't think it's the only thing stopping them, it's the lack of 'cool'.
There is also this odd british girl attitude that sport is something to be got out of. I was one of only a few girls throughout my secondary school years who actually did all 4 sessions of games a week, all the others came up with lame excuses time and time again until Dance was introduced, then they all did that, apart from me and a few hardened hockey girls. It's odd, but I don't know what can be done about it apart from getting some serious celebrity endorsement.
Lost in Thought, this part also seem to be an enormous hurdle - and schools seem to be at a loss for what to do apart from to offer dance as an option - because dance, as a sort of highest common factor, is the only way many schools have managed to get most girls exercising.0 -
I think the cycling culture in britain is about performance. It's all fast road bikes, hi tech mountain bikes, and expensive bike - specific clothing leading the way. But I think utility bikes, old fashioned town bikes, and less sporty cycling stuff is increasingly becoming fashionable.
Maybe this will get more lady-humans cycling.Drink poison. Wrestle snakes.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Role models and the constant sexualisation and cheapening of credible female athletes in a particular sport, in this case cycling, I feel is great for men to objectify the women but also off putting to women. Behold the Assos advert. - Why is there wind blowing her hair upwards?
Personally, any time I see professional female cyclist they are usually objectified and made into sexual objects. Very often the only ones to get any real publicity are blessed with perfect slender bodies, picture perfect eyes, shapely thighs and a model trained pout/smile. If you doubt this why hasn't Nicole Cooke been knighted for her contributions to cycling as well as her very many personal awards and medals won through her many years of cycling? And no, its not the same for men, yes Beckham is well known but not as respected as someone like Ronaldinho who is pig ugly but once bloody brilliant or Lionel Messi.
While the pretty women on bikes are nice for me to look at and certainly, I'd go to a track day, I can't see this as inspiring young impressionable girls who are concious about there ever developing bodies.
This is also compounded on by the marketing of clothes and other female specifc cycling accesories. Many of which are clearly created for women, designed and marketed by men to women. Top Shop released a cycle fashion range for girls who want to cycle. Pink, purple, fluffy and encrusted with stones. A fashion range for men is credible Rapha or Castelli kit.
We've all seen the Assos ladies bib advert (above) do I need to say more? If I was a 14-16yr old girl and self concious how would that encourage me to cycle at any level other than down to the corner shop in a pair of jeans and only if I absolutely had to?
Where is the equality? I wanna be like Alberto Contador, I buy some Castelli or team kit and look the business and despite my gut and the fact that I'm overweight I'm suddenly taken seriously. A young girl buys a similar kit wanting to follow her favourite cyclist's footsteps and suddenly she's seen as something far closer to Pamela Anderson in the baywatch costume.
Cheapened and sexualised because of my would be/could be passions, I wouldn't want to cycle either.
DDD, what I don't fully grasp is how an overtly sexualised, objectified image of women - such as the lass in the Assos bib - is anything different from the constant bombardment that girls are already subject to. I fear they already expect that kind of portrayal and are probably, in a weird way, already complicit in these images. I can't quite put my finger on the difference between the Assos representation and the ever-present beauty product images that surround us.0 -
I wonder if the girl in the assos ad rides commando?If i aint riding it, then im thinking about riding it.0
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deptfordmarmoset wrote:
DDD, what I don't fully grasp is how an overtly sexualised, objectified image of women - such as the lass in the Assos bib - is anything different from the constant bombardment that girls are already subject to. I fear they already expect that kind of portrayal and are probably, in a weird way, already complicit in these images. I can't quite put my finger on the difference between the Assos representation and the ever-present beauty product images that surround us.
How about the notion that all images that only serve to objectify women, when not necessary or relevant to the actual message is counterproductive and negative.
I don't see how the sexualisation of the female form, when it isn't necessary, productive or even encouraging for women.
Linsen put it best, her gender isn't a factor when cycling. Consider this, a women who loves cycling and is deceptively swift has said that. Now go and look at the Assos advert again and tell me how that would encourage or inspire Linsen, let alone a teenage girl developing into her body, to cycle.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:the_village_idiot,
Are you kidding me. None of what you said actually addresses the issue, much rather discussing the motivations of athletes, which you cannot possibly know and motivations/goals of organisations, which can only be speculated on.
The purpose of my post wasn't to address the issue (i did this in a post prev)- i was addressing your attempt at addressing the issue.
I dont think it would be called speculation to suggest that all companies purpose is to make money- and its the opinion of the advertising department of that product- that that women was the best way of doing it.
All serious athletes are selfish. Their motivation is selfish- it has to be. Period. You can dress it up with "im doing it for my country", or "im doing it for my dead mum"- but its still selfish.DonDaddyD wrote:
To clrify for you, the Assos image is assos' own and not wiggle's. Also I may come up with some gems sometimes but on advertising, I work in marketing and studied the connotations and denotations of images. That Assos picture is not there to encourage women to cycle or even promote the benefits of the bib.
True- but the picture isn't on a "Get women into cycling now" website- its a sales website- and with your background in marketing, you must realise that its fit for a purpose- to sell sports gear.
If the product was of the best quality/performance, and was advertised to a market which are far more serious- perhaps the model (who may be a famous cyclist) would be half way through a triathlon while it was being taken- but that profile does not meet the product, its intended purchaser, and sales drive.DonDaddyD wrote:
But besides all that:
Fact that a girl has entered the thread and acknowledged and agreed with my point is enough for me.
Yes i suppose the view of one female does supercede all others opinions- male or female :? :?0 -
What no-one here seems to have realised is that for a girl between the ages of 11 and 16/18, who isn't aiming to have a baby at the earliest opportunity, is that image is everything. Not because of WAG culture, ( they're the ones having kids) but so that they DON'T stand out. It's very important in senior school not to be noticed as an individual, it's fine to be that girl, in that group, in Maths, or in English, but not to be known as a person. If you look like everyone else you are hardly likely to be noticed. Cycling to school would make you noticed and this is the last thing that you need.
My daughter would cycle happily when we were on holiday, but not a chance at home. She has changed personality completely now she's at Uni, she doesn't need to be hidden in a group any more, at last she can be herself.0 -
So basically you're trying to tell me I'm wrong.... :roll:the_village_idiot wrote:
All serious athletes are selfish. Their motivation is selfish- it has to be. Period. You can dress it up with "im doing it for my country", or "im doing it for my dead mum"- but its still selfish.
Honestly, I think that is presumptuous rubbish. Do you know any athletes? I have a few athletes/performers in the family? Some have performed at international level, national and local level with varying degrees of success. My Dad represented England and a highjumper, he trained with Linford, they were really close mates both coming from Jamaica and what not... My aunt for example (though a dancer, ballet mainly but other forms) has an OBE for her efforts. Knowing them personally, I can guarantee that they aren't selfish. Driven and dedicated to their trade, yes. Selfish, no.
All understand the responsibility they have to those that could/would look up to them. In my aunts case, given her struggles as a young and impressionable black women who was surrounded by imagery that suggested beautiful women were only white. An example of my point in its extreme, would never sell out and flaunt her body for recognition. Doing so would say nothing about her or how good she was.
So, from my humble and personal experience, I completely disagree with your assumptions of athletes.True- but the picture isn't on a "Get women into cycling now" website- its a sales website- and with your background in marketing, you must realise that its fit for a purpose- to sell sports gear.
If the product was of the best quality/performance, and was advertised to a market which are far more serious- perhaps the model (who may be a famous cyclist) would be half way through a triathlon while it was being taken- but that profile does not meet the product, its intended purchaser, and sales drive.
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Right.... and who is the advert for men or women? Because it doesn't look that appealing to most hetrosexual women to be honest.... Think for a second, "As a women, when riding my bike, why should I buy that bib to use wwith the really sexy women, wind swept hair grabbing her boobs?" Yeah real encouraging that one...
Though I think LiTs owns that bib.... :roll:Yes i suppose the view of one female does supercede all others opinions- male or female :? :?
Well given my point was that the marketing machine of female cycling does nothing to consider the probable physically concious (because of the age) teenage girl. And a women has come into the thread, looked at her experience, personal knowledge and life and said.
"Yes Dondaddyd, you have a point"
I see real value in that, to be honest, than your presumptions that athletes are selfish and trying to suggest that the assos advert has a real meaning other than selling a sexy image.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:deptfordmarmoset wrote:
DDD, what I don't fully grasp is how an overtly sexualised, objectified image of women - such as the lass in the Assos bib - is anything different from the constant bombardment that girls are already subject to. I fear they already expect that kind of portrayal and are probably, in a weird way, already complicit in these images. I can't quite put my finger on the difference between the Assos representation and the ever-present beauty product images that surround us.
How about the notion that all images that only serve to objectify women, when not necessary or relevant to the actual message is counterproductive and negative.
I don't see how the sexualisation of the female form, when it isn't necessary, productive or even encouraging for women.
Linsen put it best, her gender isn't a factor when cycling. Consider this, a women who loves cycling and is deceptively swift has said that. Now go and look at the Assos advert again and tell me how that would encourage or inspire Linsen, let alone a teenage girl developing into her body, to cycle.
I'm not sure that many people in general, let alone young girls, would have ever stumbled across that pic though - the person who will have looked at it and maybe gone on to buy one would be a girl/woman who's already cycling. And I can't think of many clothing ads that use anything other than similar clichéed images. Ok, I think it's a pretty daft picture done without thought and it tells nothing about what it looks like when worn on a bike, or what it feels like to wear. But it's pretty much standard fare, isn't it? And in asking that, I'm not in any way condoning it, far from it - I'm asking it with a degree of sadness and regret - my daughter, now 31, has had to go through that kind of stuff incessantly for years.0 -
deptfordmarmoset wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:deptfordmarmoset wrote:
DDD, what I don't fully grasp is how an overtly sexualised, objectified image of women - such as the lass in the Assos bib - is anything different from the constant bombardment that girls are already subject to. I fear they already expect that kind of portrayal and are probably, in a weird way, already complicit in these images. I can't quite put my finger on the difference between the Assos representation and the ever-present beauty product images that surround us.
How about the notion that all images that only serve to objectify women, when not necessary or relevant to the actual message is counterproductive and negative.
I don't see how the sexualisation of the female form, when it isn't necessary, productive or even encouraging for women.
Linsen put it best, her gender isn't a factor when cycling. Consider this, a women who loves cycling and is deceptively swift has said that. Now go and look at the Assos advert again and tell me how that would encourage or inspire Linsen, let alone a teenage girl developing into her body, to cycle.
I'm not sure that many people in general, let alone young girls, would have ever stumbled across that pic though - the person who will have looked at it and maybe gone on to buy one would be a girl/woman who's already cycling.
The point is still valid, as the image is still more discouraging than encouraging, IMO.
Think for a second. Imagine I've got a daughter, early teens, I've just bought her a road bike and about to recommend a bib. I'm really going to show her the assos one....And I can't think of many clothing ads that use anything other than similar clichéed images.
Like my point in the post before, just because it happens elsewhere doesn't make it ok. You're only highlighting the problem that I originally touched upon. The needless sexualisation of women when it isn't necessary. That assos picture wouldn't be out of place in an Ann Summers catelogue.Ok, I think it's a pretty daft picture done without thought and it tells nothing about what it looks like when worn on a bike, or what it feels like to wear. But it's pretty much standard fare, isn't it? And in asking that, I'm not in any way condoning it, far from it - I'm asking it with a degree of sadness and regret - my daughter, now 31, has had to go through that kind of stuff incessantly for years.
I think we've come to a point where we agree, I'm going for it. You ready?
On this, the needless sexualisation of women, it creates a glass celing, it cheapens the gender. It helps to prevent them from being taken as seriously as they should. Society is wrong.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
MrsT wrote:What no-one here seems to have realised is that for a girl between the ages of 11 and 16/18, who isn't aiming to have a baby at the earliest opportunity, is that image is everything. Not because of WAG culture, ( they're the ones having kids) but so that they DON'T stand out. It's very important in senior school not to be noticed as an individual, it's fine to be that girl, in that group, in Maths, or in English, but not to be known as a person. If you look like everyone else you are hardly likely to be noticed. Cycling to school would make you noticed and this is the last thing that you need.
My daughter would cycle happily when we were on holiday, but not a chance at home. She has changed personality completely now she's at Uni, she doesn't need to be hidden in a group any more, at last she can be herself.
Hi there, MrsT. I understand what you're saying but cycling to school would only get you noticed if no one else in your peer group cycles. Fact is, they don't. They already don't. So doing it is then a big no-no. That then pushes the question back to ''why don't the peer group cycle?'' Does that make sense?
By the way, you didn't say - is she cycling at Uni or does she go to one in an impossibly hilly city?0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:So basically you're trying to tell me I'm wrong.... :roll:
yes- but im not being rude and im explaining how your wrong.DonDaddyD wrote:
Honestly, I think that is presumptuous rubbish. Do you know any athletes? I have a few athletes/performers in the family? Some have performed at international level, national and local level with varying degrees of success. My Dad represented England and a highjumper, he trained with Linford, they were really close mates both coming from Jamaica and what not... My aunt for example (though a dancer, ballet mainly but other forms) has an OBE for her efforts. Knowing them personally, I can guarantee that they aren't selfish. Driven and dedicated to their trade, yes. Selfish, no.
All understand the responsibility they have to those that could/would look up to them. In my aunts case, given her struggles as a young and impressionable black women who was surrounded by imagery that suggested beautiful women were only white. An example of my point in its extreme, would never sell out and flaunt her body for recognition. Doing so would say nothing about her or how good she was.
So, from my humble and personal experience, I completely disagree with your assumptions of athletes.
I agree its important for any serious athlete not to "sell out" and follow the media- Anna Kornekova did and it was a mistake, Becks did- but got away with it thanks to skill, and bringing money in for the team!) Ask yourself why they are doing that.
Oh, and lets not broaden it into a race issue- although i believe you were saying similar to my above paragraph.
However- ask yourself why any serious athlete does what they do. Answer- its for themselves, therefore its selfish.
Your taking it personally by bringing your aunt into it- you will note that i do not say selfishness, in this context, is a bad thing. The pursuit of self improvement and drive to suceed is a characteristic that is vital, for the human race to develop.
I can promise you that, deep down, all atheletes are selfish. And yes- im not gonna tell you about my nans dog humped another womans dog who was a semi pro boxer or anything- but i do know an athlete or twoDonDaddyD wrote:True- but the picture isn't on a "Get women into cycling now" website- its a sales website- and with your background in marketing, you must realise that its fit for a purpose- to sell sports gear.
If the product was of the best quality/performance, and was advertised to a market which are far more serious- perhaps the model (who may be a famous cyclist) would be half way through a triathlon while it was being taken- but that profile does not meet the product, its intended purchaser, and sales drive.
Right.... and who is the advert for men or women? Because it doesn't look that appealing to most hetrosexual women to be honest.... Think for a second, "As a women, when riding my bike, why should I buy that bib to use wwith the really sexy women, wind swept hair grabbing her boobs?" Yeah real encouraging that one...
Though I think LiTs owns that bib.... :roll:
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Mate didn't you say you worked in advertising & marketing? :?
Buy almost ANY womans magazine- it will be full of slim attractive women (with the exception of "feminist monthly"
)
That advert would appeal to a number of purchasers- men buying for women, women who wish to be percieved in that athletic/attractive way, women who want a decent item and simply ignore the women (but subconciously take note).DonDaddyD wrote:Yes i suppose the view of one female does supercede all others opinions- male or female :? :?
Well given my point was that the marketing machine of female cycling does nothing to consider the probable physically concious (because of the age) teenage girl. And a women has come into the thread, looked at her experience, personal knowledge and life and said.
"Yes Dondaddyd, you have a point"
I see real value in that, to be honest, than your presumptions that athletes are selfish and trying to suggest that the assos advert has a real meaning other than selling a sexy image.
You see value in one female agreeing with your statements? Fair enough.
Find me a statement where i suggested that the assos advert had strong meanings other than a sexy image- if you read my posts properly- you will find i place it down to simple economics0 -
the_village_idiot wrote:
I agree its important for any serious athlete not to "sell out" and follow the media- Anna Kornekova did and it was a mistake, Becks did- but got away with it thanks to skill, and bringing money in for the team!) Ask yourself why they are doing that.
That's neither here nor there. You can't give me any more of a definitive answer to why they've chosen the route they've chosen any more than I can. We can speculate and one answer will be money but I'm sure the decision for both was and is a personal one. Perhaps they just like it.Oh, and lets not broaden it into a race issue- although i believe you were saying similar to my above paragraph.
I'm not bringing it into a race issue, I'm giving you a similar example of a young girl being surrounded by imagery that implied what is beautiful, that didn't represent her physically - thus only proving to be counterproductive in terms of encouraging her to participate in the given field. The context of the example, one that relates to race, is secondary to the overarching point.However- ask yourself why any serious athlete does what they do. Answer- its for themselves, therefore its selfish.
I think that is a blinkered assumption.Your taking it personally by bringing your aunt into it- you will note that i do not say selfishness, in this context, is a bad thing. The pursuit of self improvement and drive to suceed is a characteristic that is vital, for the human race to develop.
I can promise you that, deep down, all atheletes are selfish. And yes- im not gonna tell you about my nans dog humped another womans dog who was a semi pro boxer or anything- but i do know an athlete or two
I'm not taking it personally I just doubt your rationale on this. At this point lets agree to disagree.Mate didn't you say you worked in advertising & marketing? :?
Buy almost ANY womans magazine- it will be full of slim attractive women (with the exception of "feminist monthly" )
And that imagery, when not necessary, I believe is counterproductive and ultimately detrimental to the confidence of many young girls and women. Just because many do, doesn't mean many are right.That advert would appeal to a number of purchasers- men buying for women, women who wish to be percieved in that athletic/attractive way, women who want a decent item and simply ignore the women (but subconciously take note).
You say this and again I still mostly disagree with you. So lets agree to disagree.You see value in one female agreeing with your statements? Fair enough.
Why, is that woman wrong?
Anyway, I don't think we are going to agree on this, so as I've said twice before. Lets agree to disagree.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
ok dude0
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I do own that bib... in its 'shorts' version, and I tell you for free that I didn't buy it voluntarily. I object to the marketing, I (unlike many teenage girls) couldn't care less if I look attractive while cycling. I thought I was getting the previous assos bib, but they'd sold out so sent me what I refer to as 'the idiotic booby one'.
It's an example of a design 'by men for men for women'. And I don't know that a woman who's got to the 'I am happy to spend over £150 on one cycling garment' point really cares for that - for me anyway it was more important to find out whether the thing was comfortable. Oh, and it isn't.
Whether I'm right or wrong, I think DDD had a lot of good points. I cannot pretend to know anyhting about marketing, it's just from a personal POV. Oh and I'm not a raging feminist, I just resent being patronised by cycle clothing manufacturers.0 -
I think it would be helpful if they started making "women specific" cycling gear, in twee pastel colours. The clothing could carry plower motifs.
As a man, I am convinced this would help.
:roll:0 -
Always Tyred wrote:I think it would be helpful if they started making "women specific" cycling gear, in twee pastel colours. The clothing could carry plower motifs.
As a man, I am convinced this would help.
:roll:
'Or butterflies. Women like butterflies. See, look, it's in this 'Women' manual I've got here...'
'We could ask one'
'Don't be ridiculous'
:roll:0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Always Tyred wrote:I think it would be helpful if they started making "women specific" cycling gear, in twee pastel colours. The clothing could carry plower motifs.
As a man, I am convinced this would help.
:roll:
'Or butterflies. Women like butterflies. See, look, it's in this 'Women' manual I've got here...'
'We could ask one'
'Don't be ridiculous'
:roll:
He he Trying to get all the comments I'd seen in to some kind of order, I actually ended up with a ''pink/not pink'' category. It looks like butterflies might also fit into this group too. They tended to cancel each other out.
I was with a friend looking at women's bikes earlier this year in Decathlon - I remember her asking ''Do they only come in pink?'' The answer was yes, and no bike was bought.0
