Wheelsets - Help!

OxfordGTOwnersClb

Hi all

I'm looking to upgrade my wheels for some lightweight, strong XC alternatives. I'm looking to spend around the £200 mark so wanted to bend your collective ears for your thoughts?!
Also, where's the best place to pick up 2009 clearance wheelsets online so I can get more for my money?

Looking forward to your suggestions.

supersonic

What are you upgrading from?

XT centrelock hubs, stans rims (or mavic XC717 for cheaper) with Dt butted spokes is the classic combo.

OxfordGTOwnersClb

Running the standard zaskar expert wheels from that year - LX hubs, WTB speed disc rims. Unsure what spokes they come with?

Ideally I'll use the originals as road wheels and leave slicks on them and use the new set as a designated off road set.

Where's the best place to pick up wheelsets that use stans rims?

supersonic

CRC spec them.

Your wheelset isn't too bad, you won't save that much weight with just £200.

toasty

Hope Hoops?

Pro 2s with ZTR 355 rims would save you about 1lb I bet. Very sturdy and would set you back about £250. I've not had the greatest history with wheels, those things are lovely though.

OxfordGTOwnersClb

Cheers, chaps

Any idea where I can get hold of a set of those, Toasty?

toasty

Yeah, quite a few places stock them. I think I got my first set from Leisure Lakes online (yes, I literally liked them so much I bought 2 sets).

Then the other set I got for even cheaper from Winstanleys:

http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/index ... 6&brandID=

http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/index ... 1&brandID=

£228, crazy good value, bang on their quoted weight too unless most wheels (like the DT rims for example :P)

The price is quite a lot cheaper than the cost of the hubs + the rims + the spokes though, both of mine have been very well put together.

diy

Are those links two standard 6 bolt rotor options and 135 rear hub - the different versions are confusing..

how much better would straight pull be over standard?

toasty

Yeah

"Hope Pro 2 Standard"

Thats the old style standard Hope Pro 2 hub, 135mm, 32 "J" DT Comp spokes, QR but with 20mm option that comes with it for the front.

Hope Pro 2 SP, is the same as above but with straght pull spokes. I'm a bit undecided on straight pull still, there seems to be no massive advantage, the above is perfectly solid and cheap to fix up.

Hope Pro 3 SP-AM4, big tough 4 bolt rotor, made to be tougher. Claimed to be a bit lighter but curiously seems to be heavier. Straight pull spokes again. Not quite the same axle options as the standard hub though on these Pro 3s as far as I know.

Hope Pro 3 SP-XC3, 24 straight pull spokes. Probably a great option if you're very light, I can't stand flexy wheels though and have bought/regretted 24 spokes before.


I decided to stick with the standard ones, 32 standard spokes, 6 bolt rotors, lots of axle options, cheap to fix up etc. Loving Stans rims too actually They've been very solid so far and haven't needed touching.

Dick Scruttock

Toasty wrote:

Hope Pro 3 SP-AM4, big tough 4 bolt rotor, made to be tougher. Claimed to be a bit lighter but curiously seems to be heavier. Straight pull spokes again. Not quite the same axle options as the standard hub though on these Pro 3s as far as I know.

Pro 3 SP-AM4's can be used with QR or 20mm through axle as adapters are supplied with them. You need to buy the 15mm adapters if you need them.

Pro 3 SP-XC3's can only be used with QR or 15mm through axle not with a 20mm through axle.

Also i wonder if the AM4's come out slightly heavier as they include the disk weight in the total possibly?

toasty

Rick Draper wrote:

Toasty wrote:

Hope Pro 3 SP-AM4, big tough 4 bolt rotor, made to be tougher. Claimed to be a bit lighter but curiously seems to be heavier. Straight pull spokes again. Not quite the same axle options as the standard hub though on these Pro 3s as far as I know.

Pro 3 SP-AM4's can be used with QR or 20mm through axle as adapters are supplied with them. You need to buy the 15mm adapters if you need them.

Pro 3 SP-XC3's can only be used with QR or 15mm through axle not with a 20mm through axle.

Also i wonder if the AM4's come out slightly heavier as they include the disk weight in the total possibly?

I'm not sure, I can't even recall where I saw it. I was pondering the difference as my first set were on Flows for my Meta. I'm fairly sure the hubs + bolts come out heavier, nullifying the 30g saved per rotor.

Looking back there certainly isn't much difference, both are about 1930-1950g.

diy

Last stupid questions..

the flow 355 are a disc specific rim i.e. no shiny braking surfaces for v brakes? Its not that easy to see the profile given that few actually show the correct rim in the picture..

toasty

Yup, Flow and 355 are disc specific. Just to clarify Flow and 355 are different rims, Flow being a big AM style wide rim, 355 being a 19mm trail/xc type rim. Both are very light for their class and can be converted tubeless with some Stan's yellow tape, then run with UST or normal tyres without too much grief.

OxfordGTOwnersClb

Hold on,

I'm going to have to throw in my contribution to the stupid questions now!

If I went with the Hope hubs Toasty has so kindly recommended to me, are they compatible with Shimano/Avid rotors/brake systems or will I also need to fork out for Hope brakes?
I would imagine that would be nonsensical of Hope to do this but I'd better ask the question!

Also, do any of you know what the maximum diameter rotor is that I can fit on the rear of my 07 Zaskar expert? I'm looking at a set on ebay but I'm unsure (without going home and measuring up) if the 203mm rotor will fit?

toasty

The "Standard" hubs use normal 6 bolt rotors. The hubs will be fine with a 203mm rotor, but just out of curiosity, what do you need that much stopping power for?

6'6" and 14.5 stone here and using 160-180mm on the back, even on burlier bikes. Even leaning right off the back it's easy to lock it up with 1 finger It's normally the front people stick bigger rotors on as it'll have all the momentum acting against it.

OxfordGTOwnersClb

Toasty wrote:

The "Standard" hubs use normal 6 bolt rotors. The hubs will be fine with a 203mm rotor, but just out of curiosity, what do you need that much stopping power for?

6'6" and 14.5 stone here and using 160-180mm on the back, even on burlier bikes. Even leaning right off the back it's easy to lock it up with 1 finger It's normally the front people stick bigger rotors on as it'll have all the momentum acting against it.

Thanks for coming back so swiftly.

Your curiosity over the 203mm rear rotor is good to hear, as I have been questioning this to the seller on ebay too.
I'm currently using the standard 160mm LX rear rotors, I'm only 5'11" and the lighter side of 12.5 stone so didn't think there was any need for a larger rotor?
I have lost considerable brake power of late, though and as I've plenty of pad left was considering what this was most likely down to?
First thing I was going to rule out was to top up the fluid reservoir, then moving onto bleeding the system if the top up was ineffective. I've also been looking at braided hose kits too.

What do you reckon? Anyway, to sum up, the Shimano 6 bolt rotors will be compatible with the Hope hub?

Thanks for all your help.

toasty

Is it literally lack of power that it's suffering from or are they pulling too far back towards the bars? Air in the system will normally lead to the brakes feeling quite spongey and lacking in power. If they're biting correctly but don't seem to grip it sounds like the pad is contaminated?

What brakes are they just out of interest? Newer Shimano brakes with the reservoir are quite easy to get air out of, you can zip tie the brake lever closed and ensure the cable is always upwards from the caliper to the lever, then leave them overnight. The air bubbles will rise up and you can top it up the next morning.

203mm on the back is big bike territory, you'd see that on downhill bikes and the like. In which case the main benefit is the way they can handle heat a lot better.

But yes, a standard Shimano 6 bolt rotor will be fine on a standard Hope Pro II hub

OxfordGTOwnersClb

Toasty wrote:

Is it literally lack of power that it's suffering from or are they pulling too far back towards the bars? Air in the system will normally lead to the brakes feeling quite spongey and lacking in power. If they're biting correctly but don't seem to grip it sounds like the pad is contaminated?

What brakes are they just out of interest? Newer Shimano brakes with the reservoir are quite easy to get air out of, you can zip tie the brake lever closed and ensure the cable is always upwards from the caliper to the lever, then leave them overnight. The air bubbles will rise up and you can top it up the next morning.

203mm on the back is big bike territory, you'd see that on downhill bikes and the like. In which case the main benefit is the way they can handle heat a lot better.

But yes, a standard Shimano 6 bolt rotor will be fine on a standard Hope Pro II hub

Good stuff. I'm using a 2007 Shimano LX brake system so I'll definitely try what you've recommended before anything else.
I've heard conflicting things about the mid-range Shimanos so would you expect a significant increase in performance from the Avids if I were to invest in those?

I think I'll also treat myself to those wheels as they look great. From Winstanley's - on credit
Thanks so much for all you help, Toast-Meister.

toasty

I've heard conflicting things about the mid-range Shimanos so would you expect a significant increase in performance from the Avids if I were to invest in those?

Nothing massive, but something definitely sounds like it's up with your current setup. It might be worth seeing if the caliper is correctly aligned with the brake and having a poke around. Both pistons are moving smoothly?

Avid do make some solid brakes though, I've always got on well with them In all honesty, the newer style Shimanos are my favourite so far. Very powerful, lots of modulation and very easy to get air out of, as mentioned. I've only had to do a full bleed once and that was when changing a hose.

No probs

stayhigh65

supersonic wrote:

XT centrelock hubs, stans rims (or mavic XC717 for cheaper) with Dt butted spokes is the classic combo.

I currently have an XT/719 wheelset and am fed up of faffing about with tubeless kits so looking at going the UST route, do you know the weight of these wheels?

The Spiderman

My set which have the porky M756 6 bolt XT hub with 717 is 1940g.Stans 355 rims are 355g v 395 for the 717 so you`d be at around 1860g,with 6 bolt but probably nearer 1800g with newer XT centrelock hubs.

diy

I have 203/185mm (or is it 180?) rotors and they are cool . Size of rotor is not just about stopping power, but feel, modulation etc. However, the bigger they are the muddier they get.

In addition there are some benefits of radial mounting (beyond any bollox about cooling), which the larger brackets give.

I ordered the flow Fr and Rear from Winstanley and some hope QR skewers too.. I didn't like the idea of the v-brake 355 and the flows are only 3.6mm wider and 80g heavier

right no more cash on the bike 'til after xmas