Spokes twanging

Where are my stabilisers?

Hi Guys,

My rear wheel is making a bit of a twang/clang noise when riding - I think it might be the spokes. A couple of them seemed a bit loose when I checked them.

I have no idea about spoke tensions and I'm a bit worried about overtightening them and wrecking the wheel - I take it they all need to be of equal tension?

I have a spoke key - How much should I be turning it for results, do I keep cranking it up till it's tight, or is it a case of quarter turns, half turns etc. Clockwise/anti clockwise.... Or should I see a pro?

Cheers for the advice... again!

nicklouse

no they dont need the same tension.

read wheel building on sheldons site and parktools and the one on here.

then depending on how you feel take it to a bike shop.

Where are my stabilisers?

Ok, thanks, I'll have a look and see how I go!

deviate the great

remember to stress the spokes by laying the wheel down and gently applying pressuer all the way around until the pinging stops. works for me!

Chunkers1980

deviate the great wrote:

remember to stress the spokes by laying the wheel down and gently applying pressuer all the way around until the pinging stops. works for me!

]

Should not really do that. Put a think glove on and grab handfuls of spokes instead, this will align them better. There should be near zero 'twang' on first ride.

Where are my stabilisers?

Ok, I'm gonna have a go and I'm looking for near zero twang

Can't believe I'm having problems with the wheel already - it's only a few months old and I wouldn't say it's had that much of a battering!

switchback18

This is probably not needed but on just on the off-chance..
My front was making noises, but was straight, so the other day I thought I'd have a good look at it - I re-tensioned it, but on the way found that where the spokes cross there were really slight indents, just enough that as the wheel flexes under normal riding the spokes were pinging in & out of the indents. A re- tension did help, the noise has pretty much gone, but it's just something worth checking just in case. I can only guess that certain dirt wears spokes as they rub! Never had it before with silver spokes, these are black. Shouldn't make a difference though I guess.

I guess there will be people saying replace the spokes, which I will at some point, but I've never had one snap, not even rear ones that have been chewed by the chain, although they always get replaced.

[edit] - new wheels can often play up, factory built ones are often not great & hand built ones will make the odd noise if they haven't been pre-stressed in the build.

Where are my stabilisers?

I was thinking "newness" could be an issue, I suppose like everything, there can be a bedding in process - getting the tension right.

I'll have a good look first and if I see anything odd, I'll get the shop to check them out.

Cheers guys

ride_whenever

properly tensioned and well built wheels don't bed in on the spokes, the bearings might soften in a bit though.

frogstomp

My bike 'twanged' a bit when I frist got it - at first I thought it was gravel pinging in the spokes!

A few rides and miles later the noise has gone..

supersonic

Stress relieveing does not 'bed' in spokes or nipples - high enough and correct tension does that all on its own.

Most factory built wheels twang a bit because they are simply not tensioned as high as handbuilt wheels.

switchback18

If you don't stress relieve a wheel when it's built, it does tend to creak when you first ride it, because the spokes have a tendancy to twist slightly. The pressure with weight on it will then cause the spokes to untwist & find their normal places. This is minimised by turning the nipples past the point you want them slightly, then back again. Then stress relieving always seems to get rid of it altogether. I reckon theoretically the tension might bed in the spokes & nipples, but in practice I don't think it does. However, maybe a bigger cause is that the bend in the spokes often doesn't sit well in against the flange in the hub. The tension in even a good, tight handbuilt wheel doesn't sort this instantly, and will result in the wheel going out of true when it's ridden, due to the spokes settling in against the flanges. What I do is to press the spokes into the natural position they want to be in, so that they line up. It's usually only the outside spokes that need it.
In the past I've had hand built shop wheels that have seemed tight but gone badly out of true in a couple of days. That was a long time ago, so the shop doesn't need naming... I've built wheels for about the last 18 years now, and using these methods have never needed to retrue after any 'settling in' period, whereas some shops will tell people to come back for them to be checked. Oiling the nipples/threads also helps, but there's many different opinions, all from top builders on which bit to oil if any.

As sonic says, most, if not all factory built wheels are not tight enough. Regardless of any bedding in issues, a wheel that's not tight will go out of true or fail completely way before a wheel with good tension.

supersonic

That is why I mentioned 'correctly' tensioned spokes, as a builder will take any twist and wind out in the tensioning stage.

'Stress relieving', at least in the way applied to bike spokes (Jobst Brandt was the first to do it) temporarily takes the spoke past its elastic limit to reduce any residual stress build up. This makes the spokes stronger and less likely to break from fatigue. He does point out (quite strongly!) that it has nothing to do with wind up or spokes bedding it, but I do agree that it can dewind spokes, but is best to build correctly to start with.

Where are my stabilisers?

Well I've had a bash - took my wheel off and made some adjustments to a few spokes. A couple seemed really quite loose, so bit by bit, I tightened them until they felt a bit more like the others. Had a quick ride around outside and the noise appears to have gone.

I'll take it for a proper spin tomorrow and see how it goes after that. Hopefully, the problem is resolved, but I'll get the shop to check it over to make sure!

Cheers

switchback18

supersonic wrote:

That is why I mentioned 'correctly' tensioned spokes, as a builder will take any twist and wind out in the tensioning stage.

'Stress relieving', at least in the way applied to bike spokes (Jobst Brandt was the first to do it) temporarily takes the spoke past its elastic limit to reduce any residual stress build up. This makes the spokes stronger and less likely to break from fatigue. He does point out (quite strongly!) that it has nothing to do with wind up or spokes bedding it, but I do agree that it can dewind spokes, but is best to build correctly to start with.

All good points. Don't disagree with that - I wasn't aware that this was the reason for stress relieving, just knew that in practice it makes a better wheel. The twist I was talking about isn't a whole lot, prob about 1/8th turn that remains sometimes. And also, for me it's more something that speeds things up before the final adjustments. When you're looking to get the wheel true to as precise as possible, you're making final adjustments that are quite small, so you end up with a wheel that's not going to ping.

And, yes, although stretching the spokes will remove any twist, that in itself will alter the tension, so it needs checking again.

Where are my stabilisers? wrote:

Well I've had a bash - took my wheel off and made some adjustments to a few spokes. A couple seemed really quite loose, so bit by bit, I tightened them until they felt a bit more like the others. Had a quick ride around outside and the noise appears to have gone.

I'll take it for a proper spin tomorrow and see how it goes after that. Hopefully, the problem is resolved, but I'll get the shop to check it over to make sure!

Cheers

Cool, glad it seems to have workded. You can use a zip-tie on the frame as a bodge gauge to check that it's true after the adjustments you've made.

ride_whenever

You can get a lot more than that... on the bladed spokes i used i was getting a lot of twist, 1/2 a revolution and even more, easy to take out though!

switchback18

ride_whenever wrote:

You can get a lot more than that... on the bladed spokes i used i was getting a lot of twist, 1/2 a revolution and even more, easy to take out though!

Yeh, I'm sure it's possible! I was meaning if you're careful you might be left with a bit. But if it's a competition...