copper grease

Didzy2009

ive heard this should cure intolerable brake squeal im getting? ive tried all other ways of getting rid of it and everything seems ok...so my next cheap alternative trial is to get some copper grease and try that on the backings of the pads..

brakes are hope tech x2's, do you just liberally apply some on the backing of the pads? avoiding the holes of course and avoiding contacting it with anything else....

any info and success stories much appreciated

please help im at the end of my tether with this one

nicklouse

read the post in the FAQs?
read the topic in the BR workshop, link found in the teck links sticky?

some brake/brake pad makers say not to use any grease/paste on the back of the pads as it can get into the friction material.

thelonegroover

Could you post the links to:
BR workshop ?
teck links sticky?

thanks

The Rookie

FGS both stickies are at the top of this forum listing - its not rocket science!

Simon

ride_whenever

hope say no to copper grease on the back of the pads. It's a motorbiking/car thing, which is okay there because the brakes run a lot hotter, but push bikes don't generate enough heat to burn the grease off.

Didzy2009

so has anyone got first hand use of this copper grease? with any experiences to report?

i can see the sticky threads but its about 60 pages long or so.....

Anonymous

Didzy2009 wrote:

so has anyone got first hand use of this copper grease? with any experiences to report?

i can see the sticky threads but its about 60 pages long or so.....

Tried it on Hope C2s many many moons ago. It ruined the pads.

nicklouse

Didzy2009 wrote:

so has anyone got first hand use of this copper grease? with any experiences to report?

i can see the sticky threads but its about 60 pages long or so.....

yes i have replace many a set of ruined pads.


http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/w ... king-22829

Didzy2009

did the squeal stop though haha! i will try my upmost to keep it away from pads....

hope have also suggested not doing this for that reason but they didnt have to listen to bloody noise for 2 hours last night when braking

Buckled_Rims

Didzy2009 wrote:

so has anyone got first hand use of this copper grease? with any experiences to report?

i can see the sticky threads but its about 60 pages long or so.....

I got Hope M4's and the rear brake badly squealed. I read NOT to use copper grease, but even after pulling them apart and degreased, cleaned etc, they still squealed.

I tend to ignore advice if all else fails, at the end of the day if I make a mistake or damage my own equipment...tough luck :!: So I smeared a small bit of Copper grease on, after a day they stopped squealing. As the pads were fairly new, I haven't checked the condition for almost 8 months now.

As someone mentioned, copper grease "might" damage the pads.

Didzy2009

now thats the sort of reply i was after 8) :P

yeah im at that point where if it knackers the pads then so be it, its worth a 10er to get rid of the noise.....

have you got any advice on putting the copper grease like how much to put on more so and where exacltly?

if your pads are still going strong and working normally 8 months on then it did the trick for you brilliantly!

cheers for the reply, look forward to your next one

Anonymous

Didzy2009 wrote:

now thats the sort of reply i was after 8) :P

yeah im at that point where if it knackers the pads then so be it, its worth a 10er to get rid of the noise.....

have you got any advice on putting the copper grease like how much to put on more so and where exacltly?

if your pads are still going strong and working normally 8 months on then it did the trick for you brilliantly!

cheers for the reply, look forward to your next one

So, you didn't REALLY want advice, you just wanted one person to tell you to go ahead.
what's the point of starting a thread then?

Didzy2009

yeehaamcgee wrote:

show previous quotes

Didzy2009 wrote:

now thats the sort of reply i was after 8) :P

yeah im at that point where if it knackers the pads then so be it, its worth a 10er to get rid of the noise.....

have you got any advice on putting the copper grease like how much to put on more so and where exacltly?

if your pads are still going strong and working normally 8 months on then it did the trick for you brilliantly!

cheers for the reply, look forward to your next one

So, you didn't REALLY want advice, you just wanted one person to tell you to go ahead.
what's the point of starting a thread then?

i wanted advice of course, i wanted peoples opinions who have done it already whether failed attempts or succesful attemps......i know people try and point you in the direction of the general brake disc rules for squealing but ive tried everything else......

if this guy has done it succesfully then of course its the sort of reply i wanted.....

if anyones had any bad experiences then of course id like to know them too....

Anonymous

I've already given you one bad example. Nick's given you his experience of ruined brakes coming into the shop where he works.

Didzy2009

yeah which is what im after, of course his reply is what i WANT TO HEAR as it was succesful, ill just try and be super careful with the copper grease, i was going to do it regardless i was just after some pointers and guidance and also other people dealings with it.....sorry if i offended

Buckled_Rims

Didzy2009 wrote:

now thats the sort of reply i was after 8) :P

yeah im at that point where if it knackers the pads then so be it, its worth a 10er to get rid of the noise.....

have you got any advice on putting the copper grease like how much to put on more so and where exacltly?

if your pads are still going strong and working normally 8 months on then it did the trick for you brilliantly!

cheers for the reply, look forward to your next one

I'll take the rear pads out later on (I'm at work now) and have a good look at the result/damage. I can't remember exactly where I placed the grease but it was only a smidgen and a wipe of it.

Didzy2009

thats brill any more info feel free to post thanks again....im gonna try it tonight also ......hopefully will have squeal free brakes come sunday

should the squeal be eliminated instantly when riding or does it take time to bed in??

cheers for your responses guys really appreciate it!

Dagowly83

I'm confused how copper grease can seep through the metal back plate of a pad and into the friction material?? Copper grease has a great tolerance to heat, which is why its great for car brakes, it doesn't 'melt'. I've had my old evo brakes glowing red hot on track days and the copper grease is just where i put it on inspection when stripping the brakes down. On an MTB, if its getting into your friction material, you're either using it too sparingly, or you're not putting it in the correct place.

A cause for noisy brakes, as i've said before, is friction pad material. If its a very hard compound or a high ceramic content it will squeal. Not a lot can be done, but if you make sure the pads are sitting comfortably, they can move freely with little effort and they have some sort of high temp lube on the back plate against the piston (copper grease), it should begin to eliminate it.

nicklouse

Dagowly83
it is the grease part. as some pads have open spaces to allow the bonding.

take a car or a MC and look at the back of the pads that have been copper greased. they are dry as the grease part has burnt off.

on a pushbike it just does not happen.

setting up the brakes correctly and not getting crap on the rotor and pads is the best way (also keeping them clean) of reducing the noises.

Anonymous

Dagowly83 wrote:

I'm confused how copper grease can seep through the metal back plate of a pad and into the friction material?? Copper grease has a great tolerance to heat, which is why its great for car brakes, it doesn't 'melt'. I've had my old evo brakes glowing red hot on track days and the copper grease is just where i put it on inspection when stripping the brakes down. On an MTB, if its getting into your friction material, you're either using it too sparingly, or you're not putting it in the correct place.

A cause for noisy brakes, as i've said before, is friction pad material. If its a very hard compound or a high ceramic content it will squeal. Not a lot can be done, but if you make sure the pads are sitting comfortably, they can move freely with little effort and they have some sort of high temp lube on the back plate against the piston (copper grease), it should begin to eliminate it.

The grease works it's way into the material, because some MTB brake pads have holes in the backing that the braking material "keys" into. It migrates through these holes, into the friction material.

rapid_uphill

i have used copper grease, it doesnt stop squeeking if your pads are infected its easier just to get new pads.

Buckled_Rims

OK, this has got me curious, so I striped the pads off on my dinner brake ...er, break I couldn't have put much copper grease on coz there's none left on. I remember, now I can see it, that I place a small dob of grease on each of the 4 pots per caliper as I assumed that maybe the pistons were vibrating, thus causing the squeal.

Here's the photos take on a borrowed camera, sorry for the blur.



and the pads, which show no deterioration.



As said, they've been on since about Easter.

I might be the lucky punk that gotta away!

Didzy2009

ahh cheers bud! super, still look pretty alive to me, im guessing your performance hasnt dropped any in them other than the general time scale wear and tear....

well ive gotta give it a shot defo now, will try tonight and hopefully report back with good news

thelonegroover

Which is worst, squealing brakes or the chance you might have to buy some new pads? You could always try putting something else behind the pad, like grease proof oven paper!

dave_hill

ride_whenever wrote:

hope say no to copper grease on the back of the pads. It's a motorbiking/car thing.

Copper grease has a far higher melting point than ordinary lithium/molybdenum grease which is why it is used on brake parts to prevent seizing and squealing. "ordinary" grease would boil away to nothing within one or two revolutions of the wheel.

ride_whenever wrote:

The brakes run a lot hotter but push bikes don't generate enough heat to burn the grease off.

You reckon? Ever tried touching your brake discs after a long descent? Go on, I dare you. I double dare you. If you're too chicken, try squirting your camelbak hose at them.

I use copper grease on Hayes pads with no trouble at all. Only a thin smear ont he back mind, it's not slathered on.

Anonymous

dave-hill, you're an idiot. Where did he say pushbike brakes don't get hot at all?
He said they don't get hot enough to boil grease.

EDIT:
on reading it back, that seems a bit harsh, sorry, I meant it more of a "you silly boy" kind of thing.

richg1979

you can buy proper anti sqeal paste that you put on the back of pads, it contains no grease that can harm friction material. its usually blue and like a gel that turns tacky 2 mins after application.

you can also file a lead on the leading edge on the front and back of the friction pad.

bamba

ive spent most of my time in the motor trade and understand why/when to use copper grease, after taking my pads out on my bike i think the area is way too small to be using any grease given the proximity to the friction surfaces, any splash of water will result in contamination.
mine will squeal at some points after an outing but a quick clean up with some emery cloth (pads and disc)will sort them, a quick clean after any muddy outing should be done anyway imo to avoid future problems.

check your pads are returning after being applyied, ie is a piston partially seized ?

or as other folk have said try a different pad make or compound as this is normally a cause (cheap pads) on cars

or may be it your braking style ? ? can continuse dragging of the brake cause this

The Great Stonk

the easiest way to rid yourself of brake squeel is to change to a different brand/compound of pad...

the harder the pad the more the tendancy to squeel and vibrate, sintered pads are rock 'ard and last like no other.

try a switch to organic pads or kevlar compounds. ebc red's can stop a train... quietly.

dave_hill

yeehaamcgee wrote:

He said they don't get hot enough to boil grease.

No he didn't. Read his post again. And if they can get hot enough to boil the fluid, they certainly can get hot enough to boil (or burn) grease.

yeehaamcgee wrote:

on reading it back, that seems a bit harsh, sorry, I meant it more of a "you silly boy" kind of thing.

Engage brain before opening mouth, eh?

Anonymous

the best way to get rid of squeal is to set your calipers properly, if they squeal when you apply the brake when its wet, i would say this is normal, if they squeal when you apply the brake in the dry, id say you need new pads for some reason. if they squeal all the time, the brakes need setting up correctly.

if you are prepared to replace your pads if they get contaminated when you try the grease then good luck to you.

in my experience, if we were supposed to be using some type of grease on our brakes, they would come supplied with it or the instructions would tell you to. if the noise is intolerable for you and this was normal, everyone would be reporting it.

id wager grease is not the word.