Your Santa Cruz bike is really a Giant

Naveed

I just read that Santa Cruz frames are contracted out to Giant Bicycles who make their frames. I found this out on the mba action website. I was quite surprised but at the same time pleased because Giant make some of the best aluminium frames in the business. I'm aware that Santa Cruz have another manufacturer who makes their carbon frames.

I don't know if they use their alux aluminium technology to make the frames but at least it's bound to be top quality. The whole thing did make me think; you can buy a Giant Anthem frameset or a Trance frameset for under a grand, whereas the Santa Cruz frames will cost the best part of £1700.

To me it highlights the imaging of SC bikes and what people are prepared to pay to have the right look.

At the end of the day you're riding a Giant bike...

supersonic

Giant make bikes for many other companies too - they have one of the world's largest (if not THE largest) frame building facilities and leading equipment. Similarly with Merida.

These are known as 'vendors'. Other examples are Spinner making some RS forks, Suntour with Marzocchi, and RST who build forks for many.

However they are to the original companies designs who will have done the research, development and testing and in the case of Santa Cruz use the patented VPP design in some set ups.

GHill

That is assuming that one set of tubes welded together rides exactly the same as another set of tubes welded together in a slightly different pattern.

MacAndCheese

Interesting...
Giant Anthem is equivalent to Superlight which is £1200..but still that's £200!

I still want a Santa Cruz Chameleon though!

Naveed

To be honest I'm really pleased I got a Giant frameset as the quality is superb but I do wonder about the economics about going for a boutique bike instead of a major manufacturer.

If you go major your get
- Some of the best R&D tested products
- A safer product due to stringent failure standards
- Cheaper price
- Usually a lifetime warranty
- Trickledown technology

If you go boutique you get
- Warranty of 3 years ish
- A good frame albeit one that hasn't had the same level of r&d and failure testing and research
- A cool design
- Chance of getting a custom frame
- Wide range of colours

All in all, you get less bang for your buck but more street cred - guess it all evens out.

blorg

Giant is by far the largest bike manufacturer in the world. They make bikes for a lot of other manufacturers.

Merida make much of Specialized, they also own half of the company.

There is an interesting list here, mainly dealing with carbon.

GHill

Good points Naveed, but more R&D doesn't always equate to a better ride. The safety standards part sounds like an assumption too, some boutique brands (Ragley is the one I'm thinking of) have frames that pass the most stringent checks.


EDIT: And of course Ragley frames are made in Taiwan, not in a shed in Calderdale.

jay12

sort of, but they have different rear suspension set ups e.g the giant uses maestro suspension design

Naveed

Ghill

I agree with you completely. Both major brands and boutique bike makers have their own unique selling points.

The major brands kind of play on the insecurity angle whereas the boutique bike seller plays on the angle of major brand's being governed by what sells instead of making the best bike possible.

I think both sides have more in common than they think and to be honest I've seen more recall notices for major brands than boutique brands.

The bottom line for me is that mtbing is a great sport that should be available to as many people as possible, this is not possible for boutique frames which cost 2-3k.

A novice can get into mtbing buy buying an entry level Giant Yukon, Anthem or Trance for less than a grand. It would be a fully built bike that would no doubt introduce them to the sport.

Sad thing is if they encountered a rider riding the latest SC Nomad they might get laughed at and made to feel inadequate.

Value for money is the future for mtbing.

P-Jay

Yeah it's pretty much common knowledge. Tbh the factory they build them in is world class for welding, the cost of a bike frame (I would guess) is less than half for materials and construction. The rest is R&D, marketing, racing teams etc etc.

I had a nice email from a lady at Cove once (don't ask) who told me that my Shocker was 100% built, designed & painted by Cove in Deep Cove BC.... She forgot to mention that all the frame tubes are made by Easton in the far east.

supersonic

"Sad thing is if they encountered a rider riding the latest SC Nomad they might get laughed at and made to feel inadequate."

This is a somewhat different angle though.

GHill

Naveed wrote:

The major brands kind of play on the insecurity angle whereas the boutique bike seller plays on the angle of major brand's being governed by what sells instead of making the best bike possible.

I think both sides have more in common than they think and to be honest I've seen more recall notices for major brands than boutique brands.

The bottom line for me is that mtbing is a great sport that should be available to as many people as possible, this is not possible for boutique frames which cost 2-3k.

Again, good points.

The fact that we have the choice of spending all that money on a boutique frame or buying something a lot cheaper is a good thing to my mind - more choice = better in this case. I also think it's important (to some extent) to have an idea of what you're getting (is it handbuilt/welded by a guy in a shed or made in Taiwan) to make a good purchasing decision.

Snobbery and the inverse (I'm not sure jealousy is 100% what I mean) is a different issue though.

Naveed

supersonic wrote:

"Sad thing is if they encountered a rider riding the latest SC Nomad they might get laughed at and made to feel inadequate."

This is a somewhat different angle though.

You're right Super sorry... I meant that both sides of the bike building process cater to different riders.

robertpb

In the distant mists of time when Giant first brought their mountain bikes to the UK.

I remember going to the London bike show and people saying who the hell are they, just far east junk, until it was pointed out that many of the top bikes there were made at the Giant factory.

delcol

my santacruz says on the sticker manuctured in Malaysia assembled in usa,,

supersonic

A bit like Townsend cycles - made in Asia, some bits assembled in UK ;-)

delcol

lol,, townsend had 2 massive assembly plants in my home town..

a few of my mates used to work there, not mention my nextdoor neighbour..

adydow

Lets hope Giant dont have the same problems with Bearings as Santa Cruz which are bloody crap IMO.

Anonymous

I don't know where Marin sit in terms of "big" or "small" - I'm guessing Big brand, small company.

Anyway, I thought it was pretty reassuring to see a brand as well known as them totally pull the plug on their (fugly) Alchemist frame because it wasn't meeting their design & performance criteria.
The cynic in me believes that many lesser companies would have ploughed on regardless, and re-marketed it to suit.

Andy

Naveed wrote:

To be honest I'm really pleased I got a Giant frameset as the quality is superb but I do wonder about the economics about going for a boutique bike instead of a major manufacturer.

If you go major your get
- Some of the best R&D tested products
- A safer product due to stringent failure standards
- Cheaper price
- Usually a lifetime warranty
- Trickledown technology

If you go boutique you get
- Warranty of 3 years ish
- A good frame albeit one that hasn't had the same level of r&d and failure testing and research
- A cool design
- Chance of getting a custom frame
- Wide range of colours

All in all, you get less bang for your buck but more street cred - guess it all evens out.

You can't just present your own opinions and assumptions as fact.

colintrav

Naveed wrote:

I just read that Santa Cruz frames are contracted out to Giant Bicycles who make their frames. I found this out on the mba action website. I was quite surprised but at the same time pleased because Giant make some of the best aluminium frames in the business. I'm aware that Santa Cruz have another manufacturer who makes their carbon frames.

I don't know if they use their alux aluminium technology to make the frames but at least it's bound to be top quality. The whole thing did make me think; you can buy a Giant Anthem frameset or a Trance frameset for under a grand, whereas the Santa Cruz frames will cost the best part of £1700.

To me it highlights the imaging of SC bikes and what people are prepared to pay to have the right look.

At the end of the day you're riding a Giant bike...

All they are doing is what some car companies do ...

Cutting corners , saving time and cost's overheads

It's the same getting the Chinese to make yer toy cars , Clothes , trainers , shoes cos they don;t wanna pay some western worker a Better wage .. when they can make more profit from out sourcing the job ..

delcol

Lets hope Giant dont have the same problems with Bearings as Santa Cruz which are bloody crap IMO.

thats why they come with lifetime warenty so they can't be that crap,,,

i had no trouble with mine in 2 years....

nicklouse

and most Carbon frames are made by?

Panasonic.

Anonymous

nicklouse wrote:

and most Carbon frames are made by?

Panasonic.

for real? :shock:

nicklouse

well a lot of Road frames are.