Bikes - 'Level Playing Field'

NervexProf

An extract from the 'Times' today:

'If beating Britain on the track does not work, the authorities have another plot. The UCI, cycling’s world governing body, is planning to introduce a rule from January 1 that all competition bikes are available for sale in an effort to rein in the exotic prototypes that have been propelling Team GB to such staggering success.
Britain’s prowess at blending man — and woman — and machine has been the envy of the world and plenty in the sport believe that this is a last-ditch attempt to curb their domination.
But Brailsford dismissed the threat, confident that his team, a heady blend of daring youth and powerful experience, could beat anyone — and on any machine.
“We are quite happy to share our technology,” he said. “We will share whatever we have got. I can’t share what I have got in my head, but we can go back to everybody rides the same skinsuits and the same bikes and I still think we would win'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 898732.ece

I take it this ruling will apply to the Road as well?

Will it make much difference?

symo

UCI thus confirming their status as worlds worst sports governing body. Finally killing all innovation in bike design.

When was the last anyone saw any of the fat assh0les who sit on the UCI actually on a bike?

frenchfighter

Good news I guess as the playing field isn't level. There are proponents of the 'technology advantages are part of the game' but I am not one of them. A true champion doesn't need those to win. As an aside, I think Hoy would destroy anyone whatever he had to ride.

The problem is people like Boardman who do not like cycling (believe it or not, I read this by someone in the know whose name slips my mind) as more of a project guy. No class. The difference with someone like Wiggins is that he is an actual fan of the sport and wants to be a legend.

andyp

frenchfighter wrote:

The problem is people like Boardman who do not like cycling (believe it or not, I read this by someone in the know whose name slips my mind) as more of a project guy. No class. The difference with someone like Wiggins is that he is an actual fan of the sport and wants to be a legend.

Are you for real?

Chris Boardman doesn't like cycling? WTF? Do you know anything about him, where he comes from, what he does?

graeme_s-2

I think it's a shame, but Brailsford is right, this is just one of the several areas that GB excel in. Over the weekend at the World Cup we won both gold and silver in the men's team sprint, annihilated the Spanish to win the men's team pursuit and set a world record in the women's team pursuit. That's not all down to fancy bikes and skin suits!

disgruntledgoat

frenchfighter wrote:

Good news I guess as the playing field isn't level. There are proponents of the 'technology advantages are part of the game' but I am not one of them. A true champion doesn't need those to win. As an aside, I think Hoy would destroy anyone whatever they had to ride.

The problem is people like Boardman who do not like cycling (believe it or not, I read this by someone in the know whose name slips my mind) as more of a project guy. No class. The difference with someone like Wiggins is that he is an actual fan of the sport and wants to be a legend.

I've also heard that Boardman doesn't much like cycling, but maybe that's because his public utterances were just moaning about how hard it was... However, to be involved at the top level for 20 years, work in TV and then bring out yer own line of bikes, he must have something for it.

That's generally the thing with guys who win though. They don't like the sport, they like winning and what they do is merely an outlet for that passion.

frenchfighter

Andy this surprised me to yet it was said by Shane Sutton (not 100% sure on this - I will have to check).

frenchfighter

He was making the comparison with Wiggins who is an ardent fan. He gave the example of him coming home as a kid in his school lunch break to watch the Kellogg's crits - this shows serious interest.

andyp

Personally I think this sounds like sense from the UCI. Their issue with bike technology is to do with equal opportunity, i.e. a rider from a poorer nation should have access to the same bike technology as a rider from a richer nation. Restricting all riders to bikes that are commercially available is a relatively simple way of achieving this.

Team GB have a simple way of complying too, they can simply make the bikes they have commercially available.

andyp

frenchfighter wrote:

He was making the comparison with Wiggins who is an ardent fan. He gave the example of him coming home as a kid in his school lunch break to watch the Kellogg's crits - this shows serious interest.

Chris Boardman has been involved with cycling since he was a kid. Both his parents were club riders and he competed from a young age. He's been involved in bringing sponsors into the sport for well over 20 years, has launched a successful bike brand and still rides a bike.

That doesn't look like the bio of someone who doesn't like cycling.

frenchfighter

Thanks for the history lesson. Go and talk to Shane Sutton if you have issues with what he said (again I need to check this).

cee

disgruntledgoat wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

That's generally the thing with guys who win though. They don't like the sport, they like winning and what they do is merely an outlet for that passion.

agreed.

Valentino Rossi (superbike god) has stated numerous times that he doesn't like motorbikes. would rather drive a car.....but put him on a big machine and he blitzes the field.

cal_stewart

Does that mean teams can't test a prototype in comp till jo public can buy it down the LBS. Like say the way radobank and saxo bank tested the new TT bikes this year. I think its a backwards step like making Moto Gp into World Superbikes in terms of kit

andyp

I don't have issues with Shane Sutton, but I do have an issue with you. You reported something as hearsay, i.e. you cannot provide a direct quote, then back that up with a comment, 'no class', that is personal opinion from you, not Shane Sutton.

If anyone is demonstrating a lack of class around here, it's you.

frenchfighter

LOL. Am I not allowed to have an opinion on a rider...well hard luck because I have one on most and will voice them when I like.

Don't try and twist things - the only thing I attributed to SS was that CB didn't like cycling not that he had no class. Accuracy.

frenchfighter

Oh. My signature should give you an idea about what I think about 'technology'...it's all about the legs. True Champions.

Pokerface

Cal_Stewart wrote:

Does that mean teams can't test a prototype in comp till jo public can buy it down the LBS. Like say the way radobank and saxo bank tested the new TT bikes this year. /quote]

I would imagine the rule would be similar to the road rule - where the technology has to be commercially available "at some realistic point in the future".

Astana also rode new Trek prototypes at the Tour this year. Many riders use prototype groupsets and parts also.

I'm not sure if the UCI rule specifies WHEN they have to be commercially available - but they don't have to be on the market at the same time the Pros are using them.

calvjones

frenchfighter wrote:

Good news I guess as the playing field isn't level. There are proponents of the 'technology advantages are part of the game' but I am not one of them. A true champion doesn't need those to win. As an aside, I think Hoy would destroy anyone whatever they had to ride.

The problem is people like Boardman who do not like cycling (believe it or not, I read this by someone in the know whose name slips my mind) as more of a project guy. No class. The difference with someone like Wiggins is that he is an actual fan of the sport and wants to be a legend.

So because Muhammad Ali didn't like cycling he had no class? Ghandi? Jesus?

And if you don't think competing and winning clean in the '90s is a measure of true, 100% 24-carat solid gold class, then I'm sorry for you. Ever thought that maybe he liked cycling until he had to win prologues against people like Zulle?

You wouldn't know class if it kicked you in the @rse.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Oh. My signature should give you an idea about what I think about 'technology'...it's all about the legs. True Champions.

I trust you don't have gears or STI/Ergo gear shifters on your bike. Just a back wheel with a sprocket on either side so you can turn it around when you get to a hill.

andyp

frenchfighter wrote:

LOL. Am I not allowed to have an opinion on a rider...well hard luck because I have one on most and will voice them when I like.

Don't try and twist things - the only thing I attributed to SS was that CB didn't like cycling not that he had no class. Accuracy.

I didn't try and twist things, I attributed you correctly.

Maybe you should learn to read? That said, it explains your love of posting images.

Opinions are fine, but to come out with such obvious crap is risible. Sadly, it's typical of your postings on here.

pintoo

back to the point on innovation -

Team GB certainly have an advantage with the bikes they use. Even the smallest advantage is enough to make a difference in elite sports.

A level playing field is a nice idea, but good luck enforcing it.

Make the bikes available to Joe Public? Easily done, as per WRC. Some teams still have a significant advantage, though.

Provide a single platform for all teams to use? Seen that in US motorsport. Doesn't really level the playing field and brings in new forms of innovation (which I do admire).

I just wonder whether it's worth the effort or whether making bike design part of the team's skills is part of the whole appeal - like F1.

And I'm ready to get flamed for quoting motorsport now. Before I do, let's hear it Jenson Button! Yay!!!

Just me then.

frenchfighter

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Oh. My signature should give you an idea about what I think about 'technology'...it's all about the legs. True Champions.

I trust you don't have gears or STI/Ergo gear shifters on your bike. Just a back wheel with a sprocket on either side so you can turn it around when you get to a hill.

This is a silly comment as it is going to the extreme. My point is simply that I care much, much more about the legs and not the bike in terms of going fast. I got good at climbing by riding hill after hill after hill, not by buying upgrades.

With regard to the original post my point is that if there was more equality (I am not asking for total) then I would find it more interesting. Most of the races are foregone conclusions.

disgruntledgoat

frenchfighter wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Oh. My signature should give you an idea about what I think about 'technology'...it's all about the legs. True Champions.

I trust you don't have gears or STI/Ergo gear shifters on your bike. Just a back wheel with a sprocket on either side so you can turn it around when you get to a hill.

This is a silly comment as it is going to the extreme. My point is simply that I care much, much more about the legs and not the bike in terms of going fast. I got good at climbing by riding hill after hill after hill, not by buying upgrades.

With regard to the original post my point is that if there was more equality (I am not asking for total) then I would find it more interesting. Most of the races are foregone conclusions.

Graham Obree once did a lecture at a club event I went too. As is his way he was very much informal, encouraging questions from teh audience, throughout. Every single question was about what equipment would, when purchased, make the questioner faster.

After about an hour Obree snapped and told some bloke that he could save himself the cost of new wheels and stop eating crisps.

The next day he did the club reliaibility trial on a raleigh frame with upright handlebars and a 55 chainring. He still monstered everyone.

frenchfighter

Nice DG. Obree is admirable. I remember something he said about him climbing hills in the big ring to develop power.

takethehighroad

That's Brailsford's point isn't it? That Team GB would still poop all over everyone no matter what they rode, because everything else in the track programme is just so good

Garry H

andyp wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

The problem is people like Boardman who do not like cycling (believe it or not, I read this by someone in the know whose name slips my mind) as more of a project guy. No class. The difference with someone like Wiggins is that he is an actual fan of the sport and wants to be a legend.

Are you for real?

Chris Boardman doesn't like cycling? WTF? Do you know anything about him, where he comes from, what he does?

CB did actually mention that he had no real love for the bike during "The Final Hour" documentary. To paraphrase, he said that he only saw it a means by which he could excel in sports and that he only really cycled for this purpose. Didn't like commuting on it or riding for pleasure. That documentary was quite old though.

frenchfighter

Interesting Garry - I haven't seen it.

Andy, have you seen that documentary? That is from two sources now, one from the man himself.

disgruntledgoat

frenchfighter wrote:

Nice DG. Obree is admirable. I remember something he said about him climbing hills in the big ring to develop power.

It's in his book I think. Well worth a read, if very uncomfortable in parts. He got me started doing the same thing for a while, training for hillclimbs by riding up little hills seated in not just the big ring but the 12 sprocket too. I was just doing it on piddly little hills, of course. Obree was doing it for 5km climbs up in the highlands.

redddraggon

frenchfighter wrote:

Interesting Garry - I haven't seen it.

Andy, have you seen that documentary? That is from two sources now, one from the man himself.

I've seen the documentary.

BikingBernie

Cycling: Boardman ready for his ascent

The Independent.
Friday, 30 June 1995

"I don't like cycling but I found I was good at it. It's painful, dangerous, and goes on for a long time, but I am a natural competitor. I enjoy winning even if I don't enjoy the experience of doing it. Money is not the main consideration. Racing is more a lifestyle, and a way of measuring success."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cycl ... 89110.html

The Man who would be passionate
The Complete Book of Cycling: Chris Boardman (with Andrew Longmore).

...combining a biography of his sporting life with a training manual seems a fitting legacy to the sport on his retirement. And there's a lot of interesting stuff here. Like everyone else I'd prefer Chris to enjoy riding the bike, but claiming not to enjoy it hasn't got in the way of his success

http://www.abcc.co.uk/Reviews/bio_boardman1.html

frenchfighter

Biking Bernie; big hitter. Three sources now.