Seat height, apparently it's not supposed to be like a road

andrewjoseph

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Efficient pedaling action has nothing to do with seated or standing.

yes, please explain.

Anonymous

Efficient pedalling comes from pedalling technique. You can achieve it either seated or standing.

I think I explained it in a somewhat cack-handed manner.

Daz555

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Efficient pedalling comes from pedalling technique. You can achieve it either seated or standing.

I think I explained it in a somewhat cack-handed manner.

Indeed. However when seated, pedaling efficiency is significantly influenced by seat height.

Anonymous

I'm not arguing that at all, Daz.
I was referring to this...

Pedalilng efficiency is more critical over rough ground than it is on fireroads. You can stand up for a while on fireroads, stand up on a rough climb and you will probably loose traction

What I was getting at, is that an efficient pedalling technique, will mean you can stand on rough climbs just fine.

softlad

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Efficient pedalling comes from pedalling technique. You can achieve it either seated or standing.

I think I explained it in a somewhat cack-handed manner.

I'm afraid I'm still none the wiser - do you have any more detail on that..?

Anonymous

erm. Let's tey this then...

You can pedal efficiently whilst seated.
You can also pedal efficiently whilst standing on the pedals, out of the saddle.

This means you can pedal efficiently whilst seated, or standing.

To assume that you must be in only ONE of these positions, in order to pedal efficiently is a fallacy.


Is that clearer?

andrewjoseph

Pedalling while standing takes more energy, reduces load on the rear wheel and so reduces traction. Trying to do so on a rough climb makes things much more difficult than doing so while seated.

Pedalling while standing does not produce the same power through the pedal stroke than pedalling while seated. This is why most coaches will tell you that pedalling while seated, on an mtb or a road bike, is more efficient, especially over long distances.

Watch an mtb event, pro riders will stay seated on climb for as long as they can, only standing for short bursts.

There is a reason why all bike have a saddle, you never see road riders standing up for the whole race.

Pedalling action while standing uses more energy, has a less smooth power output and puts less traction through the back wheel.

handful

I'm rubbish at pedalling 'efficiently' when standing. I get knackered as well in a very short space of time as all I do is mash the gears. I use spds and don't seem to be able to get any pull from the rear leg so can't see any way of completing a smooth 'spin' like I can with a seated position. Any tips on how to achieve this though would be more than welcome mcgee

Anonymous

Andrew, if you're slipping out and losing traction when climbing out of the saddle, it's your technique that's at fault, not the fact that you're standing.

andrewjoseph

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Andrew, if you're slipping out and losing traction when climbing out of the saddle, it's your technique that's at fault, not the fact that you're standing.

Are you serious?

I'm not debating that my technique is not the best, just the fact you believe that you can climb over rough ground standing as well as you can sitting!

I'm not talking gravel or generally lumpy bits, I'm talking rocks and roots, sticks, lumps of mud etc, on steep inclines.

I've got a qualification in coaching and guiding. I had to pass assessments and practical exams. I'm not up there with Oli Becinsales coach but my qualification is not given away free with a packet of cornflakes.

I've had to prove I know what I'm doing. I'm not claiming to be an expert in all things cycling, but I have a fair idea of what I'm talking about, and climbing technique is one of them.

In all the articles and books I have read, they all state to stay seated, sitting right on the nose of the saddle to get every ounce of traction through the back wheel while pedalling.

Now you are telling me that this is all wrong, and it's just poor technique.

Do you have any other evidence for you assertion?

ride_whenever

Whoop-dy-do you're a qualified coach and guide.

For the technical climbing you're describing it's actually easier standing if you're pedalling is smooth because you can move your weight about to climb over debris.

This of course is irrelevant if you're on a light but quite long travel bike. On those you just sit and spin and the bike carries you to the top.

supersonic

It depends on the rider, bike and terrain.

Different techniques will work for some people with these variables.

Anonymous

Yes I'm serious.
A lot of world class XC racers carry their bikes over the rough bits, so I place absolutely no basis on tehnical riding tips from them.

scale20

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Andrew, if you're slipping out and losing traction when climbing out of the saddle, it's your technique that's at fault, not the fact that you're standing.

I agree, A bit of bodyweight over the back wheel while climbing will help the tyre dig in, but you wouldn't want to be in that position for long.

supersonic

I tend to be in and out of the saddle on most fairly technical rocky climbs. Sit and spin the smoother bits, little power wheelies out of the saddle over obstacles, or fully out for bursts of speeds.

jairaj

yeehaamcgee have you got any tips on learning to climb out of the saddle? its useful when you need that extra burst of power but I always loose traction and spin out.

Also don't you get tied quickly standing up all the time? again do you have any tips on getting better at this? Or is it just a case of doing it more and getting stronger and used to doing it?

ravey1981

I have my seat at a height so that with the pedal at the bottom of the stroke my leg has a slight bed in it, you don't want it so high that you're knees are locking out, this is how i've set my seat height for years on all my bikes.

I do drop it when going down really steep stuff, but not all the way down, i dont know why but it just doesnt feel right when its right down...even though when going steep down i'm always standing on the pedals...weird i know...maybe i push on the side of the saddle with my thighs...i dont know to be fair...

As for pedalling standing being as efficient as seated....not true.... to pedal efficiently means you are using your energy in the best possible way. When standing your legs are supporting your entire upper body and this in itself means that you're muscles are under more strain...ie not efficient.

Pedalling technique and pedalling efficiency are linked but not the same thing...its always important to "pedal in circles" and not just mash up and down on the pedals, this will make the tyre more likely to lose traction. Of course if you are going up a REALLY steep climb you may need to stand in order to move you're weight forward.

ravey1981

jairaj

Pedalling standing uphill is all about getting youre weight in the right place, too far forward and your spin, too far back and youre front wheel will want to lift. Try to get youre weight as far over the rear as you can without the front lifting and youre in the right place...

Also as i just said, think about how youre pedalling... try to pedal in smooth circles, this keeps the torque on the back wheel constant and thus its less likely to spin...

Picking a smooth line is also important

softlad

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Andrew, if you're slipping out and losing traction when climbing out of the saddle, it's your technique that's at fault, not the fact that you're standing.

that's such a load of bollox, sorry. I'm completely with Andrew J on this one. This has everythinig to do with weight distribution and far less to do with what you refer to as 'pedalling technique'. There are some loose technical climbs which can only be tackled in the saddle - unless you attack them at such speed that momentum carries you through - in which case it doesn't matter if you are standing, seated or sideways....

Anonymous

softlad, looks like we disagree on this one.

andrewjoseph

Ah, well, each to their own.

CycloRos

I love how everyone attacks each others technique on here, having never seen each other ride

Efficient climbing in my opinion revolves around 4 things -
1. before hitting the climb, read the terrain ahead carrying as much momentum as possible whilst selecting a suitable gear
2. on the climb choose the smoothest path possible maintaining a smooth cadence on the pedals
3. shift your weight according to the steepness of the climb and any trail obstacles
4. keep a positive mindset, prolonged climbing is just as much mental as physical

softlad

CycloRos wrote:

I love how everyone attacks each others technique on here, having never seen each other ride

Efficient climbing in my opinion revolves around 4 things -
1. before hitting the climb, read the terrain ahead carrying as much momentum as possible whilst selecting a suitable gear
2. on the climb choose the smoothest path possible maintaining a smooth cadence on the pedals
3. shift your weight according to the steepness of the climb and any trail obstacles
4. keep a positive mindset, prolonged climbing is just as much mental as physical

do you have a degree in stating the obvious..??

knownoversight

handful wrote:

I'm rubbish at pedalling 'efficiently' when standing. I get knackered as well in a very short space of time as all I do is mash the gears. I use spds and don't seem to be able to get any pull from the rear leg so can't see any way of completing a smooth 'spin' like I can with a seated position. Any tips on how to achieve this though would be more than welcome mcgee

Something which has helped me become a more efficent peddler (on my road bike anyway, I'm just getting back in to mountain biking) is cycling for 30secs with one foot out of the spd. Obviously this only works with peddles you clip in to, but the aim is to not have any clunking. Do 30sec on one leg, then 30secs on the other leg, then repeat (it's a bit of a killer). Do this often enough and you'll build your muscles up to help with pulling as well as pushing on clmibs..

Paulie W

Standing on technical climbs just doenst work for me but I'm able to generate good power whilst seated because I tend to ride in a relatively big gear. I also find it possible to shift my weight quite effectively in the saddle. Standing for me is about short bursts of acceleration and conquering those realllly steep stretches.

CycloRos

softlad wrote:

do you have a degree in stating the obvious..??

the most correct answers often are the most obvious... obviously!

Paulie W

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Yes I'm serious.
A lot of world class XC racers carry their bikes over the rough bits, so I place absolutely no basis on tehnical riding tips from them.

You rarely see this anymore. I used to assume that XC racers were roadies who couldnt quite make it but having watched and done some XC racing over the last few years I'm always surprised at how good most of these guys are technically and most of them will ride in the saddle for pretty much everything.