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strikes, Is there something in the water?

Mark AlexanderMark Alexander Posts: 2,277
edited October 2009 in The bottom bracket
what's with all this striking? first the Posties, then BA flight crews threatening for Christmas and now two universities here in Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/8328322.stm[/list]
http://twitter.com/mgalex
www.ogmorevalleywheelers.co.uk

10TT 24:36 25TT: 57:59 50TT: 2:08:11, 100TT: 4:30:05 12hr 204.... unfinished business

Posts

  • volvicsparvolvicspar Posts: 208
    What we really need is the motorists to go on strike for a few weeks !!! :wink:
    Who is their union again, Top gear ?
  • davieseedaviesee Posts: 6,386
    Labour in charge
    Economy going tits up
    Unemployment rising
    Fuel crisis
    It's a re-run of the 70's.......... :cry:
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • CressersCressers Posts: 1,329
    People can only put up with so much...

    A wave of strikes is long overdue.
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,649
    Strikes these days, generally speaking, seem to be from public bodies (BA excepted). Unfortunately, having worked in public and private sectors, those in public sector (or to be precise their Union officials) seem to live in a parallel universe. Those of us in the private sector jobs at the moment are happy to have a job even with a 10% paycut and loss of pension contributions.

    Right, grabbing my tin hat and running for cover before the tirade from public sector workers! :wink:
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Mark Alexander wrote:
    what's with all this striking? first the Posties, then BA flight crews threatening for Christmas and now two universities here in Wales.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/8328322.stm[/list]

    Who gives a 5hit about Uni's and students ?
  • Stewie GriffinStewie Griffin Posts: 4,330
    Pross wrote:
    Strikes these days, generally speaking, seem to be from public bodies (BA excepted). Unfortunately, having worked in public and private sectors, those in public sector (or to be precise their Union officials) seem to live in a parallel universe. Those of us in the private sector jobs at the moment are happy to have a job even with a 10% paycut and loss of pension contributions.

    Right, grabbing my tin hat and running for cover before the tirade from public sector workers! :wink:

    Im Public Sector and am not and will never be in a Union. I was an Agency Temp during the last round of strikes and they pressured us to not got to work. I advised them that I was an Agency Temp and as such had no job security at all and therefore "had" to go to work. But you dont have to go in today Sir as there is a Strike on, what bit of Im an Agency Temp and will therefore be fired if I go on Strike dont you understand you effing nobhead? Then the next day, to avoid the same thing I tried to get in through another entrance, only to have an unidentified Man stand across the gate in front of me as I approached "Locked mate you have to go around the other way", no it isnt I advised and went to walk past him "its locked today mate" eyeballing me, I advised him that I knew that his was an illegal picket and that if he tried again to physically stop me from entering then he might get hurt in the tussle that would definately follow and as this was an illegal picket that he wouldnt be calling the Police if he got hurt would he :twisted: . He got out of my way.

    Whenever I see a Union General Secretary on TV (Bob Crow particularly) carping on about looking out for his Brothers I almost want to smash my own TV. Have you any idea of how much Union Bosses earn :shock: ?
  • beverickbeverick Posts: 3,461
    It's a short term ploy to get as much out of the Labour government whilst it lumbers to the next election. Net of the teachers, who I wholly expect to be on strike from easter, there'll then be a short gap between the election and the same unions trying their arm with the next government.

    So watch out for a repeat performance next winter.

    Bob
  • jedsterjedster Posts: 1,717
    People can only put up with so much...

    A wave of strikes is long overdue.

    Oh dear. I have bad news for you. We're in a nasty recession but if you think people have put up with a lot so far then you are going to be sadly disappointed by the next ten years.

    From 2003-2008 we "enjoyed" artificially benign conditions due to a massive and unsustainable rise in debt (private and public). This allowed pretty good wage growth and even higher rises in consumption (buying stuff, leisure spending, etc). The worst effects of the recession have been offset by government pumping money in to the economy.

    For the next 10 years we will be paying down debt - public and private. Wage growth will be weak, taxes will rise, people will have to put more aside for retirement... it's going to be tough.

    Striking is not going to fix any of that because THERE ISNT ANY MONEY.

    If you think people have put up with a lot so far and that strikes are the answer you are utterly deluded...

    J
  • CressersCressers Posts: 1,329
    Far from being deluded I know how bad things are going to be. In fact I believe that they will be even worse than most of you can imagine. The news that the US economy 'grew' by 3.5% in Q3 is a warning that, as I feared, the US and UK govts have set off a surge of hyper-inflation in a (failed) bid to avoid the inevitable.

    That said, the fact that workers are now striking to protect their wages and working conditions is no bad thing.
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    Stewie Griffin wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Strikes these days, generally speaking, seem to be from public bodies (BA excepted). Unfortunately, having worked in public and private sectors, those in public sector (or to be precise their Union officials) seem to live in a parallel universe. Those of us in the private sector jobs at the moment are happy to have a job even with a 10% paycut and loss of pension contributions.

    Right, grabbing my tin hat and running for cover before the tirade from public sector workers! :wink:

    Im Public Sector and am not and will never be in a Union. I was an Agency Temp during the last round of strikes and they pressured us to not got to work. I advised them that I was an Agency Temp and as such had no job security at all and therefore "had" to go to work. But you dont have to go in today Sir as there is a Strike on, what bit of Im an Agency Temp and will therefore be fired if I go on Strike dont you understand you effing nobhead? Then the next day, to avoid the same thing I tried to get in through another entrance, only to have an unidentified Man stand across the gate in front of me as I approached "Locked mate you have to go around the other way", no it isnt I advised and went to walk past him "its locked today mate" eyeballing me, I advised him that I knew that his was an illegal picket and that if he tried again to physically stop me from entering then he might get hurt in the tussle that would definately follow and as this was an illegal picket that he wouldnt be calling the Police if he got hurt would he :twisted: . He got out of my way.

    Whenever I see a Union General Secretary on TV (Bob Crow particularly) carping on about looking out for his Brothers I almost want to smash my own TV. Have you any idea of how much Union Bosses earn :shock: ?

    Which is of course why agency temps should not be allowed - if theres a job to be done it should be filled permanently. Not given to those who have no loyalty to their co workers.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • meenaghmanmeenaghman Posts: 345
    >> Which is of course why agency temps should not be allowed - if theres a job to be done it should be filled permanently. Not given to those who have no loyalty to their co workers. <<

    Ain't that the policy that has FAS, Iarnrod Eireann and HSE in a mess.
    Temp workers in general are brought in to "plug the gap" at busy periods eg. Christmas or Harvesting time. So you advocate keeping these people on even if there's no work.
    How are you going to cover maternity leave may I ask ?
  • CHRISNOIRCHRISNOIR Posts: 1,400
    dmclite wrote:
    Who gives a 5hit about Uni's and students ?
    I do - I work at one.

    *''Work' may be pushing it a bit; I shuffle paper about and look at a screen with the internet on it while pretending I'm not looking at a screen with the internet on it.
  • finchyfinchy Posts: 6,686
    jedster wrote:

    Striking is not going to fix any of that because THERE ISNT ANY MONEY.

    There's enough money for the bankers to start paying themselves massive bonuses again. :x
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    meenaghman wrote:
    >> Which is of course why agency temps should not be allowed - if theres a job to be done it should be filled permanently. Not given to those who have no loyalty to their co workers. <<

    Ain't that the policy that has FAS, Iarnrod Eireann and HSE in a mess.
    Temp workers in general are brought in to "plug the gap" at busy periods eg. Christmas or Harvesting time. So you advocate keeping these people on even if there's no work.
    How are you going to cover maternity leave may I ask ?

    I wouldn't use agency temps but advertise short term contracts or use a bank of people available for short term cover so that the people employed were the direct responsibility of the employer. Not workers employed by a third party.

    FAS, HSE and CIE are examples of incompetent management if you ask me. From Minister responsible on down,fine whilst there is money to hide mistakes but a bit threadbare when examined in today's new reality.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    edited October 2009
    daviesee wrote:
    Labour in charge
    Economy going tits up
    Unemployment rising
    Fuel crisis
    It's a re-run of the 70's.......... :cry:

    I wish it was - I'd be out buying houses!

    The 70s were great though - and I was there - only f*cked by that bunch of crooks who got elected in 1979.
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    johnfinch wrote:
    jedster wrote:

    Striking is not going to fix any of that because THERE ISNT ANY MONEY.

    There's enough money for the bankers to start paying themselves massive bonuses again. :x

    There's never any money in the public sector - even at the height of so-called good times they got completely shafted - maybe that's why they're so pi55ed off now.

    And yeah - enough with the myth of there being no money - when I see house prices come back down to earth and bankers not driving round in Ferrarris then I'll believe it.
  • davieseedaviesee Posts: 6,386
    Porgy wrote:
    daviesee wrote:
    Labour in charge
    Economy going tits up
    Unemployment rising
    Fuel crisis
    It's a re-run of the 70's.......... :cry:

    I wish it was - I'd be out buying houses!

    The 70s were great though - and I was there - only f*cked by that bunch of crooks who got elected in 1979.

    Give it time. For 1979, read 2010.
    There is every chance there will be a time right for plunder in the next 5-10 years.
    If you have any money left :evil:
    Use your past experience well..........
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • jedsterjedster Posts: 1,717
    And yeah - enough with the myth of there being no money - when I see house prices come back down to earth and bankers not driving round in Ferrarris then I'll believe it.

    That's a symptom of governments pumping money into the economy - just wait until that stops...
  • nicensleazynicensleazy Posts: 2,310
    Personally, I see no problem with an official strike. Providing, its justified, which with the Royal Mail case it is. Sadly, governments and private sector etc have tried to abolish unions and why? Well, I'll tell you why, so they can push the work force further, longer hours, less pay and one person doing two peoples jobs. We have the worse working conditions in Europe. The work force should be protected from bullying tactics and managment piss take. However, coming from a small South Wales community, we know all about striking and the hardship it causes for all. What I don't want to see, is the unions running the show and dictating to the owners. Why were they established, for the fair play of the work force, lets not forget that. In these times of hardship, we will see managment, company owners abusing the work force because they think they can get away with it. We have heard it all before, join a union and you will be out of a job! We already have seen more employees taking managment to Employment Tribunals for unfair treatment. In fact, we have seen more ET's this year then ever before!
  • GazzaputtGazzaputt Posts: 3,227
    Top tier managements don't see the human side of the workforce they only see their profit margins.

    Hell knows why when people get in to such position how they loose any thought of humanity side of workforces.
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    jedster wrote:
    And yeah - enough with the myth of there being no money - when I see house prices come back down to earth and bankers not driving round in Ferrarris then I'll believe it.

    That's a symptom of governments pumping money into the economy - just wait until that stops...

    it's also a symptom of people having it in their pockets - if some people are benefitting very well from government stimulation - why not all of us?
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    Gazzaputt wrote:
    Top tier managements don't see the human side of the workforce they only see their profit margins.

    Hell knows why when people get in to such position how they loose any thought of humanity side of workforces.

    dollar signs in their eyes
    private jet
    a house in richmond
    a second house in france

    i can see why

    the fact that many are working hard to own their first house and seeing it drifting further and further away will mean very little to them
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    daviesee wrote:
    Porgy wrote:
    daviesee wrote:
    Labour in charge
    Economy going tits up
    Unemployment rising
    Fuel crisis
    It's a re-run of the 70's.......... :cry:

    I wish it was - I'd be out buying houses!

    The 70s were great though - and I was there - only f*cked by that bunch of crooks who got elected in 1979.

    Give it time. For 1979, read 2010.
    There is every chance there will be a time right for plunder in the next 5-10 years.
    If you have any money left :evil:
    Use your past experience well..........

    my debts will be paid off in 2012 and i have lots of capital

    yes - I'm ready

    stuff socialism - I want my grandchildren to have what i couldn;t give my daughter.
  • skinsonskinson Posts: 362
    Strikes these days, generally speaking, seem to be from public bodies (BA excepted). Unfortunately, having worked in public and private sectors, those in public sector (or to be precise their Union officials) seem to live in a parallel universe. Those of us in the private sector jobs at the moment are happy to have a job even with a 10% paycut and loss of pension contributions.

    Right, grabbing my tin hat and running for cover before the tirade from public sector workers!

    Typical response from some one who hasn't got a clue about what unions have done for this country. How old are you lad? How would you like to go back to working 18 hours a day? How about sending children down the mines? how about working for £1 an hour? It was the unions who did away with all that. It was the unions who put the bloody labour party where they are, and it's the bloody labour party who have crapped on the unions. Don't whine to me about having to take a pay cut, or "we're lucky to have a job" have some balls and be prepared to fight for your rights. You make me sick people like you, you don't know sh1 t about working in the public sector, What's up were you not bright enough to get a job in it? Tell you what crawl back under your stone and come out when the unions and public sector have sorted it all out you whimp
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    skinson wrote:
    Strikes these days, generally speaking, seem to be from public bodies (BA excepted). Unfortunately, having worked in public and private sectors, those in public sector (or to be precise their Union officials) seem to live in a parallel universe. Those of us in the private sector jobs at the moment are happy to have a job even with a 10% paycut and loss of pension contributions.

    Right, grabbing my tin hat and running for cover before the tirade from public sector workers!

    Typical response from some one who hasn't got a clue about what unions have done for this country. How old are you lad? How would you like to go back to working 18 hours a day? How about sending children down the mines? how about working for £1 an hour? It was the unions who did away with all that. It was the unions who put the bloody labour party where they are, and it's the bloody labour party who have crapped on the unions. Don't whine to me about having to take a pay cut, or "we're lucky to have a job" have some balls and be prepared to fight for your rights. You make me sick people like you, you don't know sh1 t about working in the public sector, What's up were you not bright enough to get a job in it? Tell you what crawl back under your stone and come out when the unions and public sector have sorted it all out you whimp

    Good one :D 8)

    Might I add that the reason we don't have regualr rail crashes involving hundreds of people any more is becasue of the unions. I saw a very good internal film put together by my signals department here and basically every advance in railway safety in the past 120 years is thanks to the unions.

    Once public sector workers are defeated then they'll be no more public sector.

    "good" I hear the nitwits shouting - but think about the reality of that for a minute - if you think the corporate sector is corrupt now - well you ain't seen nothing yet.

    Everything will be a commodity to be bought and sold. Politicans and regulators will have no power to curb the excesses - they don't have a lot now. One recession and you lose everything - hospitals go bust/ railways go bust/ nuclear power stations go bust - doesn't bear thinking about really does it?
  • verylonglegsverylonglegs Posts: 3,680
    Porgy wrote:
    skinson wrote:
    Strikes these days, generally speaking, seem to be from public bodies (BA excepted). Unfortunately, having worked in public and private sectors, those in public sector (or to be precise their Union officials) seem to live in a parallel universe. Those of us in the private sector jobs at the moment are happy to have a job even with a 10% paycut and loss of pension contributions.

    Right, grabbing my tin hat and running for cover before the tirade from public sector workers!

    Typical response from some one who hasn't got a clue about what unions have done for this country. How old are you lad? How would you like to go back to working 18 hours a day? How about sending children down the mines? how about working for £1 an hour? It was the unions who did away with all that. It was the unions who put the bloody labour party where they are, and it's the bloody labour party who have crapped on the unions. Don't whine to me about having to take a pay cut, or "we're lucky to have a job" have some balls and be prepared to fight for your rights. You make me sick people like you, you don't know sh1 t about working in the public sector, What's up were you not bright enough to get a job in it? Tell you what crawl back under your stone and come out when the unions and public sector have sorted it all out you whimp

    Good one :D 8)

    Might I add that the reason we don't have regualr rail crashes involving hundreds of people any more is becasue of the unions. I saw a very good internal film put together by my signals department here and basically every advance in railway safety in the past 120 years is thanks to the unions.

    Once public sector workers are defeated then they'll be no more public sector.

    "good" I hear the nitwits shouting - but think about the reality of that for a minute - if you think the corporate sector is corrupt now - well you ain't seen nothing yet.

    Everything will be a commodity to be bought and sold. Politicans and regulators will have no power to curb the excesses - they don't have a lot now. One recession and you lose everything - hospitals go bust/ railways go bust/ nuclear power stations go bust - doesn't bear thinking about really does it?

    There are examples where unions have done more harm than good though, the UK car industry being one. All the strikes in 70's effectively sealed the fate of companies like Rover as standing around in a field moaning whilst your foreign competitors are working damn hard to produce a much better product (notably the ones from Germany and Japan) was hardly the smartest move. Its all very well giving it the big balls out speech about standing up for rights etc but manufacturing is very easily transferable across the globe now and if you dont want to do the job or set your price too high someone will undercut you.
  • skinsonskinson Posts: 362
    Hmm! fair point but the argument is about public sector workers in this case!! In general we would be in a far worse state if it was not for the unions...
    Dave
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    Yes in general workers would be in a far worse state if not for the unions. BUT this still doesn't mean the unions are beyond reproach. "verylonglegs" gives a good example, the British car industry. Ultimately whilst BMW, Mercedes and VW were able to keep going whilst being based in Germany, with a lot of there manufacturing in Germany, UK car companies went bust or were bought out.

    In many ways, it's a crying shame, this country produces some of the worlds' top Auto Engineers, (just look at the number of F1 teams based here) yet there are no true British car manufacturers left!

    Unions need to think carefully about advocating strike action, especially when unemployment is so high and so many people feel that they should just be thankful to have a job.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    Jez mon wrote:
    Unions need to think carefully about advocating strike action, especially when unemployment is so high and so many people feel that they should just be thankful to have a job.

    Which is why I left the RMT this week and joined TSSA who have agreed a pay deal with TfL - I supported a militant approach during the so-called good times but now the economy is f*cked I'm advocating a more moderate apporach - mind you - doesn't mean I'm not angry about those I see clearly stll raking in the money - MY MONEY - YOUR MONEY - just up the road in the city - if I could opt out of paying taxes at any time it would be now!! :evil:
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