Titanium...pros and cons please

Mothyman

thanks for the interesting and helpfull replies fellas....I've made notes for sometime in the future...will definitely be test-riding Ti when i can afford.

mrushton

Escargot wrote:

"redddraggon wrote:

Why does my Nero Corsa frame weight more than my Ti one, but there's no discernable difference in stiffness?

I think a lot of carbon bikes appear to have much larger sections than Ti bikes too and I'm not 100% why this is altough it may well be down to durability and safety factors i.e. designers ensuring that their carbon frames don't snap at the first knock.

[/quote]

Isn't there a design law that says if you double the width of a tube you quadruple the strength? Hence the reason Cannondale had such big downtubes.

Escargot

mrushton wrote:

Isn't there a design law that says if you double the width of a tube you quadruple the strength? Hence the reason Cannondale had such big downtubes.

Yup you're pretty much spot on but I was referring to carbon frames having larger tubes when it's titanium/stainless steel that need to be larger.

It's a mystery to me why this is often the case as carbon tubing does not really need to be any stiffer than it already is. Maybe it's down to aesthetics or perceived robustness :?

eh

I'm not fully sure how they lay up carbon, but they won't be restricted by tubing drawn into certain diameters by the tubing supplier as is the case with traditional metals.

The stiffer you can get the BB area then all the better for power transfer, this is one area where titanium frames can be poor and if not carfully constructed you can get dreadful flexy Ti frames, Raleigh Dynatechs being a good (bad) example.

Despite what people think Ti frames can fail, normally because the weld area is hard to control during the joining process.

Pat Murray

DaSy wrote:

The main advantages of Ti as a material for a bike are it's corrosion resistance, ability to be repaired, and ease of which scratches and marks can be buffed out. After that it's down to design and build rather than just the material.

Do others not find it amusing that the corrosion resistance of Ti over carbon is put forward as the reason Ti is a good choice for a winter frame, as someone who has forked out a lot of dosh for a carbon sea kayak I have now worries about using it in the salty sea!

DaSy

Pat Murray wrote:

DaSy wrote:

The main advantages of Ti as a material for a bike are it's corrosion resistance, ability to be repaired, and ease of which scratches and marks can be buffed out. After that it's down to design and build rather than just the material.

Do others not find it amusing that the corrosion resistance of Ti over carbon is put forward as the reason Ti is a good choice for a winter frame, as someone who has forked out a lot of dosh for a carbon sea kayak I have now worries about using it in the salty sea!

I too would find that amusing if it was in any way what I said. Still, out of context miss-quoting is always more fun...

If you actually read the post you will see I make no reference or comparison to carbon or any other material. My post was about how design has more influence than material alone on bike characteristics. I stand by the fact that one of Ti's main benefits in a bike context is it's corrosion resistance, that doesn't mean I believe all other materials will corrode because Ti doesn't....shheeez!

Pat Murray

DaSy wrote:

Pat Murray wrote:

DaSy wrote:

The main advantages of Ti as a material for a bike are it's corrosion resistance, ability to be repaired, and ease of which scratches and marks can be buffed out. After that it's down to design and build rather than just the material.

Do others not find it amusing that the corrosion resistance of Ti over carbon is put forward as the reason Ti is a good choice for a winter frame, as someone who has forked out a lot of dosh for a carbon sea kayak I have now worries about using it in the salty sea!

I too would find that amusing if it was in any way what I said. Still, out of context miss-quoting is always more fun...

A carbon framed bike is the same as a ti bike in the winter, it is the components that corode not the frame - that was my point. Your point was that Ti for a bike is better than carbon for corrosion resistance why?

DaSy

Pat Murray wrote:

A carbon framed bike is the same as a ti bike in the winter, it is the components that corode not the frame - that was my point. Your point was that Ti for a bike is better than carbon for corrosion resistance why?

Where do you get that point you refer to from?

Once again, I made, and still make no reference to carbon at all.

I assume you only read the first two sentences of any post, so this is probably lost too...

Pat Murray

DaSy wrote:

Pat Murray wrote:

A carbon framed bike is the same as a ti bike in the winter, it is the components that corode not the frame - that was my point. Your point was that Ti for a bike is better than carbon for corrosion resistance why?

Where do you get that point you refer to from?

Once again, I made, and still make no reference to carbon at all.

I assume you only read the first two sentences of any post, so this is probably lost too...

What? From your earlier post "The main advantages of Ti as a material for a bike are it's corrosion resistance", perhaps you should read what you write - what not you think you've said.

DaSy

Pat Murray wrote:

DaSy wrote:

Pat Murray wrote:

A carbon framed bike is the same as a ti bike in the winter, it is the components that corode not the frame - that was my point. Your point was that Ti for a bike is better than carbon for corrosion resistance why?

Where do you get that point you refer to from?

Once again, I made, and still make no reference to carbon at all.

I assume you only read the first two sentences of any post, so this is probably lost too...

What? From your earlier post "The main advantages of Ti as a material for a bike are it's corrosion resistance", perhaps you should read what you write - what not you think you've said.

Christ on a bike!

Exactly, at last you appear to have read my post, if not understood it. My entire post was about the fact that Ti is not a magic material that makes a great bike no matter what. It has many beneficial qualities as a material for making bikes, one of which is it's corrosion resistance. The fact that at no point did I compare that to carbon, seems to keep passing you by.

Ti generally builds into a bike with fairly similar properties to steel, but has an obvious advantage over steel in that it doesn't need to be finished to be corrosion resistant, amongst many others attributes.

I listed the advantages that Ti has for making it into a bike; I at no point said these were exclusive to Ti, or that it possesed them to a greater degree than any other material.

It was purely there to say Ti is good for making a bike because of certain properties, but still requires a skilled builder to create a bike with the magic that many seem to beleive will be there purely because of it's being made of Ti.

But thanks for taking the time to point out to me that carbon fibre doesn't rust, I was clearly in need of your wisdom.

queenylove

I think Lt Comander Data was made of titanium but i'm not sure what sort of bike he's got

kafkathedog

DaSy wrote:

Christ on a bike!.

Surely Christ's bike would be made of 'Halleluminium'

I'll get my coat

redddraggon

Escargot wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

I do functional ceramics now really But I did all the composites and metallurgy stuff as an undergrad.

Interesting. I guess I know where to come when I need a new one of these

That's more Engineering Ceramics.

Functional Ceramics is more:

Anonymous

redddraggon wrote:

Escargot wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

I do functional ceramics now really But I did all the composites and metallurgy stuff as an undergrad.

Interesting. I guess I know where to come when I need a new one of these

That's more Engineering Ceramics.

Functional Ceramics is more:

Did you smile when doing that last post Reddragon ?