Tour of California

iainf72

Now, I realise it's a nice enough race and everything, but does it really warrant all the attention it's getting?

With it's new position in the calender, isn't it basically the same as Volta a Catalunya now?

I realise we probably get over saturation reading the english language press but it seems ot be a lot of noise for a week long race.

Anonymous

That's on at the same time as the Giro...

iainf72

NapoleonD wrote:

That's on at the same time as the Giro...

They both are...

Anonymous

Indeed.

dennisn

iainf72 wrote:

Now, I realise it's a nice enough race and everything, but does it really warrant all the attention it's getting?

With it's new position in the calender, isn't it basically the same as Volta a Catalunya now?

I realise we probably get over saturation reading the english language press but it seems ot be a lot of noise for a week long race.

Just because it's ONLY a week long??? This makes it not worthy??? Thinking like that would make Milan-San Remo a funky training ride. Any good press that cycling gets is,
well, a good thing. Wouldn't you say??? C'mon, it's ONLY, and I do mean ONLY, a bike race. Nothing more, nothing less. Stop trying to make more or less of it than it is. Just watch and enjoy, and if you can't do that, find something else to do. :roll: :roll:

iainf72

No Dennis. It's a new race with no much history. I was saying is it worthy of all the attention it's getting. Will we get a big launch in the press for the other week long race held in May? No, I don't think so.

dennisn

iainf72 wrote:

No Dennis. It's a new race with no much history. I was saying is it worthy of all the attention it's getting. Will we get a big launch in the press for the other week long race held in May? No, I don't think so.

I really don't understand your point. Only races with a long history are worthy and / or
important? If the race race has been around forever, it is therefore GOOD. There are no races, with long histories, that are BAD??? It's a bike race and it gets a lot of attention. Where's the problem?

afx237vi

dennisn wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Now, I realise it's a nice enough race and everything, but does it really warrant all the attention it's getting?

With it's new position in the calender, isn't it basically the same as Volta a Catalunya now?

I realise we probably get over saturation reading the english language press but it seems ot be a lot of noise for a week long race.

Just because it's ONLY a week long??? This makes it not worthy??? Thinking like that would make Milan-San Remo a funky training ride. Any good press that cycling gets is,
well, a good thing. Wouldn't you say??? C'mon, it's ONLY, and I do mean ONLY, a bike race. Nothing more, nothing less. Stop trying to make more or less of it than it is. Just watch and enjoy, and if you can't do that, find something else to do. :roll: :roll:

The point being made is that the Tour of California gets disproportionately more press compared to all the other week-long races... of which there are a lot.

It's a decent race, but is the route any more interesting that the Volta a Catalunya or the Tour Méd? Not really. Are the riders any better than those in the Tour of Poland or the Tour of the Basque Country? Again, not really.

It's not really the Tour of California's fault, though. It's just the way the Anglophone cycling press works.

andyp

Dennis, please forgive our cynicism but we've seen lots of US races in our time. Most of them are now defunct;

Tour de Trump/Tour du Pont
Tour of Georgia
Tour of Texas
Cascade/Red Zinger/Coors Classic

The Tour of California seems to have solid financial backing but once the Lance bubble bursts will it survive? I hope so, but we've seen too many races fold to get too excited about it.

all show no go

I would imagine Captain Livestrong will ride the ToC, hence the already slavish media attention being bestowed upon what is a fairly decent race. It's a young race that just knows how to sell itself I guess. The newer european races on the calendar such as Eroica could learn a thing or two from the marketing guys stateside.

dennisn

andyp wrote:

Dennis, please forgive our cynicism but we've seen lots of US races in our time. Most of them are now defunct;

Tour de Trump/Tour du Pont
Tour of Georgia
Tour of Texas
Cascade/Red Zinger/Coors Classic

The Tour of California seems to have solid financial backing but once the Lance bubble bursts will it survive? I hope so, but we've seen too many races fold to get too excited about it.

What's the big deal if there are defunct races???? I would certainly rather see defunct
races than never to have had them at all. Plenty of people out there giving it the old college try. If you're not one of them then how can you complain about it? Are we supposed to live in a world where everything remains the same? If you want all these great races to exist you're going to have to get out there and stand at the corners to be a traffic monitor at the local races and try to make them better. It all adds up in the end. Everyone who can, needs to get out there, IF you want all these races(big and small).
You can't have too many people helping out.
Sorry, I'm ranting on. :oops: :oops:

intothe12

Regardless of the hype of the ToC and the undoubted amount of bullsh*t twitter vomit that will come from the race, it is difficult to beat the excitement of the Giro over the last few years, constant attacking, interesting if somewhat hairy route (especially the last 200m) and the general flair of the country. By comparison, the ToC will no doubt be populated by an abundance of grown men dressed as cowboys, animals, syringes (although that was funny) running up the side of the mountain which certainly constrained some great opportunities to attack. In summary it’s a chance for Capt Pharmstrong to let Levi off the leash for a win with the promise of payback in July.

FJS

First, it really depends where you look. The Tour of Catalunya gets lots of attention in Spain, the Tirreno-Adriatico in Italy, and the Tour of Britain in the UK. The Tour of California gets more coverage in the English speaking world than elsewhere. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I feel there are still one week races that get more attention, like Paris-Nice or the Dauphine-Libere. And rightly so. But I do think the Tour of California merits a good deal of attention anywhere, simply because it attracts a decent field of riders, some very decent riders take it seriously, and has the potential to become a major race on the calendar, unlike many of the other events in the US (like that silly race across america project) that do not have that much appeal in Europe.

About it being new, doesn't the Eroica get more attention than its history deserves, more than historical races like Giro dell'Emilia, E3-Prijs Harelbeke, etc? Depends where you watch your cycling, and how much of a traditionalist you are....

moray_gub

Its a strange day when cycling fans complain about a race getting too much publicity :roll:

micron

Armstrong to the ToC - hurrah, this can only mean no LanceAssCam in this year's Giro.

Feel sorry for all the genuine US fans who will now miss the Giro, though.

The hoopla over the ToC is just another step in the UCI 'globalisation/land grab' programme. Which is great but seems to be entirely dependent on exploiting the US Armstrong fan base. All well and good but the sport needs to grow a sustainable fan base and we all know how many 3WFs disappeared completely as soon as Armstrong retired.

blazing_saddles

iainf72 wrote:

Now, I realise it's a nice enough race and everything, but does it really warrant all the attention it's getting?

With it's new position in the calender, isn't it basically the same as Volta a Catalunya now?

Had this discussion elsewhere, a while back.
Seems that Catalunya is being shunted, once more, to accommodate California entering the PT.
New date is in March, allegedly.

So come 2011, there won't be a clash, but the guys who make Cali popular, will all be at the end of their shelf life.

Then, it will gradually become another Georgia. At lot of US fans, over on the CN forums are not happy, either with the timing, or the same 'ol parcours.
Much rests upon it's MTF.

dennisn

Blazing Saddles wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Now, I realise it's a nice enough race and everything, but does it really warrant all the attention it's getting?

With it's new position in the calender, isn't it basically the same as Volta a Catalunya now?

At lot of US fans, over on the CN forums are not happy, either with the timing, or the same 'ol parcours.
.

I would say that there aren't a lot of happy people on any of these forums. B*tching all the time about this or that race or person or place or time or, or, or. B*tch, b*tch, b*tch. For gods sakes get your *ss out there and help out with the local, regional, and even national races, if you can. Instead of complaining do something useful for cycling.
Contribute what you can and forget about being negative all your life.
Wow, that turned into quite a rant. Sorry, if I offended anyone. No, I take that back, I'm
not sorry. Get out there and do more for cycling than complaining.

simon_e

dennisn wrote:

I would say that there aren't a lot of happy people on any of these forums.

Speak for yourself! Don't confuse a fan's frustration with the politics of sport with an unhappy personal life. The more deeply one follows a sport the more significant seemingly minor things become.

Are you passionate about anything Dennis? Why do you appear so angry with us? Perhaps you should get out more and stop being so negative about all the so-called negativity here - the real world is but a mouse click away

And why does having a strong interest in pro cycling mean people should be volunteering at a local level or cycling more themselves? (though both are good) It's 8:30 pm, pitch dark on a damp Friday evening and I've already ridden to work and back every day this week. I'm clean, had my dinner and put the kids to bed. I am here prevaricating before the washing-up and putting some clothes on for a 40° wash. I don't want to listen to whatever cr@p my wife is watching on TV so I'm here.

But the racing. I can't call myself any kind of expert. ToCal? A pro bike race. In America. Yeah, I'll check CN etc while it's on. Do I need to know any more? Not really, but I'll follow the threads here too, they give a different perspective and I might even learn something.

dennisn

Simon E wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I would say that there aren't a lot of happy people on any of these forums.

Speak for yourself! Don't confuse a fan's frustration with the politics of sport with an unhappy personal life. The more deeply one follows a sport the more significant seemingly minor things become.

Are you passionate about anything Dennis? Why do you appear so angry with us? Perhaps you should get out more and stop being so negative about all the so-called negativity here - the real world is but a mouse click away

And why does having a strong interest in pro cycling mean people should be volunteering at a local level or cycling more themselves? (though both are good) It's 8:30 pm, pitch dark on a damp Friday evening and I've already ridden to work and back every day this week. I'm clean, had my dinner and put the kids to bed. I am here prevaricating before the washing-up and putting some clothes on for a 40° wash. I don't want to listen to whatever cr@p my wife is watching on TV so I'm here.

But the racing. I can't call myself any kind of expert. ToCal? A pro bike race. In America. Yeah, I'll check CN etc while it's on. Do I need to know any more? Not really, but I'll follow the threads here too, they give a different perspective and I might even learn something.

I think my point was that if you're going to complain about the state of cycling, yet you're
doing nothing to improve it(i.e. helping at events), except moaning and groaning on some
forum, then shut up. It's like complaining about politicians and yet not voting. You can do it, but it makes no sense at all. It all boils down to the fact that I believe that the ones who complain the most do the least. I've seen it at almost all levels of riding and racing. The participants shell out a few dollars to race or ride(a tour), then come to the organizers/
officials with all manner of petty gripes from "they ran out of apples at food stop #2"
to "the lap transponders that we put on our legs are a pain in the ass, can't the officials keep better track of things". And these are exactly the people whom you never see helping out with anything. Opps, ranting again.

simon_e

dennisn wrote:

I think my point was that if you're going to complain about the state of cycling, yet you're doing nothing to improve it(i.e. helping at events), except moaning and groaning on some forum, then shut up.

Why should they? You choose to read these very threads that so annoy you, Dennis. Why? You can ignore them, no-one will mind.

dennisn wrote:

It's like complaining about politicians and yet not voting. You can do it, but it makes no sense at all.

Not necessarily IMHO. Withholding one's vote can be a political act. Everyone in politics knows that the proportion of voters that cast their vote is an important statistic, otherwise no-one would ever mention the turnout at elections. Being too apathetic to vote then moaning about the result is a bit silly, but I don't have a problem with it. Lots of things are silly, pointless or a waste of time, but whose time is being wasted?

I had better do those dishes

afx237vi

We b*tch about pro cycling, Dennis bitches about us. It's the natural order of things.

andyp

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Had this discussion elsewhere, a while back.
Seems that Catalunya is being shunted, once more, to accommodate California entering the PT.
New date is in March, allegedly.

Which was the traditional date for the now defunct Catalan Week stage race. In a way it makes sense to merge the two, especially as Catalan Week folded due to a lack of sponsors a couple of years back.

It will mean no real mountains as it'll be too cold to head into the Pyrenees in any meaningful way in March.

The_Special_One

And on a lighter note, i shall be in the la la land area when the ToC is on, so hopefully try and watch a stage or 2, maybe head up to Big Bear or catch the ITT.

frenchfighter

micron wrote:

Armstrong to the ToC - hurrah, this can only mean no LanceAssCam in this year's Giro.

Feel sorry for all the genuine US fans who will now miss the Giro, though.

The hoopla over the ToC is just another step in the UCI 'globalisation/land grab' programme. Which is great but seems to be entirely dependent on exploiting the US Armstrong fan base. All well and good but the sport needs to grow a sustainable fan base and we all know how many 3WFs disappeared completely as soon as Armstrong retired.

Agreed.

frenchfighter

First time reading this thread as the TofCal provides no interest at all. However I just read somewhere else that it is on at the same time as the Giro and just wanted to say that I think this is a pretty stupid idea. The Grio is like a Lion and the TofCal a cat. Why they are even trying this is odd - I would have thought there would be more top names riding the TofCal had it not changed month and there will likely be many fewer viewers...

DaveyL

Viewing won't be a problem due to the time difference. It'll be interesting to see who rides where though. I suppose Bertrand could turn up, since he's not doing the Giro.