Sharp practice

.blitz

It's happened before but now it's starting to p*ss me off. I place an order with an online retailer (one of the bike-shop-with-a-website-outfits) and within seconds, my card account is debited. Days later, I get a primary-school e-mail telling me that the item 'is no longer available' and would I like to 'choose an alternative'?

Would I f**k - I want my money back! And so they kindly agree to give me a refund for the stuff I never got and they never had.

Where do I stand with this practice? I want to nail the robbing b*stards to the wall.

XxxBFGxxX

bit crap realy mate surley its against the law for them to do that.

grumsta

Bait and switch - very annoying. Not sure if it's illegal or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_and_switch[/url]

papasmurf.

isn't this one of the things OFT raised last week for investigation and regulation for online sales.,

bomberesque

I'm reasonably sure that they can't charge your card until they have assigned stock to the order.

Hey, look. Email them and state that you won't be shopping with them again due to this practice. Illegal or not it is clearly disingenuous.

.blitz

bomberesque wrote:

I'm reasonably sure that they can't charge your card until they have assigned stock to the order.

That was my understanding, but some places use a third-party for payments and they debit your account before passing the order on to the retailer :evil:

bomberesque wrote:

Hey, look. Email them and state that you won't be shopping with them again due to this practice.

I'd like to think I gave them that impression over the phone =]

bomberesque wrote:

Illegal or not it is clearly disingenuous.

There must be a law against this :?

Slamdunkin

I think you are covered under the distance selling regulations.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resour ... gulations/

They have no right withholding your money, tell them if the money is repaid you will be reporting them to trading standards.

boogercj

bomberesque wrote:

I'm reasonably sure that they can't charge your card until they have assigned stock to the order.

Hmmmm, I ordered a set of forks from a well known online retailer (begins with M, builds great wheels) and the money came straight off my card. When I called them to ask why they hadnt processed the order yet, they said it was because they had oversold the item.

I got a refund straight away but I think it's a bit cheeky to take the funds without assigning stock to the order.

.blitz

boogercj wrote:

Hmmmm, I ordered a set of forks from a well known online retailer (begins with M, builds great wheels) and the money came straight off my card. When I called them to ask why they hadnt processed the order yet, they said it was because they had oversold the item.

I got a refund straight away but I think it's a bit cheeky to take the funds without assigning stock to the order.

Exactly.

Slamdunkin

See section 19
of the distance selling regs

Performance
19. - (1) Unless the parties agree otherwise, the supplier shall perform the contract within a maximum of 30 days beginning with the day after the day the consumer sent his order to the supplier.

(2) Subject to paragraphs (7) and ( 8 ), where the supplier is unable to perform the contract because the goods or services ordered are not available, within the period for performance referred to in paragraph (1) or such other period as the parties agree ("the period for performance"), he shall -



(a) inform the consumer; and

(b) reimburse any sum paid by or on behalf of the consumer under or in relation to the contract to the person by whom it was made.



http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm

.blitz

Thanks fella.

Slamdunkin wrote:

Unless the parties agree otherwise, the supplier shall perform the contract within a maximum of 30 days beginning with the day after the day the consumer sent his order to the supplier.

Any idea what 'perform' means in this context?

Slamdunkin wrote:

Subject to paragraphs (7) and ( 8 ), where the supplier is unable to perform the contract because the goods or services ordered are not available, within the period for performance referred to in paragraph (1) or such other period as the parties agree ("the period for performance"), he shall -
(a) inform the consumer; and
(b) reimburse any sum paid by or on behalf of the consumer under or in relation to the contract to the person by whom it was made.

So it's OK for a supplier to take the money, wait 30 days and then tell you they can't deliver? Surely shome mishtake?

scotto

Slamdunkin wrote:

I think you are covered under the distance selling regulations.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resour ... gulations/

They have no right withholding your money, tell them if the money is repaid you will be reporting them to trading standards.

Goods bought over the internet are covered by the sale of goods act and not the distance selling act, I know that to be true as I run an online store and confirmed this with trading standards when there was a problem.

It is legal to take money straight away and it actually has benefits for the customer in that it makes the processing time much quicker and therefore delivery is in theory much quicker.

Slamdunkin

In this instance perform means supply you the goods you ordered.

Slamdunkin

Goods bought over the internet are covered by the sale of goods act and not the distance selling act,

That is not true consumers are covered by both....if you run an on-line store you should now this and be compliant.

Slamdunkin

scotto wrote:

Slamdunkin wrote:

I think you are covered under the distance selling regulations.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resour ... gulations/

They have no right withholding your money, tell them if the money is repaid you will be reporting them to trading standards.

scotto wrote

Goods bought over the internet are covered by the sale of goods act and not the distance selling act, I know that to be true as I run an online store and confirmed this with trading standards when there was a problem.

It is legal to take money straight away and it actually has benefits for the customer in that it makes the processing time much quicker and therefore delivery is in theory much quicker.

From the govenment websiet

Distance Selling Regulations
Distance selling means selling and buying by phone, mail order, via the Internet or digital TV. Such transactions are covered generally by normal buying and selling legislation, but they are also covered by special Distance Selling Regulations.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consume ... index.html

.blitz

scotto wrote:

It is legal to take money straight away and it actually has benefits for the customer in that it makes the processing time much quicker and therefore delivery is in theory much quicker.

Outrageous.

yoohoo999

scotto wrote:

Goods bought over the internet are covered by the sale of goods act and not the distance selling act, I know that to be true as I run an online store and confirmed this with trading standards when there was a problem.

eh? trading standards told you that? :shock:

the DSR's are additional protection for consumers purchasing goods where there is no face-to-face contact. why wouldn't the DSR's apply to internet transactions?

there is no exclusion in the Regs themselves and the consumer will have their normal statutory rights under the SOG Act as well.


What type of online store do you operate? There are some (limited) exclusions to the DSR's which you may fall under (ie financial services or business to business transactions)

Tank-slapper

Name and shame blitz...

scotto

yes mine is business to business so Iyes that's why, though should you have to take a company to court chances are the proscecution will refer to the sale of goods act (just had that confirmed from friend in trading standards btw) as this is a better defined and recognised act.

I still don't see the problem though unless as above the company appears to have never stocked the items in the first place, which is clearly wrong.

yoohoo999

^ that would explain it then. As noted above, the DSRs don't apply to business to business transactions.

The Sale of Goods Act was also desgined to protect consumers, but it does also apply in some circumstances to business to business transactions, so trading standards aren't as daft as we first thought .

Wooliferkins

It depends on the payment system you use. Some systems affordable to the start up retailer do not give you the opportunity of deferring payments. Your size and history limits your choice of payment systems until you get a track record the more flexible systems are just not available. As for stock, you cant keep everything and if you are not a web developer paying for an IT system that checks suppliers stocks daily is monstrously expensive. We all start small, even squiggle and it takes time and helpful customers/suppliers to grow.

I want an Orange

The same thing happened to me as well this week. A thought I had bought a Marin mount vision only to get an email to contact them.

I had dealings before with the dealer online when they sent an ex display model with parts missing instead of a new bike so I stated in the comments that I wanted new and not ex display and low and behold the last one had been sold.

I run an online shop and the stock is automatically updated when someone buys an item. The trouble with most online retailers is that they share stock with the retail outlets and and this is where the heart of the problem is when stock is low. The retail store sells or holds the stock and the website isn't updated automatically.