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Tubeless ???

MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408
edited October 2009 in Road beginners
Hi All,
So........ Tubeless or tubeless ready tyres are all over the place and commonly used in mountain biking, but I don't seem to see or hear anything about them for road bikes. I know Stans do a tubeless kit with Hutchinson tyres and the sealant, but that appears to be it.

I love them on my MTB, so was was considering them for the road bike. Is there any reason that they're not so prevalant on the road ? The Stans sealant can certainly handle the increased pressure of a road tyre.

Cheers........ Matt
Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved

Posts

  • Harry182Harry182 Posts: 1,168
    Am also thinking that road tubeless are the way forward. Any of you guys/gals have practical experience with these?
  • BilesBiles Posts: 40
    they are too impractical when you get a puncture out on a ride and too much of a fuss to put on. thats why they are only really used in racing where a spare wheel is available

    the inpracticality out-weighs the benefits IMO
  • Steve_b77Steve_b77 Posts: 1,680
    Biles wrote:
    they are too impractical when you get a puncture out on a ride and too much of a fuss to put on. thats why they are only really used in racing where a spare wheel is available

    the inpracticality out-weighs the benefits IMO

    Surely the whole concept of tubeless is that if you do get a puncture they seal themselves or is this more of an issue @ the higher pressures used in road tyres.

    Suppose one of the great advantages in MTB is you don't pinch flat using tubeless, can't really see that happening in road biking - correct me if I'm wrong
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Yeah, the whole point of tubeless with the sealant is to prevent punctures. Have a look at this, it's the Stans set up showing installation and sealing abilities. I have to say, it looks no more difficult or time consuming to fit than my mtb tyres, which are a piece of p*ss........
    http://www.notubes.com/movie_road.php
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • Vino2007Vino2007 Posts: 340
    Differance between Tubular and Tubeless remember.
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Tubeless tyres can be a nightmare to remove and refit on the roadside - OK if you have a service car, but when you've snapped your tyre levers trying to get them off, not much use! The supposed advantage is that you can run lower pressures for better comfort and grip with less risk of punctures - great for racing on wet, Flemish roads, but not for everyday use. Thinking about getting some cross tyres, but less sure for general use - I use tubs for racing anyway.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    I can only really see the advantage of tubeless with MTBing where you need to run very low pressures.

    Clinchers for normal riding, tubulars for racing.
  • ride_wheneverride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    Less rolling resistance and puncture proof-ness would be nice on a roadie. I wouldn't want to try and ghetto/proper conversion for road bike pressures though. UST rims and tubeless ready tyres would be awesome on a roadie though.
  • Stans solution for road bikes is almost ghetto, a rim tape, a stans valve, the specified Hutchinson tyre and the sealant.

    I'd like to try it, but if it's anything like when I converted my Hope hoops to Stans I'll not bother.
  • ride_wheneverride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    I only had a bit of trouble ghetto-ing one of my mtb wheels because i'd rushed it.

    However blowing a mtb tyre off at 60psi was bad, wonder what a road one at 120 psi would be like. About 1/3 volume and double the pressure, should be fine. Hmmm, might do my pompino with the cx tyres next. What inner tube size for 700c wheels?
  • Harry182Harry182 Posts: 1,168
    Lots of speculation noted above but has anyone actually used them?
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    I have every confidence in my Stans set up on my mtb. I've been running tubeless on it for about 2 1/2 years now, with one puncture, but that was a huge slice (about 1 1/2") long from a piece of flint, I wouldn't expect the sealant to seal that ! When I changed my tyres to my new Fulcrum wheels, I pulled 22 thorns and a couple of pieces of glass out of the front tyre which I hadn't noticed.... can't be bad.

    The Stans rim tape isn't like normal rim tape, it's a VERY tough fibre reinforced Nylon tape, there's no way that 120psi would blow through it.

    I've also had success with standard mtb tyres (not UST or tubeless ready) so I think I'll try it with my current road bike tyres. Personally, I think it'll be fine.

    I shall try it, get a few miles under the wheels and report back :D
    wish me luck !!!

    Matt
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,601
    I'm not overly impressed with road tire sealants. I use Tufo Tubular Clinchers and they have there own sealant which works IF it's a really small puncture. It tends to plug the valve over time(nothing you can't work through with a pump, but......). I think these road sealants will work at lower pressures than the normal 100PSI and up, as is shown with MTB tires. Too much pressure for this stuff to work on larger holes in hi-pressure tires - tubeless or not. IMHO, in keeping with the "it's not a perfect world" theory, tubeless tires may just turn out to be another answer to a problem that doesn't exist. I'm just not sure what problem tubeless rims and tires fix.
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408

    And now I see....... I think !!
    That explains a lot, still going to try it though :D
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • nferrarnferrar Posts: 2,511
    You can see how well it supposedly seals in the installation video someone linked to above (skip to 6 minutes in).

    I'm a fan of tubeless on MTBs the only things putting me off doing it on the road bike are:
    1). Can't really do it ghetto so would mean new rims/wheels
    2). Only Hutchinson tyres seem to be available still
    3). Most road punctures I get involve slits, some would be too big for sealant to deal with (at least from my experience on the MTB).
  • Harry182Harry182 Posts: 1,168
    Here's an interesting tubless related link - Testrider.com's video review of a Campagnolo Shamal Ultra 2-Way Fit wheelset.

    Testrider.com says that the tubeless tyres' "astounding... rolling resistance reduction" make the 24mm deep alu clincher rims "... feel like a set of deep dish carbon wheels with ceramic bearings." :shock:

    http://testrider.com/fly.aspx?layout=player&video=82
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    nferrar wrote:
    You can see how well it supposedly seals in the installation video someone linked to above (skip to 6 minutes in).

    I'm a fan of tubeless on MTBs the only things putting me off doing it on the road bike are:
    1). Can't really do it ghetto so would mean new rims/wheels
    2). Only Hutchinson tyres seem to be available still
    3). Most road punctures I get involve slits, some would be too big for sealant to deal with (at least from my experience on the MTB).

    Good point on number three ! I guess most mtb punctures are from thorns, snake bites etc, giving small punctures. I guess that no the road, you encounter more glass, flint etc, which is going to put a small slice in your tyre.

    As for doing a ghetto conversion on road tyres, sealing the spoke holes isn't an issue, the 'Stan's' yellow rim tape is really good stuff, so you wouldn't need new rims/wheels.

    cheers........ M

    ps. excuse my spelling / grammar / etc......... I had a bit of red wine last night :D
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • Harry182Harry182 Posts: 1,168
    @ nferrar -- You wouldn't need new rims if you used the Stan's conversion kit. That's what MattC59 and Russel's video links are showing.

    @ MattC59 -- Very much looking forward to your review. Would like to hear your thoughts on the ease/difficulty of installation and how the ride quality compares to your normal tryes (and what your normal tyres are.)
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Harry182 wrote:
    Here's an interesting tubless related link - Testrider.com's video review of a Campagnolo Shamal Ultra 2-Way Fit wheelset.

    Testrider.com says that the tubeless tyres' "astounding... rolling resistance reduction" make the 24mm deep alu clincher rims "... feel like a set of deep dish carbon wheels with ceramic bearings." :shock:

    http://testrider.com/fly.aspx?layout=player&video=82

    Interesting !!!
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Harry182 wrote:
    @ MattC59 -- Very much looking forward to your review. Would like to hear your thoughts on the ease/difficulty of installation and how the ride quality compares to your normal tryes (and what your normal tyres are.)

    I shall keep you posted !! :D
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • balthazarbalthazar Posts: 1,565
    Harry182 wrote:
    Testrider.com says that the tubeless tyres' "astounding... rolling resistance reduction" make the 24mm deep alu clincher rims "... feel like a set of deep dish carbon wheels with ceramic bearings." :shock:

    http://testrider.com/fly.aspx?layout=player&video=82
    Is it just me who finds this sort of fluff unbearable? The vapid theorising, the thoughtless trotting out of manufacturer claims and PR, and the usual braindead repetition of the sturdier myths about bikes?

    Maybe. But couldn't they at least have put a little effort into measuring the difference in RR?
  • mikey_748mikey_748 Posts: 108
    Balthazar your not alone with this stuff.....the bullsh1t spouted by the bike makers, mag reviewers, and some on this forum around bike / bike bit performance is ridiculous

    Can't be that hard to come up with a half reliable scientific measure of stuff like rolling resistance, frame flex, road buzz, "lateral stiffness v vertical compliance" etc etc.

    Having said that, think I need a set of tubeless wheels that "spin up fantastically quickly", offer "feather bed comfort" and "literally shoot up mountains" - haven't really noticed any difference with the last £500 of "upgrades" so think these may be the ones :wink:
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