Pedals (stiff MTB shoes on road bike).....

rdt

I've been using Crank Brothers Quattro pedals with some carbon-soled road shoes for some time, liking the double-sided operation (easier to clip into first-time than SPD-SL) and the ability to hobble about OK in the cleats without breaking my neck.

Now Crank Brothers, in their wisdom, have stopped making them, and seems even getting the cleats is going to be a problem. Coupled with my road shoes being worn out (through hobbling about in them) and ill-fitting in the first place, means I'm considering other options....

With ultra-stiff (carbon-soled) MTB shoes now available, I'm wondering if there's much mileage in the option of using a shoe like that with a recessed cleat system (and corresponding road pedals)? Would that mean SPDs, or are there other recessed cleat systems that might fit the bill?

From what I remember, SPDs allow your foot to twist around a fair amount, so they might feel a bit "loose" I suppose. I also remember being able to feel the tiny contact point through the shoe, but that was with a crappy bendy soled shoe, not a solid carbon sole.

Any suggestions on the options here? Cheers.

maddog 2

I run a carbon-soled MTB shoe (Spesh carbon pro) on my roadie. Works a treat. No hotspots at all. I use spuds (powerplays, sub 300g).

You can get cleats with fixed float, if that floats your boat.... cleats with some float should only twist a small amount though - maybe the cleats/pedals you tried were worn and sloppy?

rdt

Thanks maddog.

I read an older post on here last week from someone else using the same setup as you, which prompted me to look at carbon-soled MTB shoes in an LBS, and was surprised to see they're almost indiscernible from road shoes...

If carbon-soled MTB shoes give you the best of both worlds (solid pedalling platform w/o hotspots, akin to a road shoe/pedal combo, but with the walkability of MTB shoes), then why aren't more people going for it, as it would seem immensely practical, without sacrificing performance?

Have you tried a road shoe/pedal combo such that you can comment on how your carbon-soled MTB with spuds feels in comparison, particularly if riding all day?

cheers.

soveda

rdt wrote:

I've been using Crank Brothers Quattro pedals with some carbon-soled road shoes for some time, liking the double-sided operation (easier to clip into first-time than SPD-SL) and the ability to hobble about OK in the cleats without breaking my neck.

Now Crank Brothers, in their wisdom, have stopped making them, and seems even getting the cleats is going to be a problem. Coupled with my road shoes being worn out (through hobbling about in them) and ill-fitting in the first place, means I'm considering other options....

With ultra-stiff (carbon-soled) MTB shoes now available, I'm wondering if there's much mileage in the option of using a shoe like that with a recessed cleat system (and corresponding road pedals)? Would that mean SPDs, or are there other recessed cleat systems that might fit the bit?

From what I remember, SPDs allow your foot to twist around a fair amount, so they might feel a bit "loose" I suppose. I also remember being able to feel the tiny contact point through the shoe, but that was with a crappy bendy soled shoe, not a solid carbon sole.

Any suggestions on the options here? Cheers.

If you like the feel of the crank bros pedals why not just use a stiff MTB shoe ond one of the platformed Crank Bros pedals (or your current ones if they aren't broken) should be fine.

ETA: the 3 hole "fixed" cleats are still listed on the crank bros website:

http://www.crankbrothers.com/fixed_cleat.php?itemId=

maddog 2

(possible) pros for roadies pedals over the 'mtb setup' are:

- more secure, in that they are less likely to accidentally disengage when sprinting to the next pub. Probably true, although you can obviously adjust the release tension on both types.

- wider platform. The cleat on a roadie pedal is wider so may twist less. Again, we're talking minor differences here. My spuds+carbon shoes don't twist but there you go.

- less weight. Definitely true. Lightest (double entry) spuds are about 300g upwards. Xpedos are lighter still but they're rubbish so I'll ignore them. Roadie pedals are maybe 200g upwards, depending on models, so you can save a bit of weight. Also, roadie shoes are a tad lighter, as they don't have any tread.

- more cornering clearance. Possibly true but again we're talking a few mm so I'd take that with a pinch of salt too.

- Less hotspots. With carbon soled mtb shoes you can't feel anything other than the sole of the shoe when you push down. Simple as that. I've done 150 mile rides and not had problem.

For me, the only one with any real benefit is the weight. All the others are marginal or simply not an issue at all.

I've tried roadie pedals (SPD-SL) and didn't prefer them, so I've gone back to spuds+carbon shoes. Each to his own but it's a lot closer than most people realise. And the benefits to mtb shoes are obvious. You don't look like a wally and you don't fall over.

rdt

soveda wrote:

If you like the feel of the crank bros pedals why not just use a stiff MTB shoe ond one of the platformed Crank Bros pedals (or your current ones if they aren't broken) should be fine.

ETA: the 3 hole "fixed" cleats are still listed on the crank bros website:

http://www.crankbrothers.com/fixed_cleat.php?itemId=

I've had a close look at the contact between the cleat surround (black plastic body) and the Quattro pedal: there's the merest of contact between the two, just in line with the pedal axle. With a stiff soled shoe, I can't imagine that tiny contact is adding much to the feeling of connection between shoe and pedal. So, one of the other Crank Brothers pedals may do the job (e.g. Candy or Smarties), and give me double-sided option still. I'll bear that in mind, but also the fact that longevity of CB's pedals is questionable IME.

I need some float, so that CB Quattro fixed cleat wouldn't be good for me.

maddog 2 wrote:

(possible) pros for roadies pedals over the 'mtb setup' are:

- less weight. Definitely true. Lightest (double entry) spuds are about 300g upwards. Xpedos are lighter still but they're rubbish so I'll ignore them. Roadie pedals are maybe 200g upwards, depending on models, so you can save a bit of weight. Also, roadie shoes are a tad lighter, as they don't have any tread.

- Less hotspots. With carbon soled mtb shoes you can't feel anything other than the sole of the shoe when you push down. Simple as that. I've done 150 mile rides and not had problem.

For me, the only one with any real benefit is the weight. All the others are marginal or simply not an issue at all.
.

Thanks for that. I'm fairly convinced that carbon-sole stiffness means MTB shoes are viable without much compromise.

The double sidedness of the Crank Brothers pedals has been a bonus, as it makes for flawless clip-in each time. I used to ride on start-stop roads, so this was a major boon and why I switched from SPD-SL. Now, I really just ride in the sticks, so that's not such an issue I guess.

For single-sided, there's stuff like the Shimano A520, but the Ritchey Pro Micro V4 pedal looks an option too:-
http://www.allterraincycles.co.uk/product/112069.html

around £50 and light at 200g, but as they're not hugely popular, maybe there could be a problem with them being around long term, a la Quattros?

Anyone tried Ritchey Pro Micro pedals?

ride_whenever

Go for it, try a set of the CB eggbeaters the top end 4ti are a claimed 167g which isn't too shabby. (Although £400 :shock: ) Four sided engagement, absolutely mint, just stamp and mash. Also look really small on the bike, which is rather cool.

For the record, 2pure (uk CB distributor) no longer have quattro cleats on their website.

maddog 2

You've just got to be careful with the really light stuff. I had some ti Xpedos like these



which were very light, looked good and worked fairly well but they ate their bushings in about a month, and you couldn't replace them, so they were a waste of money (and not cheap).

Maybe the Ritcheys are fine and last well, but I'd try and get some anecdotal evidence off the interweb before I splashed the cash I think.

rdt

OK, I tried on a bunch of carbon soled MTB shoes and found that the only ones that really fitted me were also the stiffest: Mavic Chasm. The Sidi (inc Dragon) and Shimano carbons flexed more than the Mavic. I've not yet bought, but am pleased that I found a shoe that fitted just right, as most are just too wide. I understand that Mavic's shoes are made by Adidas. I don't get half the same problems finding e.g. trainers, running shoes that fit as I do cycling shoes that fit...

Interesting to note that none of the carbon MTBs were as stiff as the carbon road shoes (totally solid - no flex), and many/most of the composite soled road shoes were stiffer than the carbon MTBs. I assume that they've left some flex in the MTBs to aid walking, but as mentioned, the Mavic Chasms are pretty damned stiff, so would hopefully do the job for me.

It must be said that the price of higher end cycling shoes is absolutely ridiculous, as it is for higher end cycling clothing in general, esp with Sterling in the toilet. Great.

The existing Crank Brothers Quattros I have can't be used with any MTB shoes without taking a knife to the sole, because of the large outboard bearing on the Quattros, which I'm not keen on doing to a new £150 shoes. So I'm looking at new pedals too. Even better.

The shortlist is a Crank Brothers Candy SL, Shimano A520 and maybe something else.
...

Maddog, what are the Powerplays you said you're using? The Force Pro? And are they single or double sided? Any other comments on them? Thanks.

Am I right in thinking that MTB pedals will have a longer spindle length? I know that's the case for the CB Candys compared to the Quattros. Is that an issue in practice?

Plus any other input appreciated. Cheers.

maddog 2

I use the Powerplay Force (luke)

like these

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=19410

they are 300g - which is lighter than XTR, double sided, last well and they come up on ebay from time to time for sometimes as low as £15, which is a real bargain.

Try a search on ebay for "powerplay" or "bikehut", as Halfords sell them

rdt

Update on my quest to move to a shoe/pedal combo which allowed a recessed cleat but without sacrificing stiffness...

I finally got around to making some purchases: Mavic Chasm carbon-soled (MTB) shoes and Crank Brothers Candy SL (MTB) pedals.

The shoe/pedal interface feels similar to my previous set up of roadie kit: 2005 Specialized Boa S-Works carbon-soled shoe and Crank Brothers Quattro pedals.

The Mavic carbon soles are not quite as beefy as my old Specializeds, and using my hands, I can get the sole to bend ever so fractionally. But I wasn't aware of this when riding. The Chasm's stiffness is such that you wouldn't want to walk around a whole lot in them, but the grippy tread means you can walk safely, no worries.

Because of this tread, the Chasms weigh more than the Specializeds, but not hugely. The Candy pedals weigh a bit less than the old Quattros, and are pretty light compared to most road pedal/cleats.

So the new combo seems to have little to no downside from my perspective (except for spending a load of dollar :roll: ). I keep the great double-sided easy entry (oo err) of Crank Brothers pedals, retain a very solid pedalling platform, but have now gained the ability to walk around without risking breaking my neck.

Plus, I'm driving/camping in France in the Summer, taking bikes down with us. We'll use the bikes for pottering around and sightseeing as much as doing more serious rides. Since the pedals work with any recessed-cleat cycling shoes, I could equally use comfy trainer-like touring shoes, beardy-weirdy clipless sandals or my ultra-stiff carbon soled shoes, depending on what I'm up to.

Result

Thanks for the input from everyone. Cheers.

NB I got the kit at half-decent prices compared to RRPs: the Candy SL pedals for £55 from JE James - elsewhere, generally £70-85; and Chasm shoes for around £110 (2009 model + haggling) from Royles - compared to £160-180 for 2010 model.

Wheelspinner

Might be a bit late here, but Shimano have a pretty new model road SPD pedal out, which is *supposed* to be Ultegra standard. They are certainly nice. It's called the A600, and they are very nice to ride indeed. Light, comfortable and very well finished, that darker grey (like Ultegra SL colour).

ALso, I tried the Ritchey Pro Micro V4 pedals someone mentioned above and while they are nifty looking, dead easy to use, VERY light and reasonably priced, I found two problems with them: the cleats look like Shimano SPD but are in fact different, so that the Ritchey ones will work in a Shimano pedal but Shimano SPD cleats won't fit the V4 pedal.. and more importantly, I got dreadful hot spots from these pedals, even with good solid shoes. Maybe with a super rigid carbon sole shoe you might be ok, but tbh, I'd give them a miss.

soveda

rdt wrote:

I've been using Crank Brothers Quattro pedals with some carbon-soled road shoes for some time, liking the double-sided operation (easier to clip into first-time than SPD-SL) and the ability to hobble about OK in the cleats without breaking my neck.

Now Crank Brothers, in their wisdom, have stopped making them, and seems even getting the cleats is going to be a problem. Coupled with my road shoes being worn out (through hobbling about in them) and ill-fitting in the first place, means I'm considering other options....

With ultra-stiff (carbon-soled) MTB shoes now available, I'm wondering if there's much mileage in the option of using a shoe like that with a recessed cleat system (and corresponding road pedals)? Would that mean SPDs, or are there other recessed cleat systems that might fit the bill?

From what I remember, SPDs allow your foot to twist around a fair amount, so they might feel a bit "loose" I suppose. I also remember being able to feel the tiny contact point through the shoe, but that was with a crappy bendy soled shoe, not a solid carbon sole.

Any suggestions on the options here? Cheers.

I know this was from ages ago but these guys:
http://www.thebikechain.co.uk/store/product/264/Crank-Brothers-Quattro-Cleats-3-Hole-Fixed/

Get 3 hole crank bros cleats regularly (20 pairs per month)

daviesee

I use Shimano A520 spd pedals and Sidi mtb/touring shoes.
The Sidi's have a stiff sole and as I am not racing at any level I can't see how any weight savings will overcome the convenience of actually being able to walk.
Works for me. Your mileage may vary.