Idiots riding the wrong way around trails

Dirtydog11

I'd just like to express my annoyance at the three lads who where flying the wrong way down the first fireroad climb at the Marin yesterday (it would have been around 1.00pm).

Its not big and its not clever and if you where to cause an accident there's a good chance you will get your head kicked in.

For your own sake and the sake of others don't do it!

It might be possible that they took the wrong turn but seeing three other riders coming up the hill should have indicated that something wasn't right. :x

wordnumb

I agree that it's stupid on singletrack, but is it such a bad thing on a fire road?

heez29

wordnumb wrote:

I agree that it's stupid on singletrack, but is it such a bad thing on a fire road?

Thats what i was thinking but it depends on how quickly they were going tbh.

Kiblams

I was under the impression that fireroads are two way... :?

Splottboy

They may have been trying to get Medical assistance, perhaps?

If not, then if they keep to the left, and verbalise their presence, it's not a hanging offence, but bloody annoying all the same...

Saw an idiot at CYB years ago, going against the trails flow, with no shirt on, hired bike. Helmet was on the bars rubbing on the front wheel. Took a gravel covered corner in a skid showing off.

Didn't come off...unfortunately!

Dirtydog11

I agree that it's a far more dangerous thing to do on singletrack than fireroad but I don't think riding the wrong way down fireroad climbs should be accepted as an OK thing to do.

Imagine what it would be like if everyone did it!

Maybe I'm just turning into an old moanin git.

grumsta

A fire road could have forestry traffic coming on it either way, so I don't see why people can't cycle on it either way too. Before all this purpose built stuff didn't lots of people just cycle round fire roads for fun?

Dirtydog11

grumsta wrote:

A fire road could have forestry traffic coming on it either way, so I don't see why people can't cycle on it either way too. Before all this purpose built stuff didn't lots of people just cycle round fire roads for fun?

Yes they probably did but you would have been expecting it.

grumsta

Yes they probably did but you would have been expecting it.

Well why not try having a little awareness about what is going on around you instead of expecting everything to be perfectly safe and convenient?

andrewjoseph

Fire roads are for everyone, mtb'ers, walkers, horse riders, farmers and tractors, FC vehicles and emergency vehicles, just because it is used as a climb on a waymarked route doesn't mean that is its exclusive use. Everyone has as much right to ride it in whatever direction they chose.

Riding dangerously is another thing altogether, but there is no mention of this, just riding the 'wrong' way.

Just bear in mind that it is not illegal to ride even the singletrack sections the 'wrong' way. As riders we have unlimited access to ride on FC land wherever we like, as long as we cause no damage. It is also not illegal for walkers or other users to be on the marked singletrack trails, going in any direction.

I regularly ride down the penhydd fireroad 'climb' at Afan, or I would have to ride all of penhydd trail just to get to start a club ride!

if you are on a fireroad and not expecting other traffic, then you are riding dangerously yourself.

Fireroads are not the sole property of mtb'ers, they are not 'one way streets', never expect right of way, never expect the route to be same as the last time. Always respect other trail users.

CycloRos

+1, it's a fire road! so you have to be aware and accept all other users of it in whatever direction they may be traveling. Obviously the same goes for the guys who were bombing down it too (being considerate of other users) but apart from that you don't really have any reason to complain...

Dirtydog11

andrewjoseph wrote:

Fire roads are for everyone, mtb'ers, walkers, horse riders, farmers and tractors, FC vehicles and emergency vehicles, just because it is used as a climb on a waymarked route doesn't mean that is its exclusive use. Everyone has as much right to ride it in whatever direction they chose.

Riding dangerously is another thing altogether, but there is no mention of this, just riding the 'wrong' way.

Just bear in mind that it is not illegal to ride even the singletrack sections the 'wrong' way. As riders we have unlimited access to ride on FC land wherever we like, as long as we cause no damage. It is also not illegal for walkers or other users to be on the marked singletrack trails, going in any direction.

I regularly ride down the penhydd fireroad 'climb' at Afan, or I would have to ride all of penhydd trail just to get to start a club ride!

if you are on a fireroad and not expecting other traffic, then you are riding dangerously yourself.

Fireroads are not the sole property of mtb'ers, they are not 'one way streets', never expect right of way, never expect the route to be same as the last time. Always respect other trail users.

I stand corrected. I wasn't aware that it was ok to ride the wrong way /right way anyway you like up fireroads and singletrack.

So, if I was riding the wrong way /right way up/down a singletrack/fireroad and collided with another rider who was following the arrows, who would take the lions share of the blame? Him for not being aware or me for going the wrong/ right way around a trail, or would we be both at fault?

It seems ridiculous on safety grounds that you can ride around in whatever direction you like!

I'll bear this in mind next time.

Thewaylander

Fireroad is treated like briday ways, are open to vehicles of all descriptions to travel in anyway.

Think of the single tack as your bit the firetrack is just used by your trail to get across to some more single track, everyone has the right to travel as they please on it. its not a specific built peace of firetrack for your trail but part of the forrestry safety and transport systems.

bomberesque

andrewjoseph wrote:

As riders we have unlimited access to ride on FC land wherever we like, as long as we cause no damage.

Is that right andrew? I'm not challenging you, it's just that I I didn't know that and find it a little surprising. Not in Scotland of course where the law is basically that for all land but in England and Wales I thought the regulations were tighter. What's the special thing about FC land, is it just that the FC give blanket approval for access as the landowner?

+1 for comments about fireroads though, ofc they're used by all and sundry and rightly so.

clodhoppa74

apparently that was me yesterday (not at marin though)... but in my defence they'd changed the trails.

mikeage

Dirtydog11 wrote:

It seems ridiculous on safety grounds that you can ride around in whatever direction you like!

.

It seems ridiculous to me that anyone would be suprised at mountain bikers riding the route they wanted to ride! Maybe they weren't even riding the 'trail centre' but simply riding the hills?

boogercj

mikeage wrote:

Dirtydog11 wrote:

It seems ridiculous on safety grounds that you can ride around in whatever direction you like!

.

It seems ridiculous to me that anyone would be suprised at mountain bikers riding the route they wanted to ride! Maybe they weren't even riding the 'trail centre' but simply riding the hills?

+1 and IMO if you can't avoid hitting someone on a fire road, maybe you shouldn't be riding in the first place..

Anonymous

remember that the Marin trail is just a small part of Gwydyr forest. No reason to limit yourself to riding the waymarked trail.

dsmiff

We went wrong on that section towards the end of the route you come to some cross roads, we turned left and ended up starting to do the route again :oops: , if you turn right you head back down the fire road - Looking at the map, it's a good place for a shortcut back to the car park :idea:

andrewjoseph

Dirtydog11 wrote:

...

I stand corrected. I wasn't aware that it was ok to ride the wrong way /right way anyway you like up fireroads and singletrack.

I'm not saying it is 'OK" for anyone to ride singletrack the wrong way, just that there is no legal obligation for them to do so. (as far as i am aware)

So, if I was riding the wrong way /right way up/down a singletrack/fireroad and collided with another rider coming down the trail, who would take the lions share of the blame. Him for not being aware or me for going the wrong/ right way around a trail, or would we be both at fault?

I'll bear this in mind next time.

I'm not sure of the legalities of this, both parties have equal right to ride, both parties should be aware of the intended direction of travel, both parties should ride so they can stop in the distance that they can see is clear.

The rider coming the wrong way may be aware they are using the trail against the intended direction of travel, or they may not. Depending on how they joined that section of trail. if they rode through barriers or past some sign showing 'no entry' or similar, then it could be argued that they knowlingly disregarded the safety instruction the FC had put up.

If they were just riding natural trails through the forest for the first time, unaware that there were mtb trails in the area and also unaware of trail etiquette, (highly unlikely I know), and then began riding this 'interesting' looking trail the 'wrong' way, then I don't know how you would apportion blame.

Similarly, I have nearly collided with walkers on Afan waymarked mtb trails several times, walking their dogs and kids and pushchairs anyway they please.

Now, I know I am riding an mtb trail, but I don't have anymore right to be there than they do. I tell these people that this is a waymarked mtb trail and they are quite likely to get more cyclists hurtling along at any moment. Sometimes they scarper off the trail 'cos I've frightened the crap out of them all (and myself) by skidding to a halt and ending up in a heap beside the trail, other times they just say, 'yeah, so?', and continue on their way.

I also know that I am just as likely to come across a fallen tree, a dead badger, or a very much alive red deer buck with a big pair of antlers. I say this because I have almost ridden into all of these things and more.

I ride, and teach people to ride, safely and with respect for the environment and other trail users. Sometimes this means I don't ride as fast as I could, because I can't assume that it is safe to ride flat out around around a blind bend. I could ride straight into another rider who's already on the floor due to a branch at head height knocking him of his bike. (This is also something that has happened to me.)

The sooner riders realise that waymarked trails are not always safe to ride and that it is never safe to assume the trail is clear, the better for everyone, especially the emergency services, who don't really enjoy carrying bodies off the mountain.

I seem to have gone off on a bit off a tangent but I was enjoying myself too much to stop. My apologies.

grumsta

It seems ridiculous on safety grounds that you can ride around in whatever direction you like!

It's called the countryside, it can be a dangerous place if you're not paying attention. It's not the same as going on a ride in a theme park.

Dirtydog11

boogercj wrote:

mikeage wrote:

Dirtydog11 wrote:

It seems ridiculous on safety grounds that you can ride around in whatever direction you like!

.

It seems ridiculous to me that anyone would be suprised at mountain bikers riding the route they wanted to ride! Maybe they weren't even riding the 'trail centre' but simply riding the hills?

+1 and IMO if you can't avoid hitting someone on a fire road, maybe you shouldn't be riding in the first place..

But no one did hit anyone, as I said before I stand corrected. I now realise that I can ride wherever I want on forestry commision land and in any direction I see fit.

MrChuck

Dirtydog11 wrote:

I stand corrected. I wasn't aware that it was ok to ride the wrong way /right way anyway you like up fireroads and singletrack.

So, if I was riding the wrong way /right way up/down a singletrack/fireroad and collided with another rider who was following the arrows, who would take the lions share of the blame? Him for not being aware or me for going the wrong/ right way around a trail, or would we be both at fault?

It seems ridiculous on safety grounds that you can ride around in whatever direction you like!

I'll bear this in mind next time.

You weren't on the trail, you were on the fireroad, which people can ride up and down in whichever direction they like. I don't understand why you would expect any different.

andrewjoseph

bomberesque wrote:

Is that right andrew? I'm not challenging you, it's just that I I didn't know that and find it a little surprising. Not in Scotland of course where the law is basically that for all land but in England and Wales I thought the regulations were tighter. What's the special thing about FC land, is it just that the FC give blanket approval for access as the landowner?

As far as I am aware, FC land is open to all non-vehicular leisure use. FC land is government property, we are all 'stakeholders' and have right of access. I can't tell you the regulations but from talking to FC staff/rangers at Afan this is the way I understand it.

Dirtydog11

MrChuck wrote:

Dirtydog11 wrote:

I stand corrected. I wasn't aware that it was ok to ride the wrong way /right way anyway you like up fireroads and singletrack.

So, if I was riding the wrong way /right way up/down a singletrack/fireroad and collided with another rider who was following the arrows, who would take the lions share of the blame? Him for not being aware or me for going the wrong/ right way around a trail, or would we be both at fault?

It seems ridiculous on safety grounds that you can ride around in whatever direction you like!

I'll bear this in mind next time.

You weren't on the trail, you were on the fireroad, which people can ride up and down in whichever direction they like. I don't understand why you would expect any different.

Because I wasn't aware it was a free for all.

andrewjoseph

Dirtydog11 wrote:

[.... I now realise that I can ride wherever I want on forestry commision land and in any direction I see fit.

As long as you are prepared to take responsibility for the consequences.

Dirtydog11

andrewjoseph wrote:

Dirtydog11 wrote:

[.... I now realise that I can ride wherever I want on forestry commision land and in any direction I see fit.

As long as you are prepared to take responsibility for the consequences.

Surely If there are no rules as far as direction is concerned I would take no more responsibility than the man going the 'right' way around the trail.

It has already been said that I'm at fault for not expecting someone to be coming the other way and I'm quite happy to accept that!

wordnumb

andrewjoseph wrote:

I tell these people that this is a waymarked mtb trail and they are quite likely to get more cyclists hurtling along at any moment. Sometimes they scarper off the trail 'cos I've frightened the crap out of them all (and myself) by skidding to a halt and ending up in a heap beside the trail, other times they just say, 'yeah, so?', and continue on their way.

Oh, I love those conversations. I'm a fairly loquacious and friendly person, it seems reasonable to mention to walkers that - although they have every right to walk where they like - it might be best to understand that this particular path, the one with all the bike tyre imprints in the mud, is a waymarked mountain bike trail frequented at speed.

Happy happy, friendly friendly?

No. I swear these people walk the trails dreaming of injury compensation claims. Especially the ones pushing prams up DH routes.

:evil:

fitch28

in scotland i believe if an area of land is designated to a particular sport it is exempt from the 'right to roam'. although this is part of the land reform act which doesn't apply down south. just wondering if there is anything in english law which is similar that would prevent walkers being on land designated for mountainbiking?

Stormtrooper

I was climbing up the first section of whites a few weeks back and was met by three fellas flying towards me on downhill bikes and they werent taking it easy either, now that was a bit scary as there was no where for any of us to go.

ravey1981

I was under the impression that the designated mtb trails were for the sole use of mtbers? Seems like I'm wrong.... I have administered several bollockings in my time to walkers trudging along mtb trails.

They are usually clearly marked as mtb trails so I guess walkers should venture onto them at their own peril...

In this siuation who would have right of way? I assume the bike? If I were to ride on footpaths in the forest which i never ever do I would always yield to walkers, its only fair... And usually a cheery hello would be exchanged.

What about if a horse was on a mtb trail? Living in the countryside I'm well aware how to deal with horses (slow right down, warn the rider youre there etc and pass at a distance if possible) but if I were to come across one when i'm hurtling along a mtb track....then what?