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headset set-up for no hands

cborrmancborrman Posts: 125
edited October 2009 in MTB workshop & tech
I have just got a stumpjumper after and epic and a rockhopper, one problem is that both with original bar and stem, as well as now with a thompson zero rise 90mm and easton monkeybar, I cannot take hands of the bar even a split second as the steering goes all over the place

Am I over / under tightening? Or is it that the steeper angle of the suspension on a stumpie does not make for no hands? it is a pain for easting food etc. on long rides, any ideas?
s-works stumpy FSR, sl2 tarmac, siglespeed rockhopper and a bog standard allez

Posts

  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    the headset set up is just that you set it up to preload the bearings not for handless riding. that is more to do with the rider.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • cborrmancborrman Posts: 125
    ... implied is that I can do no hands on my other bikes every road, mountain, freeride, jump, race and bmx I have ridden in past 30 years... even the one I rented in the park last week with a basket for two kids at the front.

    Seriously any help appreciated, having to stop every time I need to open a gel or a bar on south downs way is a real PITA and time waster!
    s-works stumpy FSR, sl2 tarmac, siglespeed rockhopper and a bog standard allez
  • AndyAndy Posts: 8,207
    Must be the bike then :roll:
  • blakef111blakef111 Posts: 374
    if the headset has loose ball bearings, try packing them with teflon grease, should help care for the bearings but stiffen up the headset as well
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    blakef111 wrote:
    if the headset has loose ball bearings, try packing them with teflon grease, should help care for the bearings but stiffen up the headset as well

    err nope the headset will move just the same.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • blakef111blakef111 Posts: 374
    err nope, just packed mine full of grease today and it is now much stiffer
  • Retro4300Retro4300 Posts: 114
    Check your outer cable lengths.
    If too long the cables espically the ones from the stops from the frame to gear / brake lever may be pushing the bars to either the left or right.
  • stevet1992stevet1992 Posts: 1,502
    blakef111 wrote:
    err nope, just packed mine full of grease today and it is now much stiffer
    Questioning Nicklouse ? :shock: :lol:
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  • cborrmancborrman Posts: 125
    the bearings are sealed, so def not that. also think nicklouse is right, the leverage is so much and movement so slow It should not make much difference, unlike a diff for example where the parts are moving quickly.

    had a look at the cables and thought maybe on to something, but have re-routed them so they are balanced and still happens, also movement is quick and is random and just unstable rather than veering to one side or the other!
    s-works stumpy FSR, sl2 tarmac, siglespeed rockhopper and a bog standard allez
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Is a a head angle/weight distribution/balance effect causing the wheel to turn. Nothing to do with the bearings.
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  • cborrmancborrman Posts: 125
    you mean I am sat too far back / forward?

    interesting, will try tomorrow moving seat forward / back, and rotating the bars a bit, but everything out back is stock

    any ideas on too much / too little rebound in the fork????
    s-works stumpy FSR, sl2 tarmac, siglespeed rockhopper and a bog standard allez
  • biff55biff55 Posts: 1,404
    censored all to do with front forks , move seat back , increase momemtum before lifting hands away from bars.
  • SloperSloper Posts: 141
    I know motorcycles handle terribly with over-tightened steering bearings as the self-centring effect is reduced or even removed. At low speeds they can even be difficult to ride in a straight line with hands ON the bars. Try backing off the tension on the bearings a touch?
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Honestly, bearings have nothing to do with this. Once loaded correctly, they all feel the same. You cannot vary headset preload on a MTB.
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    well you can.

    you can over tighten it and kill it with indexed steering, new headset/bearing time.

    Or have it with play.

    :wink:

    do you over tighten your wheel bearings? or leave them with play in them?

    Neither you set them (or have them set/designed) so there is no binding or play.

    a headset is no different other than the user gets to play with it and gets it wrong more often than right.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • SloperSloper Posts: 141
    I'm confused. You know more than I do about MTBs Supersonic so I'm not going to disagree with you. But, my understanding of mtb steering bearings is that you preload them with the star-fangled nut (a way of "varying the preload"). I am guessing that the OPs bearing might have been over-preloaded? I might be missing something of course.. I'm confused as to what though :)

    Over-loading the steering bearings on a motorcycle (essentially the same as an mtb) can put a loading measured in tons on them. A 'notch' in the steering develops, usually (IME) in the straight-ahead position, which makes slow-speed steering very difficult.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    If they are over preloaded you would feel that straight away. And then it would be wrong.

    OK, so there may be a slight range of loads that are correct - but stray from that and is very obvious. You set it by feel.
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • diydiy Posts: 6,473
    you could switch to bananas instead, these are easy to open one handed.
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  • M1llh0useM1llh0use Posts: 863
    diy wrote:
    you could switch to bananas instead, these are easy to open one handed.

    THAT is thinking outside the box...
    {insert smartarse comment here}
  • cborrmancborrman Posts: 125
    right now bananas are the way forward :-)

    I am with supersonic on the bearings, I have installed a good few new forks and overhauled headsets a few times and never had this problem.

    even tried an old thompson set-back post and saddle further back today, does not solve issue.

    thinking cables again, the 2009 stumpjumper cable routing is just weird, and the jagwires are just too short to rule out cables even after a re-route...

    ... any ideas on routing other than refitting cables?

    would rather run a trailer full of bananas than refitting cables and fettling with gears
    s-works stumpy FSR, sl2 tarmac, siglespeed rockhopper and a bog standard allez
  • AndyAndy Posts: 8,207
    Maybe you should contact Specialized and tell them about how poorly designed their bike is for no handed riding?
  • steelosteelo Posts: 542
    I realise that drinking while riding is commonplace, what with camelbaks so common nowadays. Does eating something while moving really make that much difference to stopping for a few minutes to munch on an energy bar etc. I ride with quite a few people every week and sometimes when we stop every now and then someone will scoff some peanuts or take a bite of a mulebar etc., but i've never noticed anyone trying to eat while riding.

    Why not take a second camelbak with energy gel in it and sip from that while biking! :D
    Specialized Rockhopper '07
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  • ride_wheneverride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    keep one hand on the bars, other hand reaches for gel, put gel hand next to other hand to open, eat with gel hand, return packing to pocket.
    Neeermad
    Carbon 456
    456 lefty
    Pompino
    White Inbred
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    How's about stopping for a moment to admire the view, and have something to eat at the same time?
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