Has the internet gone too far now?

downfader

This is a thought that has been blowing through my mind for the past few weeks. We know the web can be a good place - wikipedia, learning resources and free entertainment etc.. but the darker side seems to be becoming more prominant thesedays.

I'm not talking of porno or anything like that. Sex is pretty much harmless hedonism in many ways. I'm talking of the proliferation of big websites who offer no comeback should they be missused. Youtube is a major example of this. Its like a social meme spreading across the web where anyone can say anything they feel like without repercussion. Doesnt matter if its abusive, racist or homophobic youtube do everything they can to avoid dealing with the issues

Another example is everytime theres a Police road block or speed trap people go straight online (facebook etc) and say "take a different route". Thus ruining the purpose of any speed trap or Police effort. Even local paper websites have played their part by reporting this on their travel info pages. :?

Misinformation is also rife now. How many times have you heard people quoting some nonsense about either the environment or government spending that they read online? At my workplace some people have even been coming out with new religeous nonsense and debasing science on the basis of some fruitloop who is telling them "jesus saves, send no money now".

Copyright infringement then.. we all know about this. How many video clips and films can you find illegally online? Rather a lot. Even on the biggest sites and often with no way for users to notify of infringement - which would save massively on the efforts of the copyright owners.

So this leads me to wonder..? How long before we see massive internet censorship, even here in the UK? I reckon it wont be long, as history has always told that when you take (massive) advantage as the detriment of others that will be taken away from you. :?

skinson

Phew!! To deep for me that, I think you've been reading to much stuff about censorship on the internet!!
Dave

afx237vi

Internet censorship is unrealistic and unenforceable. Same as DRM... as fast as people come up with methods to stop copyright infringement, people have found an easy-to-implement way around it.

When people in Iran are finding ways to use Twitter, how do you expect to censor what people in this country think?

deptfordmarmoset

Another example is everytime theres a Police road block or speed trap people go straight online (facebook etc) and say "take a different route". Thus ruining the purpose of any speed trap or Police effort. Even local paper websites have played their part by reporting this on their travel info pages.

On the other hand, the very openness of networking sites provides a very useful source of information, sometimes amazingly up-to-date, for the police.

I do see a cloud on the internet horizon, though. If the press - I'm thinking of Murdoch and co - do not find a way of making money online, they will very likely be led to trying to repress their competition. I believe something of that kind has already happened to the BBC's website: they have had to cut back on the amount of free information because of lobbying against ''unfair competition.''

downfader

afx237vi wrote:

Internet censorship is unrealistic and unenforceable. Same as DRM... as fast as people come up with methods to stop copyright infringement, people have found an easy-to-implement way around it.

When people in Iran are finding ways to use Twitter, how do you expect to censor what people in this country think?

I dont think it is all that unrealistic. Iran doesnt have anywhere near the capabilities we have here, we have control over the companies that provide access, we have control over the technology such as telecommunication transmitters etc.

You can never sensor what people think. But the point is you can limit access and information (or mis' in some cases). My view is becoming now that bad eggs are a social meme spreading this illness out into the general society.

EDIT: perhaps we need "happy trolls" online to spread correction and manners?

edhornby

quick someone shut this thread down, someone's talking sense

I've often wondered if this is the logical outcome, but there again, how do you put the genie back in the bottle? My conclusion is invariably that it's better to have the free speech and live with the consequences, otherwise you lose more that you'll gain

good post downfader

shouldbeinbed

Theres often the odd little story of the emergent democracies/economies like China that have massive curbs on what their populace get to see on the internet. It's not beyond the realm of reality that we could find our freedoms curbed heavily but TBH I think the government would rather snoop and pry into where we go online than restrict our access and not think that they know which of us are closet terrorists and which of us just like whittering on about bikes and women in lycra to look at.

Facebook is the worst for letting stuff slide. complete ignorance of complaints about very distasteful and offensive posting.

downfader

shouldbeinbed wrote:

Theres often the odd little story of the emergent democracies/economies like China that have massive curbs on what their populace get to see on the internet. It's not beyond the realm of reality that we could find our freedoms curbed heavily but TBH I think the government would rather snoop and pry into where we go online than restrict our access and not think that they know which of us are closet terrorists and which of us just like whittering on about bikes and women in lycra to look at.

Facebook is the worst for letting stuff slide. complete ignorance of complaints about very distasteful and offensive posting.

I often joke about the Facebook thing when people ask me at work if I'll add them (I'm not even on the site) and say its for "kiddy fiddlers and racists" Mind you if we all beleived what had been in the press over recent years about it then you could well take that view.

PARIS75

more to the point have you gone too far?

my head is spinning after reading that post

1footedninja

http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/09/29/the-war-against-free-thought/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/29/bbc-bloggers-journalism

http://cultofthedeadfish.blogspot.com/2009/07/ministry-halts-controversial.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Age

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Information

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unformation

possibly

jos2thehua

I've been thinking a lot about that also. One day it seems that there will be no privacy. Everyone will know what everyone else is doing at all times. Sort of scary to think about.

downfader

1footedninja wrote:

http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/09/29/the-war-against-free-thought/[/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/29/bbc-bloggers-journalism

http://cultofthedeadfish.blogspot.com/2009/07/ministry-halts-controversial.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Age

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Information

[/url]http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unformation

possibly

I managed to read some of that last night. Some of its pretty true, some of it comes across as paranoid. David Icke once came across as paranoid, but strip away the aliens and suddenly theres a lot he's been right about.

deptfordmarmoset

By coincidence, I came across a local blog that discusses 3 very recent instances of new technology (interweb, twitter, Youtube, etc) being used for righting perceived injustices. First, Trafigura, second London Underground, and third, aha, a trashy Daily Mail scribbler getting her come-uppance.

It's a bit long and involved but it's an good article if the subject interests you.

http://853blog.wordpress.com/

downfader

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

By coincidence, I came across a local blog that discusses 3 very recent instances of new technology (interweb, twitter, Youtube, etc) being used for righting perceived injustices. First, Trafigura, second London Underground, and third, aha, a trashy Daily Mail scribbler getting her come-uppance.

It's a bit long and involved but it's an good article if the subject interests you.

http://853blog.wordpress.com/

Quite good article that.

suzyb

I'm just browsing around whilst waiting for something to finish and came across this thread.

downfader wrote:

Another example is everytime theres a Police road block or speed trap people go straight online (facebook etc) and say "take a different route". Thus ruining the purpose of any speed trap or Police effort. Even local paper websites have played their part by reporting this on their travel info pages. :?

You need to come live around here. The main road is being closed for 5 days starting tomorrow and it wasn't until I saw the machines that rip up the road surface that I knew it was for resurfacing. And I still don't know exactly how much of the road is being closed despite looking in the local paper, the council's website and searching google.

shouldbeinbed

downfader wrote:

shouldbeinbed wrote:

Theres often the odd little story of the emergent democracies/economies like China that have massive curbs on what their populace get to see on the internet. It's not beyond the realm of reality that we could find our freedoms curbed heavily but TBH I think the government would rather snoop and pry into where we go online than restrict our access and not think that they know which of us are closet terrorists and which of us just like whittering on about bikes and women in lycra to look at.

Facebook is the worst for letting stuff slide. complete ignorance of complaints about very distasteful and offensive posting.

I often joke about the Facebook thing when people ask me at work if I'll add them (I'm not even on the site) and say its for "kiddy fiddlers and racists" Mind you if we all beleived what had been in the press over recent years about it then you could well take that view.

dunno about that side of things on FB, I was getting at deliberate trolling in the worst possible taste, can't really put it up without boring you to death but the nearest e.g I could put would be James Martin and Jeremy Clarkson esque views x10 aimed personally at you and your loved ones if you'd been killed on your bike and your family were reporting the sad news to people that they may not have any other means of contact for. People gloating in the death and devastation of others for god knows what pleasure it gives them. Facebook couldn't even be bothered to reply to a complaint let alone remove the posting.
can you imagine something like that staying on a bereavement thread on here?

bobpzero

as long as the internets doesnt become self aware were ok.

Cunobelin

Inthe 1640's many people used the new and readily available printing presses to publish pamphlets. these were often inaccurate, inflammatory and subversive.

The same is true now - there was be a minority who simply read the pamphlet, and because it suited them believed it implicitly.

Many people considered the presses to be something that needed to be banned and controlled. the licensing of presses in the middle ages was an attempt to do this.

Where would we be now if we had banned the printed word?

The answer is to recognise the limitations, reference or substantiate any information and use common sense when dealing with the internet

downfader

bobpzero wrote:

as long as the internets doesnt become self aware were ok.

Funny you should say that. I did read in a magazine (perhaps New Scientist) some years back that a virus could be written sometime in the future that forms a "collony" link with the many, many puters cpu power. This would converge into a "living entity", in the same way that single celled bacteria eventually worked in symbiosis with others and then later fused into multi cellular lifeforms... and so on.

If that happens online it would certainly be interesting (and I wonder if it will become as interested in conspiracy theories and porn as humans are)

1footedninja

http://www.oilempire.us/conspiracy.html

http://astrologyofconspiracy.blogspot.com/

http://www.physorg.com/news119633096.html

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/149853

http://www.plim.org/CONSPIRACY.htm

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/aquarian.htm

http://www.baphomet2013blog.info/2009/07/conspiracy-fact.html

http://www.theanalysis.net/

possibly

passout

You could look at it another way. Using the internet calls for 'self-regulation' rather than regulation by a company or Government body. The idiots will use idiotic websites and sensible people won't. I don't see the problem myself. There will be a period of adjustment for the movie and music industry but I don't exactly feel sorry for them. The only real danger of the internet is that it can exaggerate / confirm tendencies that are already there - suicide, racism etc BUT it doesn't create them. The internet can also be used to spread 'good' & help people. It simply reflects the people using it, the internet is neutral.

downfader

passout wrote:

You could look at it another way. Using the internet calls for 'self-regulation' rather than regulation by a company or Government body. The idiots will use idiotic websites and sensible people won't. I don't see the problem myself. There will be a period of adjustment for the movie and music industry but I don't exactly feel sorry for them. The only real danger of the internet is that it can exaggerate / confirm tendencies that are already there - suicide, racism etc BUT it doesn't create them. The internet can also be used to spread 'good' & help people. It simply reflects the people using it, the internet is neutral.

Good post, but my quandry was really whether the people misusing it have put it in jeopardy for us all. I suppose I could have worded the title better.

Porgy

jos2thehua wrote:

I've been thinking a lot about that also. One day it seems that there will be no privacy. Everyone will know what everyone else is doing at all times. Sort of scary to think about.

It'll be like things were hundreds of years ago then when we all lived in little communities - privacy for most of us only came with large towns, personal wealth and enforceable laws.

My only worry is if there's a powerful state/corporation(s) able to control access to and holding a secret database of personal information - i wouldn;t mind so much if it was fully transparent and accessible by anyone and everyone...which is probably inevitable if you take the internet to its logical conclusions.

passout

Porgy wrote:

jos2thehua wrote:

I've been thinking a lot about that also. One day it seems that there will be no privacy. Everyone will know what everyone else is doing at all times. Sort of scary to think about.

It'll be like things were hundreds of years ago then when we all lived in little communities - privacy for most of us only came with large towns, personal wealth and enforceable laws.

My only worry is if there's a powerful state/corporation(s) able to control access to and holding a secret database of personal information - i wouldn;t mind so much if it was fully transparent and accessible by anyone and everyone...which is probably inevitable if you take the internet to its logical conclusions.

Perhaps but it depends how 'optional' the net will be in the future. It's fairly easy not to put sensitive personal info. on the net at the moment but, as you suggest, things are moving fast!

Cressers

What should concern you is the inbuilt surveillance of the internet. Not even in the former German 'Democratic' Republic did govts and commercial organisations seek such 'total information awareness' as our supposedly 'free' societies do now. There is little control as to what data is harvested about you, who harvests it, and to what use that data is put. How long will it be before online shopping data will be used to profile those that the people in charge of the database deem behaviour is unacceptable to them? "You have purchased excess alcohol/carbon/saturated fat this week. Your ration will be reduced until you have undergone counselling, paid the appropriate excess consumption tax, and amended your behaviour..."

Science fiction for now, but soon it may be science fact. Remember that the only constraints on the use to which databases can be used are the moral scruples, or lack of them, of the people in charge of the database.

passout

Well there is the 1984 Data Protection Act. Which, at the very least, show that laws can be put in place regarding confidential information. Also we are living in a captialist country so info. is more likely to be used to influence our consumption (just as TV ads do) rather than control our lives in a Big Brother fashion. Less control, more manpulation maybe? Interesting times...

Cressers

Sadly it seems we'll get the worst of both...