What would you do?

Onan

I've mentioned before that I have this really awkward junction on my commute, and I hate it, and often end up copping out, and riding on the pavement, which I realise is unpopular around here, so I wanted to see what you would do.

There's a very busy set of lights, 5 lanes of chaos, then another set of lights with a filter straight afterwards, and I need to turn right at both. The problem is, to do it in any way safely, I need to get accross lanes at least 4 times in total.

Into the junction I have to come accross 2 lanes to put me in a safe spot to turn right at the lights. I then have to come accross to the right hand side of the lane I'm in straight after the junction in order to safely turn into the filter lane at the next set of lights. Then I have to get straight back accross to the left of the lane as soon as possible, or else I end up stuck in the middle of the road on a hill. Whatever I do seems to annoy drivers immensely.

I'm considering giving up on it, and just getting off and pushing every day. Am I being a big girls blouse?

don_don

I think I would ride (slowly) on the pavement and stay alive :shock:

biondino

You're not a big girl's blouse. In circumstances like this taking the safest option is almost certainly the correct one. It's hard to MTFU when you're in a coma.

Kieran_Burns

The law against riding on he pavement is designed to stop idiots harrassing pedestrians NOT stop sensible cyclists who are trying to stay alive.

Ride on the pavement.

prawny

Do what you feel safest doing, I'd probably get off and push, sounds nasty.

Although couldn't you just stay right all the way along? Or am I reading it wrong?If it's dual carriage way I'd stay right until it's safe, if not, shanks's pony time.

lost_in_thought

I don't mean to be... well... mean, but ignore the drivers, you've just as much right to be there as they have, ride assertively and you'll be fine. Getting off and pushing is like admitting defeat!

I'm presuming that, with that many lights, the traffic isn't moving particularly quickly?

There's a section of my commute where I have to go left at a rdbt then move across 3 or 4 lanes (depending how early I manage to start moving) to turn right. Going the other way I'm turning right on a lighted 4-lane rdbt. I stick my arm out and go for it - precious few drivers are actually trying to kill you, and all of them know which pedal the brake is.

Onan

prawny wrote:

Do what you feel safest doing, I'd probably get off and push, sounds nasty.

Although couldn't you just stay right all the way along? Or am I reading it wrong?If it's dual carriage way I'd stay right until it's safe, if not, shanks's pony time.

I could stay right by getting one lane further over going into the junction, but I find I get cut up doing that. I prefer to go through the lights at the left hand side of the right hand lane (there's two lanes turning right) because it allows me to filter up to the lights, and at least be visible, and safe going accross.

Even so, I'd still need to get over to the left again in the filter lane, because I've found motorists, really don't like me on their right hand side going up a hill. :oops:

MonkeyMonster

Can you google map this junction so we can all have a gander?

I too would fall into the *awesome* LiT camp and suggest you act like a car and take a space and stay on the bike.

spen666

Kieran_Burns wrote:

The law against riding on he pavement is designed to stop idiots harrassing pedestrians NOT stop sensible cyclists who are trying to stay alive.

Ride on the pavement.

No, the law against riding on the pavement is there to stop people riding on the pavement. There is no gloss on the wording of the law, it is clear and simple

Onan

That's it.

I'm coming down leek road, turning right into bucknall road, then you can see where my filter lane starts for turning right again into dividy road.

This must have been taken at 5 in the morning on a bank holiday or something, because I've never been through there with that little traffic. At rush hour people going straight accross are quite often out in the middle of the junction clogging it up.

Onan

Why didn't that work? lol. Hold on.

Jamey

That link doesn't work but I think you mean this junction - http://bit.ly/1grAUk

Is that right?

Onan

Jamey wrote:

That link doesn't work but I think you mean this junction - http://bit.ly/18YmlD

Is that right?

I fixed it, but yeah, that's my junction. Followed by the right turn at the lights after it.

Jamey

Would the cars be less annoyed if they knew you needed to stay right? So, for example, might it help if you just indicated right for the majority of the time so they could see you had no other option, perhaps?

Sometimes it's just a lack of information that leads to these misunderstandings. If you give the cars the information (that you need to go right) they'll make use of that and not be so annoyed because they can then see it won't be for long.

nielsamd

Looking at that map what catches my eye is an alternate route to the south: Trentmill Road, Fenton Road. But perhaps there is a downside to that as well? Too isolated in the dark? Too much further?

feltkuota

Being right and dead is no help. Do what you feel safest and forget about anything else.

skyd0g

Could you possibly avoid that set of junctions by turning off at Trentmill Road & then along Fenton Road? :?

prawny

Urgh! Stoke, I think the only course of action is to move

I like te look of the trentmill road route although it's obviously unlit, do drivers use it as a rat run?

Headhuunter

Buy a mountain or cross bike and hack across that lovely green patch that runs between Leek Rd and Dividy, it cuts the whole junction out completely. There appears to be a worn track running more or less across it.

Eau Rouge

spen666 wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

The law against riding on he pavement is designed to stop idiots harrassing pedestrians NOT stop sensible cyclists who are trying to stay alive.

Ride on the pavement.

No, the law against riding on the pavement is there to stop people riding on the pavement. There is no gloss on the wording of the law, it is clear and simple

It's not that clear and simple. The Minister responsible issued the following guidlines to the police...

Paul Boateng wrote:

The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

which nicely muddies the waters again.

I like nielsamd idea of Trentmill Rd, though maybe taking the cutting into Kettering Drive instead.

spen666

Eau Rouge wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

The law against riding on he pavement is designed to stop idiots harrassing pedestrians NOT stop sensible cyclists who are trying to stay alive.

Ride on the pavement.

No, the law against riding on the pavement is there to stop people riding on the pavement. There is no gloss on the wording of the law, it is clear and simple

It's not that clear and simple. The Minister responsible issued the following guidlines to the police...

Paul Boateng wrote:

The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

which nicely muddies the waters again.

I like nielsamd idea of Trentmill Rd, though maybe taking the cutting into Kettering Drive instead.

What Paul Boateng said is irrelevant. It does not change the law at all.

It may change the police approach to dealing with criminals, but it does not change the law, so what I said in my earlier post is 100% correct.

The word of a politician does not over rule an Act of Parliament

Special K

You are trying to cross the A52 during rush hour.

Does that sound like a good idea?

My advice is: change your route to something more pleasant such as

going left well before the junction and using the obviously residential roads, e.g. go into Heath house Lane

I used to commute on major A roads because those are the ones I would have driven on. However, as cyclists we have slightly different safety needs and also don't need to be on the main roads all the time to get anywhere fast. no I commute using less busy B roads and the canals. It takes slightly longer if I am honest, usually because I enjoy the ride and the scenery a bit more...

Eau Rouge

spen666 wrote:

The word of a politician does not over rule an Act of Parliament

True, that is left to the ruling of a Judge, though how the Minister responsible for an Act describes that Act may indeed influence those judges. Is there much case law on this Act yet?

Onan

I think the best advice here was to change my route. It means a longer ride, but that's not such a bad thing.

The trentmill road/fenton road route is not an option though unfortunately. Or certainly not on my road bike. What is marked on maps as fenton road is actually a gravel/dirt path with gates along it and potholes the size of the great lakes.

The amusing thing is that peoples satnavs tell them it's a proper road, so anything up to HGVs get stuck along there regularly.

Eau Rouge

Onan wrote:

IThe trentmill road/fenton road route is not an option though unfortunately.

It looks like there is a "footpath" accessway between Trentmill Rd and Kettering Dr. though.

Onan

Threadomancy!

Just wanted to re-raise this issue to point out that I have found that commuting more on my road bike recently has made this much easier. I feel better able to accelerate, and match the ambient pace of traffic, making changing lanes, and maintaining a good road position easier. Pootling on the dodgy hybrid is much harder.

So my advice for anyone experiencing similar problems with junctions and busy roads is to get a faster bike!