c2c bad tour/B&B experience

silvermetalfox

Hi all,

On a recent c2c tour provided by a company my friends were staying the night in Penrith at a B&B organised by the man running the event.

Sadly the night before they were due to start all of their bikes were stolen from a shed that the B&B/organiser had stored them in. The bikes have never been recovered and now neither party is taking responsibility for the theft, leaving my friends out of pocket.

This is despite immediantly after the event my friends being told that between the B&B and the tour organiser they would replace the stolen bikes like for like. It would appear that once they found out the cost of the bikes they had a change of mind. My friends aren't wealthy and can't afford to splash out again on expensive bikes.

The B&B itself claims on its website to have secure storage for bikes, but in reality it is a shed that the owner doesn't lock up at night (only found out when the police took statements).

It now seems that in trying to cover their backs the B&B is only going through a solicitor, and is claiming that a sign in each room opts him out of responsibility should bikes be stolen (funnily enough none of the people involved saw any signs at the time or had it pointed out to them).

Not once have either the tour organiser or the B&B apologised or tried to take into account that each of the people involved will be around a thousand pounds out of pocket & had a holiday ruined; obviously, one would hope, there is no link between them and the bikes being stolen in the first place, but one would still expect a bit of consideration.

I wanted to post this as a warning to people that there are still risks involved when using some places that claim to be bike friendly and appear to be looking after everything. Yes, I admit that my friends were niave in not having asked for something written down in advance stating whose responsibility any thefts would fall to, but likewise one would hope that a trustworthy company would have this within their terms and that a B&B chosen by a bike tour company would as well.

A painful lesson learned.

I have avoided writing the names of either the tour company or the B&B, but should I make them known so that others can avoid the same issue?

Buckled_Rims

It's always easy to view things with hindsight and even easier to criticize your friends naivety. Me, personally, I would always stick a bike lock on. Even in a secure shed as if that gets broken into at least I have the satisfaction they'll take some time cutting through my u-lock. Plus, 2 bikes locked together is a pig to carry, 3 even worse :twisted:

Look at the small print on any brochure that describes "secure". I reckon the B&B would be mainly responsible. If the tour operator describes "secure" storage on it's brochure, then he's responsibility to ensure the B&B has adequate secure storage and he might be partly to blame. The whole purpose of tour operators is to take the main planning from their client.

If the cost of the bike and gear (1 claim per person) were less then £2k, try the small claims court. It's "should" be faster to sort out claims then rely on solicitors.

clanton

Name and shame.

alfablue

I would like to know who the B&B/Tour company were, but I reckon it is better to hold off until you have completed your claim.

Don't expect them to see sense and pay up, it is a comparatively large amount of money and they will most likely do everything to avoid their responsibilities - you're going to have to play hard ball.

My guess is that if you bought a package, then liability is with the tour operator, and this is where you should put your efforts (they may have a counter claim against the B&B), if secure parking was advertised as part of the deal. If they did not, but the B&B's claims led you to believe it was secure, then you may have a claim against the B&B.

petejuk

I would suggest the citizen's advice bureau and get a solicitor appointed. Or speak to the CTC to discuss the issue you have. It makes sense that all the victims of the theft stick together and approach it jointly.If there are brochures stating secure bike parking you need to highlight this. I agree with the earlier posts that your claim is with the tour company first. If all else fails, name and shame.

amaferanga

So none of them had their £1000 plus bikes insured? That's mental if so!

Or is it the case that their insurance isn't paying up since they weren't secured properly?

silvermetalfox

My understanding is that they were all assuming their household insurance would cover it, and/or that the tour company would be insured.

However, even if their individual household insurance did cover it my own thoughts would be that I wouldn't particular want to claim on it unless it was really really a last resort as it would bump up premiums etc. That said, one of their bikes was over 2k and I think I would claim myself rather then face paying that out again.

I think, however, that (perhaps) without directly being told so, it was implied that it was covered by the tour company somehow.

Its all in the detail I guess, and once bitten etc etc.

The Mickster

Name and shame before someone else suffers the same fate. There's little doubt in my mind that the tour operator is at fault if the brochure described 'secure bike storage'. It is their responsibility to check that the accommodation they are promoting meets all the criteria they advertise. It may also be worth looking into the type of insurance the tour company has. Surely they must have a policy that covers eventualities like this or they wouldn't/shouldn't be allowed to trade as a tour operator. Like someone mentioned, get legal advice from the CAB and do not let this drop. Hopefully all bike tour operators will think twice about their insurances and what they advertise. Your mates are innocent victims here who paid out in good faith.
Good luck with their claim and keep us posted if you can.

cedargreen

If the B&B claims on it's website that it has secure bike parking but then hasn't bothered to lock the shed, they have clearly failed to take reasonable steps to look after your property. I would print that page off the website before they change it, and pursue it through the tour company.

Hind sight is tuppence a bucket, but in my experience, hotels/ B&B's etc don't always realise the value/ desirability of bikes and the level of security needed to ensure their safe keeping. I'm paranoid about my 'best' bike and always check out where it's being stored when I stay somewhere- I've even insisted on keeping it in my room a few times- you might be surprised how many places will let you do this.

drknock25

In the interests of making people aware that they should check the fine print (and in no way inferring who has done what), the two businesses are:

http://www.norcroft-guesthouse.co.uk/

and:

http://www.adventurecycling.co.uk

silvermetalfox

Thanks for the input all.

I'll let you guys know what the outcome is once they've taken legal advice.

dilemna

What is the total value of all the bikes pinched? If less than £5,000 then issue an action in the Small Claims Court. If more than this the County Court. In issuing a claim it will be an action for an agreed sum. When making the claim place the Tour Operator and BnB as co-defendants.

They both have common law and statutory duty of cares toward you.
Also there is a piece of holiday/consumer legislation you can rely on but which I don't have access to at the moment. It will depend on whose name the trip was organised in and whether other members can rely on the Contract Rights and Third Parties Act 1977.

Also the tour organiser and BnB in making claims of secure parking which turned out not to be the case may result in a negligence (fraudulent misrep is very difficult to establish) action under the Misrepresentation Act 1967. The fact that the bike storage was advertised as secure may have been the reason the trip was purchased so was a fundamental term to the contract. The fact that there was no secure cycle storage means that the Tour Operator and BnB are in breach of contract. Also you should establish what security was in place. If the shed was broken into, locks broken then the storage was secure to a point. Presumably the Tour Operator's and Bnb's insurers would then cover the loss of your bikes. You might like to claim a refund and for loss of enjoyment of your trip as you were presumably unable to complete it if your bikes were stolen in Penrith and you were travelling from West to East.

Also all adverts must be true and not misleading so the Advertising Standards Agency might be interested as may Trading Standards.

If you issue a claim in the Small Claims or County Courts then the Tour Operator and BnB will miraculously be represented by their insurers. Stick to your guns I dont see you not being able to recover for the loss of your bikes and your trip. I would contend that they are trying to call your bluff and may well settle at the last minute. As someone suggested take a screen image of the organiser's website or BnB claiming secure storage and any pics before they are taken down. Scrutinise the contract you have. It may contain terms which could be veiwed as unfair under the Unfair Contract Terms Act.

Contact the CAB, CTC or seek your own legal advice. Bear in mind though legal costs are not generally recoverable in the Small Claims Court where as they would be in the County Court so a group action would be preferable to keep the value of the claim above £5,000 and heard in the County Court. You will need a solicitor in the County Court.

Good luck.

Special K

Nice one Dilemma. Sounds like good advice.

I wonder how things would have been if the group had been renting bicycles from the tour company and those had been stolen from the supposedly secure parking. Who would have been liable?

galaxyboy

I smell a rat.

I stayed there with a group when we done the c2c and the bikes were put in the shed, I checked the security and was guaranteed that the guy managing the place was the only key holder. I also checked that he had locked it and asked if any other groups were to put their bikes in there that night incase it were to be opened again. the guy knew the required security.

Any chance you could also post your experience on the c2c web forum?