Any consumer law experts out there?

pepelepew

I'm after a bit of advice.

(Edit - I'm talking about a motorbike.)

I put my bike in for some MOT work last Wednesday. One of the jobs was a new exhaust. I had a phone call on Thursday saying they had problems with two manifold bolts that had snapped off. I then heard nothing. I phoned just now and complained about lack of contact. "The bike's just finished sir". Yeah, right, whatever.

"What's the bill?"

"Ah, we haven't worked that out yet. We had a hell of a problem re-tapping the threads and had to get a specialist in."

I asked why wasn't I contacted first, to give the go ahead, because that sounds like a hefty bill. The guy on the phone was non-committal, and will 'get back to me'.

In a nutshell, how committed am I for paying for unauthorised expense. I accept that it was necessary for the new exhaust to be fitted, but the work is likeley to outweight the value of the bike. And the main issue is that they have not asked and have just gone ahead. I understand if i refuse to pay they keep my bike until the matter is resolved, but where do I go from there? Small claims court?

Frank the tank

Have you contacted citizens advice bureau, I'd have thought that would be a good starting place.

pepelepew

Frank the tank wrote:

Have you contacted citizens advice bureau, I'd have thought that would be a good starting place.

I will take it further, thanks.

I'm waiting for them to come back to me with a cost, just trying to see if I could get some quick short term advice to deal with them when (if) they ring back.

Jimi_08

It should be a straight case of you paying for the work you have asked and put the bike in for. As they have no grounds to stand on in suggesting that they have done you a favour by changing extra parts without warrant or knowledge by yourself. Definitely tell them outright you are not paying for the addition costs of the work they have done if you believe your bike was working fine up until the point of a job on the exhaust.

pepelepew

Rang Consumer Direct and got good advice. Just waiting for the tossers at the garage to ring me back.

hopper1

Just go round mob handed, flash your warrant card, give the bloke a few slaps, then.....
Oh, you can't do that anymore :oops: ..... Can you?

I hope the good advice you received said that you can't be charged for work you did not authorise.

pepelepew

hopper1 wrote:

Just go round mob handed, flash your warrant card, give the bloke a few slaps, then.....
Oh, you can't do that anymore :oops: ..... Can you?

I hope the good advice you received said that you can't be charged for work you did not authorise.

I wish!

Unfortunately not. Advised to 'Pay under protest', otherwise they keep the bike until it's settled. Garage rang back, said their costs were 13 hours at £48 per hour, plus £75 for the specialist. They have offered to charge me 5 hours @ £30 per hour and waive specialist bill. Will still 'Pay under protest' and consider my options. Will probably have to wear it though.

hopper1

F*ckin' hell!!! :shock:

Name and shame, bloke.... W*nkers! :evil: :evil:
Is this a classic bike, or something?

pepelepew

hopper1 wrote:

F*ckin' hell!!! :shock:

Name and shame, bloke.... W*nkers! :evil: :evil:
Is this a classic bike, or something?

No, bog standard 600 cc Bandit year 2000 model (if that means anything to you). All that for two sheared manifold bolts! Still not happy that is my financial responsibility. Don't know if they over inflated their original costs just to make me feel better. Credit card is quivering!

pneumatic

Sorry to hear that you have had your bike held to ransom. I feel for you.

My SAAB dealership did the same to me. I will NEVER forgive them.

Had a series of flats on front wheels and was for ever having to replace tyres because they had been "driven on flat" and the walls were therefore "unsafe" (I mean FFS why can't car tyres suffer being flattened and reinflated?)

I was told the problem was that the alloys were corroded and the tyres were tubeless so air was leaking out around the rims.

As the only supplier of SAAB parts for hundreds of miles, I asked them for a price on new alloys and they helpfully said, "bring the car in sir and we'll see if they can be reconditioned." Did so. Big mistake.

Next day. Good news! We can recondition 4 wheels for less than the cost of 1 new one. If that price is ok, we'll remove the wheels and send them over to the workshop this afternoon. Feeling pleased.

Day after. "Now, we've got the wheels off, I'm afraid we've discovered that your brake pads and discs are corroded, we'll need to change them. Oh and two of your tyres are dangerous" Told me how much: I nearly collapsed in shock.

Next day. "We've done a "healthcheck" on the vehicle and it looks like we'll need to replace the suspension arms and bushes front and rear." Told me how much . . . .

At this point, I am in despair. "No! I can't afford it. Put the wheels back on and give me my car back. I'll deal with the suspension when I've got the money.

It took me another 3 days to get the car back and they promptly tried to book it in again for the rest of the "essential" work. I'll phone you, was where I left it.

3 months later, in fear and trembling, healthcheck in hand, I take the car to my local mechanic for an MOT. NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. Except one of the "new" brake pads which has disintegrated.

There's more, but I am beginning to feel sick just thinking about it.

alan_sherman

Very cheap labour from that garage. I hate the fact that motorbikes are made to break the moment you try to replace work out stuff. Suzuki's particularly.

Whilst the shop shouldn't have gone ahead with the work without your approval - what would you have done otherwise? Scrap the bike? Or take elsewhere to get new studs? Still a sod of a job, all on top of the price of new pipes too. I hope you fitted stainless replacements that shoudl last the life of the bike!

Stewie Griffin

Pneumatic

Low profile tyres should not be used again after being driven on while flat. I was a Service Advisor for several dealerships many Years ago now and I would not have offered you the option of reconditioning your wheels, I would have sold you 2 brand spanking new ones, then pointed out that the rear ones look weird now, so you need another 2. Its perfectly possible for your pads and discs to be "corroded" and for the car to pass an MOT. As it is possible for Bushes to be worn and for it to still pass an MOT. I bet if you were to go back and check the list of required work (which you should have received with your invoice) it will say things like "suspension arms and bushes showing signs of wear"

If you had taken the car to them and they didnt report anything and your car failed its next MOT on such things as brakes tyres and suspension you would hit the roof and rightly so. Perhaps you should take your stupid football teams air freshener from your mirror before you take your car in . I always charged Gooners an extra 15%

Things I learned while working in the Motor Trade (1) Never take your car to a dealership unless its still within the Manufacturers Warranty (2) Unless your car is still covered by the Manufacturers Warranty never take it to a Dealership. I used to work for an Alfa Dealership and used to slag the local Alfa Specialists off "bunch of shortcut taking cowboys, they use inferior non standard parts and dont have the tools or the knowledge we have here at xxxxxxxx". I bet you cant guess who services my Alfa every year now :oops: ?

pneumatic

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Pneumatic

1. Low profile tyres should not be used again after being driven on while flat.

2. I always charged Gooners an extra 15%

3. Things I learned while working in the Motor Trade (1) Never take your car to a dealership unless its still within the Manufacturers Warranty

1. Then Low Profile tyres are a pile of crap! Imagine if Trek produced a bike with disposable tyres (throw away after every puncture). I wonder how many bikes they would sell. :roll:

2. I have always suspected that garage mehanics do a quick social profiling exercise based on the perceived lifestyle of the owner and charge accordingly. Even though my car is de-personalised, they still seem to have me down for a soft touch.

3. My rule of thumb is that if a garage is cleaner than a hospital, they call you sir and offer you free coffee, it is run by bandits. If everything in the establishment is coated in grease (the staff, the computer, the bill, the pirelli calendar) and they call you mate, it is only possibly run by bandits.

This car is the only one I ever bought brand new. I'm back to second hand next time without alloys or any other bling. In fact, I don't even like cars; they are just a necessary part of my daily technology, like toilets.

I just wish they still made 2CV's; best car I ever had and I could fix it up myself with a bicycle repair kit!

Stewie Griffin

1) They arent throw away every puncture, if you get to your car with a flat in the morning and replace it with the effing stupid spacesaver you might well be able to get the punctured tyre repaired. I had to replace a tyre after my last puncture as it happened at at motorway speed and I couldnt get off the road safely without driving on it.

2) Re the soft touch thing, we always treated everyone exactly the same .

3) Thats a good rule of thumb.

Isnt it funny that the same rule of thumb can be said of shiny Evans and Halfords versus my not v shiny but reliable and trustworthy LBS?

Sorry Pepe for hijacking the thread, no where I have worked for would spend your Money without asking you first unless we knew you as a Customer who would get it done anyway or it was a piddly little amount over a figure we had already agreed upon.

pepelepew

alan sherman wrote:

Very cheap labour from that garage. I hate the fact that motorbikes are made to break the moment you try to replace work out stuff. Suzuki's particularly.

Whilst the shop shouldn't have gone ahead with the work without your approval - what would you have done otherwise? Scrap the bike? Or take elsewhere to get new studs? Still a sod of a job, all on top of the price of new pipes too. I hope you fitted stainless replacements that shoudl last the life of the bike!

Yeah, £400 for full system. I accept the risk of studs shearing. I don't expect them to spend 13 hours at £48 a pop p!ssing about with it and not asking me what I want to do. Particularly as the specialist only charged £75 for his work when they called him in. Luckily I've ended up with a £150 labour bill. If they'd charged the full hit the bike would have stayed there 'til they saw sense.

I've always worked on older cars (wouldn't touch new ones - nightmare), need to start fixing my own bike I think.

STEFANOS4784

150 quid sounds quite reasonable considering, stop being a pain
Granted their 1st valuation was rediculous......

pepelepew

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

150 quid sounds quite reasonable considering, stop being a pain
Granted their 1st valuation was rediculous......

Aye, I know. Overreaction to 1st price, feeling a bit indignant at the time.

jc4lab

Which personal service part of the Which Magazine set up use to be good at sending scarey letters on your behalf but a bit costly if you aint going to use it often

MattC59

Contact Wiggle.

Sorry, that's sh*t !!

I think the crux to this is whether you told them to carry on with the work when they advised you of the problem with the bolts. If you did, but without them giving you a quote, you still agreed to the work being carried out.

I think you may be stuck with this, I had a similar situation some years ago:

I took my kit car for a tune up following an engine rebuild. I thought it would be about £400, they advised me of the work that would need to be done, and kept me informed through out the process. The problem is, I didn't get a firm price and, didn't consider the work and hourly cost involved.

Result; a bill for £1495 !! Not ideal, but I agreed to the work so paid the bill.......... that stung a bit !!

Hope you get it sorted.
M

Ollieda

A general rule is that equity does not aid the volunteer so if they went ahead and did the work without you being informed and giving them the go ahead then you should not be charged for this.

As they informed you about the snapped bolts, and you didn't say no at the time it is possible that it could be implied consent to continue and you might not be able to get away with that one but I would question about the specialist being called in. But as you said they waived the cost then they have sort of covered themselves on that one.

Good that you paid under protest as this can help at a later date, perhaps you should go back to see CAB as they will be able to look into it in more detail and see if you have a claim in small claims courts.

I remember taking my old car to a mechanic to have the drivers side floor pan cut out and a new one put in......he decided without telling me that whilst he's doing that one he may as well redo the rest of them!!! Price was a lot more obviously and he said it was nessecary work so I had to pay. I ended up going to see him with one of my senior law lecturers from uni....after a little chat he soon realised that he had no ground to stand on and agreed to only charge me for the work for the one floor pan.

Hope it works out for you!

iancgray

Hi peplepew, my first post on here.....so here goes. I'm no legal expert but as the owner of an independent garage & MOT centre, I've seen & heard of this type of problem on several occasions. I believe you have been presented with a couple of issues. Firstly, if you authorised (verbally or otherwise) the work to be carried out to its conclusion, then the repairer may have believed he had a free hand. Sometimes it's impossible to quote for some types of work because you simply do not know how long it will take. However, most businesses will have a fairly standard set of terms to cover this type of thing. Ours states "If during the course of carrying out repairs it becomes apparent that the total cost will exceed any quotation given then we will contact the customer for further authorisation before continuing" I believe that unless you said "carry on regardless of cost" then the repairer had at least a moral obligation to inform you that things were getting out of hand and that the cost would be considerable. Secondly, the charges seem way over the top for drilling out some broken studs & re-threading or installing thread inserts. I would expect any competent technician to have the ability & tools to carry out such a task without calling in a specialist. And 13 hours FFS. Unfortunatly, if he wont release the bike without payment you have little choice but to pay under protest and try to fight it later. I would try the polite and reasonable aproach first, as a potential return customer he should be fair with you. Hope you get the result your after. Ian.