Campag Super Record 11 vs Shimano Dura Ace Di2

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Comments

  • aracer
    aracer Posts: 1,649
    morxy wrote:
    Can you imagine Team Radio Shack geeks at the roadside of a TdF stage with signal jammers generating electronic "noise" to stop Contador changing gear at critical moments?! Guess there's always Bluetooth.
    Not sure what your point is regarding Bluetooth - that is of course also a radio signal which could be jammed if you so desired. Real geeks though wouldn't be doing anything so crude as jamming - no intellectual challenge in that. The cool thing to do would be to change gear for him ;)
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,680
    That'd be brilliant - put him in 53 x 11 as he hits the hairpins on Alpe D'Huez :lol:
  • ride_whenever
    ride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    does di2 have mechanical stops?

    Otherwise, a non standard packet asking it to shift into -1 on the back and straight into the rear spokes
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  • robthehungrymonkey
    robthehungrymonkey Posts: 616
    People suggesting there's no "real" benefit going electronic are missing the point. The same argument could be made for a low end groupset over a high end one.
    The point is if you can afford it, and can get somethign that you'd enjoy using do it!

    I'd go electronic. There will always be people saying wait, but it does look like shimano have done more testing than normal to iron out the bugs. The electronic shifting will be a massive change and something to get excited about. The SR groupset, though very nice isn't too different from what you've already got.

    The Nissan GTR vs Ferrari is relevant, but i'd turn it round. Every time you get in a ferrari there's a special-ness to it. It would be the same with electronic shifting especially if you have other bikes with traditional groupsets.
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  • Smokin Joe
    Smokin Joe Posts: 2,706
    In five years time electronic shifting will be commonplace on roadbikes. In ten years time most people will have it on their best bikes at least, and anyone racing with cables will be a rarity.

    I've been at this for over forty years, and without exception every new idea - clipless pedals, indexing, integrated shifters, extra sprockets, different frame materials etc etc - has been greeted with the cry of "What do we want that for, what we've got does the job, what if it breaks zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz".

    Bring on the electrics!
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Hear hear, Joe.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,680
    In five years time electronic shifting will be commonplace on roadbikes. In ten years time most people will have it on their best bikes at least, and anyone racing with cables will be a rarity.

    That's what people were saying 15 years or so back when Mavic introduced electronic shifting but that died a death and I think it is why I'm still sceptical on the pros v cons for Di. If it works reasonably flawlessly for the pros for a season or two then it will start to filter down but if there are any high profile problems they could finish it. That said there's a very good chance that an electronic system designed and built by the Japanese will be better than one produced by the French!
  • aracer
    aracer Posts: 1,649
    Smokin Joe wrote:
    I've been at this for over forty years, and without exception every new idea - clipless pedals, indexing, integrated shifters, extra sprockets, different frame materials etc etc - has been greeted with the cry of "What do we want that for, what we've got does the job, what if it breaks zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz".
    Some of the time they've been right though!

    Has anybody yet explained the real benefit of electric shifting (beyond being the blingiest highest end groupset, which could equally apply to SR11, or indeed Yumeya)? Exactly what will it add to my cycling experience? When I'm riding along getting nice shifts between the 17 and 19 sprockets wouldn't I rather be sitting there with SR11 not touching the shifters?
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Auto trimming is the killer app for me on Di2. If you don't want it, you don't buy it. I'll have it on my next bike though.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    aracer wrote:
    Smokin Joe wrote:
    I've been at this for over forty years, and without exception every new idea - clipless pedals, indexing, integrated shifters, extra sprockets, different frame materials etc etc - has been greeted with the cry of "What do we want that for, what we've got does the job, what if it breaks zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz".
    Some of the time they've been right though!

    Has anybody yet explained the real benefit of electric shifting (beyond being the blingiest highest end groupset, which could equally apply to SR11, or indeed Yumeya)? Exactly what will it add to my cycling experience? When I'm riding along getting nice shifts between the 17 and 19 sprockets wouldn't I rather be sitting there with SR11 not touching the shifters?

    I'm with SJ on this one. If you ask, what's the real benefit and what would it add to.....
    then you also have to ask what the REAL benefit is of things like carbon frames and parts, low spoke count wheels, power meters, GPS's, and a whole bunch of "STUFF"
    that is available for cycling. People on this forum talk like all the high end wheels were
    sent from the gods and that they make an enormous impact on your cycling. I don't really believe them but that's what they want to believe. That these things are better. And they are(only not to the degree that people claim). Electronic shifting is an improvement and it will get better as the years go by. As for the difference between 10 and 11 speed(i.e. 17 & 19 or 17, 18, & 19). That's nothing I care about. It's one tooth, suck it up and be a man :wink: .
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    Maybe Di2 is the next big thing, maybe not, but all these new things add up to better bikes over time. People might think 'enough is enough' now but they probably thought that in 1979 and who really wants to go back to toe straps,quill stems, downtube shifters etc?
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  • Smokin Joe
    Smokin Joe Posts: 2,706
    Pross wrote:
    In five years time electronic shifting will be commonplace on roadbikes. In ten years time most people will have it on their best bikes at least, and anyone racing with cables will be a rarity.

    That's what people were saying 15 years or so back when Mavic introduced electronic shifting but that died a death and I think it is why I'm still sceptical on the pros v cons for Di. If it works reasonably flawlessly for the pros for a season or two then it will start to filter down but if there are any high profile problems they could finish it. That said there's a very good chance that an electronic system designed and built by the Japanese will be better than one produced by the French!
    You're quite right about Mavic's electronic system, it was released while still under-developed. But Shimano's stationary bill probably exceeds mavic's annual turnover, and the Japanese know what they're doing when it comes to electronics and would not release it until they knew it was going to work.

    Whwn all's said and done, the average moped has far more complicated electrical systems onboard than a simple gearshift system on a bike and they seem to run all right.
  • onthefells
    onthefells Posts: 157
    shoot me down in flames if I am wrong but wasn't a certain Mr Wiggins riding Di2 in the World Champs time trial and it resulted in a very expensive bike being thrown on the floor :shock:
  • robthehungrymonkey
    robthehungrymonkey Posts: 616
    onthefells wrote:
    shoot me down in flames if I am wrong but wasn't a certain Mr Wiggins riding Di2 in the World Champs time trial and it resulted in a very expensive bike being thrown on the floor :shock:

    It was a slipped chain that caused the brakes to jam or something...

    But I think the consensus was that it could happen to any derailier setup.
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  • socrates
    socrates Posts: 453
    I read recently that Campag have shelved/scrapped their electronic version for the present. They reckon it is not a viable proposition in the present economic climate.
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    who really wants to go back to toe straps,quill stems, downtube shifters etc?

    Nowt wrong with toe straps or quill stems. I'll give you that STI type levers are an improvement.

    Lets be honest appart from fancy materials to provide lower weights and STI levers there is very little "innovation" that has changed how a road bike from the 60's compares to a 00's bike.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,335
    Electronic shifting... of course it's cool... but...

    What happens if the shifting loses accuracy? With the cable it's a 2 minutes job if you know what you're doing... with that... well, you need to go to your LBS, who probably needs to send the part to the manufacturer etc. etc...

    Also... I've seen the prototype and it's all cabled up... in my dreams all this would be wireless, but this would imply using a different battery for each component... as it is, with all the wiring, it doesn't look cool.

    Wouldn't be too worreid about the battery, apparently it lasts thousands of miles... and can be recharged... how many times have you been caught with no batter in your computer?

    It's the same upgrade form a carburettor to an electronic ignition... of course the latter is better, but you can't even open the bloody box or you lose the warranty... and I'm afraid this will be the case for Di2.

    So for me it's a yes for the idea, but a Not yet in practice...
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  • Smokin Joe
    Smokin Joe Posts: 2,706
    eh wrote:
    who really wants to go back to toe straps,quill stems, downtube shifters etc?

    Nowt wrong with toe straps or quill stems. I'll give you that STI type levers are an improvement.

    Lets be honest appart from fancy materials to provide lower weights and STI levers there is very little "innovation" that has changed how a road bike from the 60's compares to a 00's bike.
    Hmmm.

    3 kilos lighter, 10 extra gear ratios which can be changed with your hands on the bars and with a positive shift, superior brakes, headsets that can be fitted without a hammer, more secure pedal systems, better aerodynamics, stiffer frames and wheels, tyres that grip more securely and resist punctures much better.

    Quite a lot there.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,680
    Hmmm.

    3 kilos lighter, 10 extra gear ratios which can be changed with your hands on the bars and with a positive shift, superior brakes, headsets that can be fitted without a hammer, more secure pedal systems, better aerodynamics, stiffer frames and wheels, tyres that grip more securely and resist punctures much better.

    Quite a lot there.

    Yes, but other than that what have the Romans done for us? :lol:
  • ride_whenever
    ride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    i debate the headset and hammer thing, you can use a press for threaded headset and a hammer for a threadless one...
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  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    onthefells wrote:
    I for the life of me can't see why anyone would go electronic. What are you gonna do when it goes wrong...especially mid ride? you will be well and truly screwed unless of course you are some kind of electronics wizz.

    I can see it now....7 grands worth of bike marooned in the middle of the moors on some race/sportive being laughed at by everyone coming past on 500 quid bikes :shock:
    You would continue the ride with only front or rear shifting... like I had to do when my rear derailleur CABLE snapped early on in a 160km sportive. Far from the end of the world or leaving you "stranded." For the second climb which was a bit of a steep one I got it up to the 15T with the limit screws.

    Hardly a failure mode limited to electronic shifting.

    Personally if I was making this choice money no object I would definitely go Di2, but then I like and ride Shimano as it is. And I like to try new things. From what I have read it really is a significant change while Super Record will be no different to what you have now, just a bit lighter.

    If it was my own money though I think I would stick to cables and wait a while, it is just too expensive right now...

    AFAIK Super Record has no significant benefit over Record other than a minisule weight saving (<50g.) Most of the pros on Campagnolo seem to have to put up with plain old Record while only a few select team leaders get Super Record. I doubt it makes any difference. From what I read Chorus is also mechanically identical just very slightly heavier.

    @aracer- perfect shifts every time, quicker shifts and as dodgy says auto-trimming at the front.

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