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More ProTour licence news

iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
edited October 2009 in Pro race
Lampre and Milram get renewals

Cofidis and BBox don't.

No news on the Shack.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

Posts

  • Is it the case with Cofidis and BBox, that it's a case of more paperwork to be filled out, or is this decision final?
    Would be a major blow to French pride, if it is.
    Pat after anoyher battle with the ASO?

    The Shack is just McBrown Envelope marking time until it looks like he had to actually consider the application. :roll:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Is it the case with Cofidis and BBox, that it's a case of more paperwork to be filled out, or is this decision final?

    I'd suggest it's final. Why say they've not been awarded a licence if it's pending.

    Both teams only have sponsorship until the end of 2010, no?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • iainf72 wrote:
    Is it the case with Cofidis and BBox, that it's a case of more paperwork to be filled out, or is this decision final?

    I'd suggest it's final. Why say they've not been awarded a licence if it's pending.

    Both teams only have sponsorship until the end of 2010, no?

    That's probably it.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    UCI rules allow a maximum of 20 ProTour licenses, but are likely to give out fewer for the coming season. Cyclingnews reported earlier this week that three Professional Continental squads, Diquigiovanni, Cervélo TestTeam and Acqua e Sapone, would be guaranteed entry into the ProTour events by merit of their rankings in the World Rankings.
    Bouygues Telecom and Cofidis were the lowest-ranked ProTour squads in the UCI's world rankings this year at 19th and 20th, respectively, lower than the aforementioned Pro Continental teams.


    From cyclingnews
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Yes, because Milram only got the year....
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    edited September 2009
    iainf72 wrote:
    UCI rules allow a maximum of 20 ProTour licenses, but are likely to give out fewer for the coming season. Cyclingnews reported earlier this week that three Professional Continental squads, Diquigiovanni, Cervélo TestTeam and Acqua e Sapone, would be guaranteed entry into the ProTour events by merit of their rankings in the World Rankings.
    Bouygues Telecom and Cofidis were the lowest-ranked ProTour squads in the UCI's world rankings this year at 19th and 20th, respectively, lower than the aforementioned Pro Continental teams.


    From cyclingnews

    Wait a minute. Let me see if I can get my tiny little brain around this.

    Next year, three Pro Conti squads are guaranteed entry into Pro Tour races, based on their performance in the World Rankings (formerly known as the Pro Tour rankings).

    So, in essence, you can compete in the Pro Tour and earn Pro Tour points even if you don't have a Pro Tour license.

    Someone remind me again the point of having Pro Tour status?
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    No need for Cofidis and BBox to have a Pro Tour licence. You pay a lot for the licence but it doesn't give you much in return. Cofidis isn't going to struggle for a ride in July.
  • I would have thought BBox were feeling safer about July than Cofidis, after thier respective showings last July...
  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    I thought I heard a report a while back that Cofidis didn't want PT status renewed?
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  • drenkromdrenkrom Posts: 1,062
    Whatever backroom action is going on, this is a UCI license decision which actually seems to be based on sporting merit. There is no way those two teams, especially Cofidis, earned their place in the top rank of the sport, however little that seems to mean with the decision on the three Pro Conti squads. Bouygues are still in the Tour next year for sure and they're more interested in the Coupe de France than in most classics. I really don't care for Cofidis, my personal example of how to completely waste a nice budget.

    It's been a while since the UCI made a decision I thought was really good, but here it is. Quite a blow to French cycling, though.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,903
    Both teams have already been guaranteed their Tour spot for next year (according to L'Equipe)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • However, taking his criteria to the logical conclusion.
    New teams don't feature in any ranking system, so, without serving at least a year's probabtion, aquiring a ranking, they cannot qualify above these two teams and so aquire a PT licence, no?

    That would the football equivalent a new team, call it Midlands United, being formed and Portsmouth being booted out of the Premiership, so they could be fitted in.

    Which, is exactly what will happen in Radio Shack's case.

    Meanwhile, Pat McRulefree, will find another set of criteria to ensure Astana are culled, too.

    Which brings us all back to the reason d'etre behind the PT, that of the stabalisation of the pro team's infrastructure.

    Nice one, Mr P.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • BdeBBdeB Posts: 110
    If they are going to ride the Tour will they be taking soe of the limited wild card places and if so does this put the squeeze on Cervelo and other teams without protour licences?
  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    They won't be taking Wildcard slots, they have guaranteed entry to the TdF already
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  • knedlickyknedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Nobody has mentioned that the UCI decisions may have been influenced by personalities. I don’t think Bernadeau or Boyer were particularly popular in some circles, as too outspoken, even if the UCI has bent to their opinions about radios.

    I can’t imagine Bouygues are happy because they market under that name around the world. Cofidis are also international but use other names elsewhere. With the name Cofidis, they are primarily concerned with the French market, so shouldn't lose too much.

    Blazing Saddles analogy to football perhaps isn’t far out – it might be the way things develop, some sort of promotion/relegation system, if the financing of the promotion candidates is judged satisfactory by UCI. I actually think such could help the sport.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Fedrigo has said that his contract is no longer valid and he wants to leave BBox because they're not in the PT.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    The French teams have guaranteed entry into the Tour, so consequently they don't need to perform in the rest of the year. Because of the media mania in July, a few hours up the road in a suicide break in July will earn the team more publicity and TV airtime than a win in the Tour of Flanders or a Spanish stage race. The riders know this too, nobody in France will notice if they win a stage in the Giro but slipping into a doomed break can make them a household name. The French teams are quite inward looking, they don't recruit many outsiders and management methods are quite old fashioned.

    Cofidis is actually the most forward-looking team in France. They've got two full time coaches on the squad. Saxo, Astana, Caisse, Liquigas and other teams have none (dial 0800 p-r-e-p-a-r-a-t-o-r-e). This is paying off, the likes of Pauriol, El Fares and Tamaarae are young but getting some results. But the team has no interest in many foreign races, for example they skipped the Giro this year.

    Fedrigo could go, but where? Sky already has too many similar riders. I could see him at Caisse d'Epargne or Silence-Lotto.
  • The thing about Fedrigo is what races would he be missing by not being in the Pro Tour? Amstel Gold, San Sebastian? They'll be in the Tour and Plouay anyway, and are likely to be invited to Pais Vasco and Catalunya.

    To be fair to Marc Madiot too, I wouldn't call his management methods old fashioned, did you not see the article where he took his riders cyclo cross training during the winter? He's quite forward thinking in my eyes...

    Also, a small point of contention with Bouygues. Call me a nit picker but the cycling team is sponsored by the Bbox brand of Bouygues Telecom which is sold exclusively in France (it's a kind of mobile internet type dealy) and as far as I was aware anyway, the company only operated in France and perhaps DOM TOMs
  • simon_esimon_e Posts: 1,697
    Kléber wrote:
    Cofidis is actually the most forward-looking team in France. They've got two full time coaches on the squad. Saxo, Astana, Caisse, Liquigas and other teams have none
    Kléber, how do you know (and remember) this kind of stuff? I obviously don't spend enough time on forums or something. <shakes head>
    Is the presence of two coaches that significant? And if so, where are the results?

    And TTHR, can you expand on the new-fashioned-ness of Madiot's methods? I'm intrigued, and again wondering how you guys know all this stuff.
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
  • There was an article in Procycling at the start of the eyar which followed Madiot's training sessions, where he took his riders on a cyclo cross training day. They did threshold tests and the like. I rememberthis kinf of stuff 'cos I found it interesting at the time so rewad it a couple of times, juts one of those things really
  • iainf72 wrote:
    Fedrigo has said that his contract is no longer valid and he wants to leave BBox because they're not in the PT.

    Appears that Bbox Is not letting him go, as 'not having a PT Licence' is not a 'get out clause'.

    Does this apply to Bertie also? Or does he have a different sort of contract with Astana.
    If not, he is reliant on a buy-out.
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Simon E wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    Cofidis is actually the most forward-looking team in France. They've got two full time coaches on the squad. Saxo, Astana, Caisse, Liquigas and other teams have none
    Kléber, how do you know (and remember) this kind of stuff? I obviously don't spend enough time on forums or something. <shakes head>
    It's no secret. There was a good article on Cofidis in Velo Magazine early last year, I was in France for work and picked up a copy to read on a train journey. Their coach is a guy called Vincent Vilerius, a Dutchman and if you want real trivia, I think he studied under a coach called Frederic Grappe... who is the FDJ team coach.
    There was an article in Procycling at the start of the eyar which followed Madiot's training sessions, where he took his riders on a cyclo cross training day. They did threshold tests and the like. I rememberthis kinf of stuff 'cos I found it interesting at the time so rewad it a couple of times, juts one of those things really
    FDJ have their own coach in Frederic Grappe and he helps some of the riders use SRMs. But they have to buy these power measurement tools themselves!

    As for cyclo-cross, farting around in a field isn't a sign of modern training, it's a throwback to the old ways. Madiot's training plans are very much "this worked for me, so it'll work for you lad". Nothing wrong with cyclo-cross but it's not an essential thing. Grappe only coaches a few riders on the team, far too many riders are left to train by themselves, maybe repeating some sessions that seemed to work the last year.

    I can't see how a pro team could be run like this, such big budgets but no structured training. Surely all teams should have proper coaching staff on board. You don't see Premiership football teams saying "ok lads, see you next Saturday" and leaving the players to practice alone...
  • ms_treems_tree Posts: 1,405
    Also, a small point of contention with Bouygues. Call me a nit picker but the cycling team is sponsored by the Bbox brand of Bouygues Telecom which is sold exclusively in France (it's a kind of mobile internet type dealy) and as far as I was aware anyway, the company only operated in France and perhaps DOM TOMs

    I thought that too until I recently accompanied my father to a hospital appointment near Chelmsford and there was building being done there with the name Bouyges prominently displayed.
    'Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one.'
    Neil Gaiman
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,903
    Kléber wrote:
    As for cyclo-cross, farting around in a field isn't a sign of modern training, it's a throwback to the old ways. Madiot's training plans are very much "this worked for me, so it'll work for you lad". Nothing wrong with cyclo-cross but it's not an essential thing. Grappe only coaches a few riders on the team, far too many riders are left to train by themselves, maybe repeating some sessions that seemed to work the last year.

    I can't see how a pro team could be run like this, such big budgets but no structured training. Surely all teams should have proper coaching staff on board. You don't see Premiership football teams saying "ok lads, see you next Saturday" and leaving the players to practice alone...


    Agreed, cyclo-cross is old hat. I remember an interview with LeMond saying Guimard encouraged it, so it's at least 25 years old as an idea.

    Agreed on the second bit as well. Cycling must be the only team sport run in this way (of course, they don't have a home ground). I remember that Vaughters wanted to base all of Garmin in Girona, but it doesn't seem to have happened, although most of them are there. I reckon Sky may try it after the success of central training in Manchester. I'm certain they'll see more of each other than most teams.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • edhornbyedhornby Posts: 1,780
    aren't sky going to have the road base in italy and the admin in manchester???
    "I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
    --Jens Voight
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,903
    edhornby wrote:
    aren't sky going to have the road base in italy and the admin in manchester???

    I'm not sure. Admin in Manchester, obviously, I would think. But I heard they are going to be based in Belgium. Quantara (sp?) in Tuscany would seem more sensible with the development squad, plus several British pros, being based there.

    Brailsford & Sunderland know much more than me though.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Ms Tree wrote:
    Also, a small point of contention with Bouygues. Call me a nit picker but the cycling team is sponsored by the Bbox brand of Bouygues Telecom which is sold exclusively in France (it's a kind of mobile internet type dealy) and as far as I was aware anyway, the company only operated in France and perhaps DOM TOMs

    I thought that too until I recently accompanied my father to a hospital appointment near Chelmsford and there was building being done there with the name Bouyges prominently displayed.

    I stand corrected :)

    My god, they're gonna take over the world! I had my first ever argument in French with one of their minions because they were charging too much for my phone bills.
  • FJSFJS Posts: 4,820
    RichN95 wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    As for cyclo-cross, farting around in a field isn't a sign of modern training, it's a throwback to the old ways. Madiot's training plans are very much "this worked for me, so it'll work for you lad". Nothing wrong with cyclo-cross but it's not an essential thing. Grappe only coaches a few riders on the team, far too many riders are left to train by themselves, maybe repeating some sessions that seemed to work the last year.

    I can't see how a pro team could be run like this, such big budgets but no structured training. Surely all teams should have proper coaching staff on board. You don't see Premiership football teams saying "ok lads, see you next Saturday" and leaving the players to practice alone...


    Agreed, cyclo-cross is old hat. I remember an interview with LeMond saying Guimard encouraged it, so it's at least 25 years old as an idea.
    .

    Roger de Vlaeminck was top at both in the 70s. I remember reading a Dutch cycling training instruction book from the 60s that suggested doing cyclo-cross as winter training for roadies. In the low countries it's always been there.
    Maybe maiking it a team building excerise was the 'innovative' in what Madiot did.
  • ms_treems_tree Posts: 1,405
    Ms Tree wrote:
    Also, a small point of contention with Bouygues. Call me a nit picker but the cycling team is sponsored by the Bbox brand of Bouygues Telecom which is sold exclusively in France (it's a kind of mobile internet type dealy) and as far as I was aware anyway, the company only operated in France and perhaps DOM TOMs

    I thought that too until I recently accompanied my father to a hospital appointment near Chelmsford and there was building being done there with the name Bouyges prominently displayed.

    I stand corrected :)

    My god, they're gonna take over the world! I had my first ever argument in French with one of their minions because they were charging too much for my phone bills.
    Well,I could be wrong but you know how something you know a bit about catches the eyr. Maye they were using their phones!
    'Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one.'
    Neil Gaiman
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