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No more Olympic pursuit?

KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
edited September 2009 in Pro race
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... mpics.html

The UCI has rightly been told to award an equal number of medals on the track to men and women.
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  • andypandyp Posts: 8,846
    I absolutely agree that their should be equality on the track, but I'm saddened to see yet more classic track disciplines be removed following on from the kilo. The pursuit and the points race are proper track disciplines and replacing them with an omnium just doesn't do it for me.

    I know it's to do with the number of events they can include, so why can't they drop the road time trials, which are about as exciting as watching paint dry?
  • I would like to see the team sprint and keiren go, with the kilo being reintroduced and the pursuit retained. Also, let's have true equality by getting rid of the women's 500m, which is another non-event, replacing this with the full kilo.
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 7,960
    It should be noted that these events are to be dropped from the Olympics only - they will still continue on in the World Championships and World Cup races.
  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Why can there only be 18 cycling events, whereas "swimming" is allowed 46?

    If a velodrome is built at great expense, why only allow 14 track events? Seems silly to me.
    I like bikes...

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  • edhornbyedhornby Posts: 1,780
    upside is that you get parity between mens and womens disciplines, although losing the points race and madison is a shame

    and to be honest, the individual pursuit is no more or less interesting than the road TT - so if you binned the road TT you'd have the pro TTers on the track - actually Spartacus vs Brad vs Bertie on fixed, could be interesting :)
    "I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
    --Jens Voight
  • Potentially great news, as far as I'm concerned. Well pleased.:D
    Still, as pointed out, compared to swimming, which has endless oportunities, it is amazing that we have to rob Peter, to pay.........Paulette.

    I like this write up, especially the bit about Vicky P's opposition.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... -gold.html
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Hmm, the points race, the scratch race and madison are the only track events I find even vaguely interesting. Oh well.
  • Potentially great news, as far as I'm concerned. Well pleased.:D
    Still, as pointed out, compared to swimming, which has endless oportunities, it is amazing that we have to rob Peter, to pay.........Paulette.

    I like this write up, especially the bit about Vicky P's opposition.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... -gold.html
    I never suspected you of actually being a girl !!
    .. who said that, internet forum people ?
  • why is there a limit to events anyway
    "you tried your best and failed miserably. the lesson is never to try"
  • afx237vi wrote:
    Hmm, the points race, the scratch race and madison are the only track events I find even vaguely interesting. Oh well.

    Same here, points race is my favourite track event by some way. Think BC could be happy though (even with the loss of IP), as those are events we've been less successful at because they're not so predictable or quantifiable in terms of training and preparation.
  • rockmount wrote:
    Potentially great news, as far as I'm concerned. Well pleased.:D
    Still, as pointed out, compared to swimming, which has endless oportunities, it is amazing that we have to rob Peter, to pay.........Paulette.

    I like this write up, especially the bit about Vicky P's opposition.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... -gold.html
    I never suspected you of actually being a girl !!

    OOooooh, you are awful........but I like you! :lol:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • I wonder if 'female' events like synchronised swimming and that thing where the girls run around with streamers will have to cut the number of medals awarded in order to give parity to newly established male competitions?

    The whole 'parity' thing is a joke in any case given that the criteria for the inclusion of a 'male' event in the Olympics is much more stringent than that for 'female' events. So, if men and women competitors were to be treated equally, the effect would be to drastically reduce the number of female competitions. It all sounds a lot like 'positive discrimination' in action. (Which of course is a weasel term used to justify plain old discrimination!).


    Criteria for Inclusion

    To be added to the Summer Olympics, a sport or discipline must be widely practised by men in at least 75 countries on four continents and by women in at least 40 countries on three continents. To be added to the Winter Olympics, it must be widely practised in at least 25 countries on three continents.

    A sport or discipline is added to the Olympic program at least seven years before the Olympic Games for which it is to be added.

    To be included in the Olympics, an event must be practised by men in at least 50 countries on three continents and by women in at least 35 countries on three continents. In addition, it must have been included at least twice in world or continental championships. An event is added to the Olympic program four years in advance of the Olympic games for which it is to be first included.


    http://www.hickoksports.com/history/olsports.shtml
  • DghDgh Posts: 180
    The Olympics should represent the pinnacle in sport. In men's road events, they don't. Why not drop the men's road events?

    I'm in favour of equality on the track, would love to see women's keirin, team pursuit etc. (team sprint with 3 instead of 2 would be good too). If something's gonna go, why not the madison?

    Not too sure about freetyle bmx - love watching it, but would prefer to see downhill & 4x - races, not subjectively judged!
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    I'd still keep the road race, it is a special event that can "visit" the landmarks of the host city, it's one of the few events not to take place inside a white elephant building.

    Can't see the point of having the sprint, team sprint and keirin. They tend to reward the same rider each time. I'd scrap the team sprint and keirin, but possibly re-introduce the kilo.

    But so many of these disciplines are circus events, designed to entertain drunken Belgians during a winter's evening. Try explaining the madison - a condensed 6-day - to a stranger, they'll laugh. The Keirin is bizarre, riders lining up behind a fat scooter. As for the Omnium, it's not really the Pentathlon/Decathlon, it's rewarding very similar skills.

    The Klébolympics, five events, male & female:

    1. Sprint
    2. Kilo
    3. 4000m pursuit
    4. Team pursuit, 4000m
    5. Points Race

    I'd make the distances equal, men and women do 4000m pursuit and the kilo.
  • Aaaargh, no, got to have the keiran and the team sprint!
    More chances for this sort of thing.
    Rainbow+2+001.JPG

    Should reintroduce the men's kilo, though. That's a definite.
    It was either it, or the men's road ITT.
    Now....there's an option.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Too many medals!

    I know swimming is worse, there's next to no difference between the 50m,100m and 200m efforts, all are above-threshold stuff. And then they don't just reward the fastest swimmer in the world over a fixed distance, they have medals for each difference stroke! That's like having seperate hopping and skipping races in athletics, alongside the running.

    I think the Olympic TT is a bit of a bore too. But since each sport seems to have all sorts of weird disciplines (eg different medals for throwing a disc, a spear and a hammer), cycling should be pushing for more medals, even if it means having the cycling version of an egg-and-spoon race.
  • DghDgh Posts: 180
    Keirin shouldn't be scrapped. Sprint is about acceleration from a slow speed, Keirin is about accelerating from a high speed. Sprint is 1 on 1, Keirin more of a bunch.

    Agree about bringing back the kilo, and equalising the distances.

    If we're gonna lose track events, madison should go and am not convinced about team sprint.
  • top_bhoytop_bhoy Posts: 1,424
    I can't see why track cycling has to lose any events...its not as if a swimming, athletic, basketball event needs the velodrome to stage it and if TV is the issue - the volleyball, badminton, hockey et al, takes place for the duration of a games. Wheres the difference?
  • The Keirin is just a race for drunken Japs to bet on.
    How on earth does/did it reach these criteria?
    "widely practised by men in at least 75 countries on four continents"
    The pursuit's a true "Blue Ribband" event, if anything needs binning to make space for the extra women's races, then chuck the Omnium, that'll free up space for the kilo to come back too!
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • The Keirin is just a race for drunken Japs to bet on.
    The reason the Keirin is in the Olympics is all to do with the huge bung that the UCI accepted from the people who organise the events in Japan...

    Cycling cash linked to Olympics
    By Matt McGrath
    BBC News


    A BBC investigation has raised concerns that a cycling event may have bought its way into the Olympic Games. Documents given to the BBC suggest that $3m (£1.5m) was paid by organisers of a Japanese cycling event to the UCI - the world cycling body. The payments were allegedly made in the 1990s. The event, called the keirin, was supported for inclusion into the Games by the UCI, and admitted in 1996.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7525072.stm

    See also:

    http://www.thetakeaway.org/stories/2008 ... -olympics/
  • FOADFOAD Posts: 318
    Why can there only be 18 cycling events, whereas "swimming" is allowed 46?

    And which 46 would they be as I think you are way off!

    50,100,200,400 Freestyle both sexes. 8 races total.

    1500 Free Men/800 for Women. 2 races.

    100 and 200 on Fly, Back, Breast both sexes. 6 total.

    200 and 400 IM both sexes. 4 races.

    4x100 FS and Medley relays both sexes. 4 races.

    4 x 200 relay both sexes. 2 races.

    10,000 metres open water both sexes. 2 races.

    28 races (thought forgive me if I missed a couple). Athletics probably has more.

    Now BMX..that's a wicked Olympic Sport FFS.
  • FOAD wrote:
    Why can there only be 18 cycling events, whereas "swimming" is allowed 46?

    And which 46 would they be as I think you are way off!

    50,100,200,400 Freestyle both sexes. 8 races total.

    1500 Free Men/800 for Women. 2 races.

    100 and 200 on Fly, Back, Breast both sexes. 6 total.

    200 and 400 IM both sexes. 4 races.

    4x100 FS and Medley relays both sexes. 4 races.

    4 x 200 relay both sexes. 2 races.

    10,000 metres open water both sexes. 2 races.

    28 races (thought forgive me if I missed a couple). Athletics probably has more.

    Now BMX..that's a wicked Olympic Sport FFS.

    Your

    "100 and 200 on Fly, Back, Breast both sexes. 6 total."

    should be 12 races so that takes it up to 34.
  • FOADFOAD Posts: 318
    FOAD wrote:
    Why can there only be 18 cycling events, whereas "swimming" is allowed 46?

    And which 46 would they be as I think you are way off!

    50,100,200,400 Freestyle both sexes. 8 races total.

    1500 Free Men/800 for Women. 2 races.

    100 and 200 on Fly, Back, Breast both sexes. 6 total.

    200 and 400 IM both sexes. 4 races.

    4x100 FS and Medley relays both sexes. 4 races.

    4 x 200 relay both sexes. 2 races.

    10,000 metres open water both sexes. 2 races.

    28 races (thought forgive me if I missed a couple). Athletics probably has more.

    Now BMX..that's a wicked Olympic Sport FFS.

    Your

    "100 and 200 on Fly, Back, Breast both sexes. 6 total."

    should be 12 races so that takes it up to 34.

    'tis true.

    Looking forward to the other "holes" in my maths to make it 46. :lol:
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,878
    FOAD wrote:
    'tis true.

    Looking forward to the other "holes" in my maths to make it 46. :lol:

    He should have said 'aquatics' rather than swimming on it's own. Swimming's governing body FINA also control diving, synchronized swiiming and water polo - which brings it up to 46.

    Kind of like the UCI having road, track, MTB and BMX.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95 wrote:
    He should have said 'aquatics' rather than swimming on it's own. Swimming's governing body FINA also control diving, synchronized swiiming and water polo - which brings it up to 46.
    So, if there are equal numbers of men's and women's events in the swimming, diving and water polo, does this mean, including synchronised swimming, there are actually more female 'aquatic' events than there are men's? If so, why no call for 'parity' here as well?
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    BB, because no self-respecting bloke would ever try syncronised swimming!

    Seriously, why are there so many swimming medals for different strokes? Why not just award a medal to the fastest over the distance regardless of style? Or maybe FINA could push for new medals in "doggy paddle" and swimming with armbands too?
  • FOADFOAD Posts: 318
    edited September 2009
    Kléber wrote:
    BB, because no self-respecting bloke would ever try syncronised swimming!

    Seriously, why are there so many swimming medals for different strokes? Why not just award a medal to the fastest over the distance regardless of style? Or maybe FINA could push for new medals in "doggy paddle" and swimming with armbands too?

    So all blokes who do ballet are "puffs"? I know several water polo players who train with synchro swimmers (mainly because of the amount of totty I reckon but it could be to strengthen their legs) and I am sure if there were men's synchro there would be plenty of guys that would like to do it.

    Why don't they just have medals for the fastest over a distance regardless of style? That's just daft, we may as well combine mountain biking and road cycling plus unicycling and tandems etc.

    In every other major swimming calendar event there are even more events (all the 50's instead of just FS, open water 5,000 etc) so they really ought to be adding stuff not taking it away.

    Clearly they have it wrong with cycling, but moaning about other sports isn't the way to go surely?
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    err, I didn't say anything about ballet. But there clearly aren't enough men taking part in syncronised swimming for it to be an Olympic event right now. I feel sorry for SS but it is always the brunt of jokes?
  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    FOAD wrote:
    Why can there only be 18 cycling events, whereas "swimming" is allowed 46?

    And which 46 would they be as I think you are way off!

    50,100,200,400 Freestyle both sexes. 8 races total.

    1500 Free Men/800 for Women. 2 races.

    100 and 200 on Fly, Back, Breast both sexes. 6 total.

    200 and 400 IM both sexes. 4 races.

    4x100 FS and Medley relays both sexes. 4 races.

    4 x 200 relay both sexes. 2 races.

    10,000 metres open water both sexes. 2 races.

    28 races (thought forgive me if I missed a couple). Athletics probably has more.

    Now BMX..that's a wicked Olympic Sport FFS.

    If you read what you quoted, I actually said "swimming" and not swimming.
    I like bikes...

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  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 7,960
    Kléber wrote:
    Why not just award a medal to the fastest over the distance regardless of style?

    Erm - they DO that. It's called "freestyle".
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