Riding loose rocky trails

stubs

I have a friend who is absolutely rubbish at riding down trails with big rocky loose boulders that want to grab his front wheel and tip him over the bars. He usually just drops the saddle hangs over the back wheel, points the bike down and hangs on for dear life hoping he gets to the bottom rubber side down.

Is there any other techniques I could use I mean he could use that will get him to the bottom without feeling sick.

supersonic

What bike does he have?

stubs

Its a remarkable coincedence he has exactly the same bike as me a Commencal Super 4

dave_hill

Relax.

Light but firm grip on the bars.

Look where you're going and well ahead too.

Don't fixate on things you want to avoid or you WILL hit them.

At risk of a tongue-lashing from SuperSonic (oo-er :shock: !!), lay off the front brake - if the wheel is being braked and it hits an object which it can't roll over it will stop - and catapult you over the bars.

Practice.

Da Mighty Chicken

Does your friend also love fig rolls?

supersonic

Maybe he needs a bike with a bit more travel at the front ie a slacker head angle? Or higher bars to give him more confidence?

stubs

Da Mighty Chicken wrote:

Does your friend also love fig rolls?

Okay youve rumbled me :x its me suffering from squeaky bum

Its one particular piece of trail thats twisting my nuts. Its the rocky loose track that drops and twists from the Pigeon tower at Rivington down to the Lower Hall car park (thats what I think its called the one with the van that sells tea and ice cream). I have come off twice recently and lost blood and flesh and now when we approach it I can feel my guts rumbling. Its not a big route probably someone will come on and say they do it on a unicycle whilst juggling a chainsaw but its doing my head in and is starting to ruin my ride.

stubs

supersonic wrote:

Maybe he needs a bike with a bit more travel at the front ie a slacker head angle? Or higher bars to give him more confidence?

You could be right I have thought of taking out the spacer from the Rebas to give me 120mm travel but I love the handling as it is and I dont want to spoil it. It climbs well and I have always preferred a low front end.

supersonic

stubs wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Maybe he needs a bike with a bit more travel at the front ie a slacker head angle? Or higher bars to give him more confidence?

You could be right I have thought of taking out the spacer from the Rebas to give me 120mm travel but I love the handling as it is and I dont want to spoil it. It climbs well and I have always preferred a low front end.

Maybe that is the trade off you will have to make.

But of course more practice and getting used to that section will pay dividends.

mac_man

stubs wrote:

I have a friend who is absolutely rubbish at riding down trails with big rocky loose boulders that want to grab his front wheel and tip him over the bars. He usually just drops the saddle hangs over the back wheel, points the bike down and hangs on for dear life hoping he gets to the bottom rubber side down.

Is there any other techniques I could use I mean he could use that will get him to the bottom without feeling sick.

Try a skills day... could be a major boost to your confidence and technique

Whytepeak

stubs wrote:

Da Mighty Chicken wrote:

Does your friend also love fig rolls?

Okay youve rumbled me :x its me suffering from squeaky bum

Its one particular piece of trail thats twisting my nuts. Its the rocky loose track that drops and twists from the Pigeon tower at Rivington down to the Lower Hall car park (thats what I think its called the one with the van that sells tea and ice cream). I have come off twice recently and lost blood and flesh and now when we approach it I can feel my guts rumbling. Its not a big route probably someone will come on and say they do it on a unicycle whilst juggling a chainsaw but its doing my head in and is starting to ruin my ride.

I love that decent. But some bits are very rocky, and it can be hard to find a line, but it is all 'do able'.

Try experimenting with lines, as a faily smooth one can be found. Also, the random tarmac sections can be rolled off (or dropped), so no problems there.

It isn't that steep, so I can see no reason for braking so harshly that it sends you over the bars, there are some smooth sections, where you can brake safely and efficiently.

In rocky sections, always remember to stay off the brakes - this will allow the bike's suspention to work efficiently, and you will be able to get your weight slightly further back.

That said, it isn't a steep decent - so try to keep your weight central.

Hope this helps.

stubs

Front brake! I wouldnt touch the front brake on that track if you paid me. I am coming off on the turns it just seems whichever line I take I end up bouncing off the bank. Maybe I have my weight too far back and I cant get the front wheel to grip and steer.

When my knee stops dripping blood I will go back and have another go. Might nip up there wednesday if weather OK. If you see a white faced white knuckled fat bloke on a black Commie 4 that will be me.

RealMan

supersonic wrote:

Maybe he needs a bike with a bit more travel at the front ie a slacker head angle? Or higher bars to give him more confidence?

Lacking bike handling skills? Bike obviously isn't good enough.

:roll:


Relax. Take it at a speed you're comfortable with. Don't think about it. Don't think about falling off. Don't think about how you've done so far. Just concentrate on what's coming up. When you get to the bottom, go back to the top, and take it at the speed you're comfortable with, +10%.

Rinse and repeat as required. Then stop taking the easy lines, and take the hardest lines you can find.

When turning, put your weight forward. You need your weight over the front to grip the corner. Not quite sure what the proper technique is on a full sus, but I tend to ride the fork a lot on my HT. Cant see why it wouldn't work on a FS. So just put your weight as forward as you dare, and then lean into the corner.

supersonic

I didn't say that! I said making some changes could help!

And you conveniantly did not quote what else I said:

"But of course more practice and getting used to that section will pay dividends"

dave_hill

stubs wrote:

When my knee stops dripping blood I will go back and have another go. Might nip up there wednesday if weather OK.

Knee protection might be worth considering - it's amazing how much more confidence it will give you.

turpinr

stubs wrote:

Da Mighty Chicken wrote:

Does your friend also love fig rolls?

Okay youve rumbled me :x its me suffering from squeaky bum

Its one particular piece of trail thats twisting my nuts. Its the rocky loose track that drops and twists from the Pigeon tower at Rivington down to the Lower Hall car park (thats what I think its called the one with the van that sells tea and ice cream). I have come off twice recently and lost blood and flesh and now when we approach it I can feel my guts rumbling. Its not a big route probably someone will come on and say they do it on a unicycle whilst juggling a chainsaw but its doing my head in and is starting to ruin my ride.

i saw 2 lads coming down there yesterday.the 1st one looked like he was floating down on his santa cruz full susser,the second one on a cannondale hardtail took the more leisurely,careful approach.i looked at all those rocks and was glad i was out walking.
i like riding up there but i've only been down twice and didn't enjoy it one bit.

stubs

Well I went back to Rivi drank a large can of MTFU and had a go.

Managed 3 goes with just a few dabs.

Then did the fatal just one more go before I go home thank god for knee pads and gloves.

bomberesque

stubs wrote:

He usually just drops the saddle hangs over the back wheel, points the bike down and hangs on for dear life hoping he gets to the bottom rubber side down..

sounds about right to me certainly better than getting off and walking, which is what a lot of folks I know would do in the same situation

how much brake is he grabbing? Commencal super 4 is 100mm FS bike is it? A lot of folks who come to FS from HT or rigid riding (like me) tend to favour the front brake too much at first, which makes the bike buck and the angles feel steeper. Normally not a problem on a 4" bike but maybe part of the story (how soft is his sus set-up?).

Other than that;

• saddle *right* down
• weight low and off the back but not to the point of pulling on the bars.
• eyes ahead (3-4m). Look where you want to go, trust the bike to go where you point it. This IMO is one of the hardest things to get right in mtb'ing. It's quite "engaging" to practice this by riding through straight and narrow but shallow (so you can still pedal) gullies, the concentration required is quite amazing, tunnel vision has been known
• control but don't kill speed. over the loose stuff a bit of speed is often your friend. One of the first obstacles that new riders often need to get across is to ride quick enough to have control

also check tyre and sus setup. Badly set up damping can make the bike buck and lose traction, as can overhigh tyre pressure. Tyre choice, obviously, can play a part in all of this aswell.

and then practice.... Takes some folk longer than others and some folk never get there, but only if they believe they won't. Sounds like your mate is at least willing to ride these trails, which is more than many.

joshtp

obviously try and find the smoothest line, but one of the most important things you can do is just to stay loose, let the bike move around under you, dont fight the bike, guide it. and stay relaxed. also the faster you go the smootherr it will be, youl skip over the tops of the bumps and be alot smoother.

projectsome

just practise going down something like this.



those boulders will seem like childs play

steelo

I'd agree with the 'take it at a slower pace to start with' advice. The super 4 isn't a downhill bike so if you are trying to ride it like one then that may be why you are coming off. I see a super 4 as a smooth trail bike that will suck up big roots but not necessarily boulder fields at speed. But any bike should handle most terrain at one speed or another, just find the right speed.