The PCSOs role in combatting bad cyclists?

downfader

I've just watched Dispatches through the 4od site. It was on last night and I do feel sorry for them tbh, the public want coppers and the public aint gettin them.. they cant win in someways.

However.. a thought entered my mind, a team of PCSOs and perhaps one or two Constables could be used in trouble spots to deal with the antisocial cycling that often plagues the debates here.Its something I never see tackled here in that way, and I think the public need to see bad cycling tackled.

I know their powers vary from place to place. What do you all think of this? Would it stop pedallestrians and RLJs? Does the FPN need to be increased to £60 before its taken more seriously?

(If we could steer clear from the rights and wrongs of the offence and discuss the measures as a way of making cycling more reputable - I know, fat chance - but seriously it might work)

pastryboy

I sometimes see PCSO's travelling in pairs on bikes on a canal path - I have no idea what they're there for (other than overtaking) but I assume it's to do with making sure pedestrians and cyclists can co-exist on the route so maybe they already do what you're suggesting to a degree.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Meh. I think for an awful ot of people, PCSOs = Parkkeepers out on a jolly.

If you put police on a junction to catch RLJ'ers, it's like running a fully painted motorway patrol car in the inside lane at 69mph. Everyone becomes super-law abiding. Until they're out of sight.

Personally, I think the "use law enforcement as a revenue raiser" has rather outstayed its welcome, doesn't change behaviour, and breeds resentment. What might work is a couple of cops at a junction, out of sight, ready to pull over RLJ'ers and do nothing more than detain them for a 10 min talking to. Often, the feeling that you've come really close to being "done", but have been given a reprieve can be more effective at changing behaviour than the simple nab & punish (which engenders an attitude of "I got caught this time, but I'll keep playing the percentages"). There's something in Freakonomics about it, IIRC.

Oddjob62

Greg66 wrote:

If you put police on a junction to catch RLJ'ers, it's like running a fully painted motorway patrol car in the inside lane at 69mph. Everyone becomes super-law abiding. Until they're out of sight.

That's not the case. See my previous post about RLJ catchers at Regents Park. 1 PCSO and 2 Full timers in plain view at a junction, every time i rode past they had caught someone new.

Greg T

Oddjob62 wrote:

That's not the case. See my previous post about RLJ catchers at Regents Park. 1 PCSO and 2 Full timers in plain view at a junction, every time i rode past they had caught someone new.

Tasers.

I'd pay to watch.

Monkeypump

Didn't see the show, but is that really the best use we can make of them?

TheBrogueadier

Last year they had a big drive with PSCO's and PO's lurking around on junctions in Bristol..

Caught quite a few RLJers, though the stats were quite amusing (94% not RLJing on the second time, yet the paper still went with the 'Cyclists still jumping lights' headline..)

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Pol ... ticle.html

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Bri ... ticle.html

georgee

I always wonder about if them or coppers could do much to stop a cyclist. personally at £60 a fine, you could easily do 4 an hour so covering the costs.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

On my way home yesterday (after a crazy hike with bike along the nasty banking between the end of Quayside Road by Northam Bridege and Hazel Road in Woolston), I free-wheeled through the underpass to the east of the Bitterne precinct...

Got to the leisure centre side to find a teenage lad on a bike surrounded by three or maybe even four police/PSCOs!

Having just technically cycled through the underpass (as I always do, with care I might add) where cyclist should dismount, I sheepishly avoided their "party" and cycled up the leisure centre car park, instead of my normal route up the path that links to the very end of Dean Road.

The point of this babble? The experience made me wonder if the lad had been stopped for cycling on paths and the underpass, plus whether I should rethink my actions in that area...

On a sidenote, Downfader, do you know anything about the "cyclist down" incident on Tuesday near the bottom of Highfield Lane?

downfader

NitrousOxide wrote:

On my way home yesterday (after a crazy hike with bike along the nasty banking between the end of Quayside Road by Northam Bridege and Hazel Road in Woolston), I free-wheeled through the underpass to the east of the Bitterne precinct...

Got to the leisure centre side to find a teenage lad on a bike surrounded by three or maybe even four police/PSCOs!

Having just technically cycled through the underpass (as I always do, with care I might add) where cyclist should dismount, I sheepishly avoided their "party" and cycled up the leisure centre car park, instead of my normal route up the path that links to the very end of Dean Road.

The point of this babble? The experience made me wonder if the lad had been stopped for cycling on paths and the underpass, plus whether I should rethink my actions in that area...

On a sidenote, Downfader, do you know anything about the "cyclist down" incident on Tuesday near the bottom of Highfield Lane?

People get stopped on the underpass there quite regularly.. A lady with a pram nearly got hit iirc some years back and it was in one of the papers. But that was just kids tbh, I often see grannies riding through there.

Highfield Lane..? No 'fraid not. Its one of my usual routes but I've been off this week. side, sidenote: Its also ridden by a lot of students - didnt happen at night did it? I have said to one or two of them before that they need to get some lights sorted, the foreign students just dont seem to get the danger of those drivers flying off the avenue etc.

Hope whoever it was is ok.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Another time, I cycled (slowly) through that same underpass and passed a couple of PSCOs/POs coming the other direction, they didn't bat an eyelid. Perhaps it was in my favour that I don't zoom along there at road speed, or maybe they were hypnotised by fluorescent orange frame

The incident happened around 1700, my mother-in-law saw the cyclist perched on the pavement as she left work. She mentioned a van and the emergency services being somewhere near Cino's...

Headhuunter

How about instead of victimising cyclists and the "oh so awful" RLJ-er, PCSOs actually *gasp* enforce cycle lanes and ASL boxes having a word or fining stupid motorists and motorcyclist who block them?

As a cyclist I am more concerned about this than other cyclists RLJ-ing, even though some people on here for some reason seem to view RLJ-ing as the ultimate sin which shuold be punishable by instant banishment to Hades dragged behind the four horseman of the apocalypse....

Dudu

downfader wrote:

a team of PCSOs and perhaps one or two Constables could be used in trouble spots to deal with the antisocial cycling that often plagues the debates here

Hmmm... They'd better know their traffic law first.

The only time I've ever been stopped cycling anywhere was when a PCSO tried to stop me riding along a (closed) street market from which cars have been banned. He didn't seem to know what a blue sign bearing pictures of a pedestrian and a bicycle in white, with a white border, meant.

downfader

Dudu wrote:

downfader wrote:

a team of PCSOs and perhaps one or two Constables could be used in trouble spots to deal with the antisocial cycling that often plagues the debates here

Hmmm... They'd better know their traffic law first.

The only time I've ever been stopped cycling anywhere was when a PCSO tried to stop me riding along a (closed) street market from which cars have been banned. He didn't seem to know what a blue sign bearing pictures of a pedestrian and a bicycle in white, with a white border, meant.

Did you take his details and report him for an educational chat?

il_principe

The pointless plod don't have the powers to deal with RLJ, I actually asked two moped ones about this the other day when a cyclist RLJ'ed in front of them. "Nothing we can do," the slightly fatter one said. I think they can do something about pavement riding but they have v v limited powers.

OldSkoolKona

Headhuunter wrote:

How about instead of victimising cyclists and the "oh so awful" RLJ-er, PCSOs actually *gasp* enforce cycle lanes and ASL boxes having a word or fining stupid motorists and motorcyclist who block them?

As a cyclist I am more concerned about this than other cyclists RLJ-ing, even though some people on here for some reason seem to view RLJ-ing as the ultimate sin which shuold be punishable by instant banishment to Hades dragged behind the four horseman of the apocalypse....

Or drivers using mobile phones, the number you see using them are shocking :-(

Headhuunter

OldSkoolKona wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

How about instead of victimising cyclists and the "oh so awful" RLJ-er, PCSOs actually *gasp* enforce cycle lanes and ASL boxes having a word or fining stupid motorists and motorcyclist who block them?

As a cyclist I am more concerned about this than other cyclists RLJ-ing, even though some people on here for some reason seem to view RLJ-ing as the ultimate sin which shuold be punishable by instant banishment to Hades dragged behind the four horseman of the apocalypse....

Or drivers using mobile phones, the number you see using them are shocking :-(

Or even helping to raise pedestrian awareness of cyclists. For example do not cross the road without looking/whilst texting/checking your Blackberry/looking for something in your handbag/looking the other way/having a chinwag withn a friend or colleague etc etc etc. Just because motor traffic is stationary you still need to obey the Green Cross Code! Why should PCSOs be obsessed with cyclists and RLJ-ing?

ketka82

I might even consider becoming a PCSO so I can stand at the lights all day and nick RLJers! Sounds fun!

There is nothing more annoying than having to overtake the same RLJer over and over....
When they are all ultimately dragged down to Hades by the four horsemen of the apocalypse this should be their punishment; having to overtake the same dopy cyclist again and again and again and again for all eternity!!! :twisted:

Greg T

Headhuunter wrote:

Just because motor traffic is stationary you still need to obey the Green Cross Code!

Can't..........resist.......the.....great......white.....shark....bite.......of....death......


So we have to obey the Green Cross Code as Darth Vader told us to but can ignore the highway code as we are special?



Argh I hate myself.

snailracer

NitrousOxide wrote:

Another time, I cycled (slowly) through that same underpass and passed a couple of PSCOs/POs coming the other direction, they didn't bat an eyelid. Perhaps it was in my favour that I don't zoom along there at road speed, or maybe they were hypnotised by fluorescent orange frame...

Then they are doing what their boss told them to do, either by accident or design:

Home Office Minister Paul Boeteng issued to the police when Fixed Penalty Notices for cycling on a footway were introduced, it said:

'The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required.'

This guidance has been reiterated by John Crozier of the Home Office who in a letter dated 23/02/04 (Ref T5080/4) with reference to the use of FPN's by Community Support Officers's Stated:

'The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice. I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16.'

Dudu

downfader wrote:

Dudu wrote:

downfader wrote:

a team of PCSOs and perhaps one or two Constables could be used in trouble spots to deal with the antisocial cycling that often plagues the debates here

Hmmm... They'd better know their traffic law first.

The only time I've ever been stopped cycling anywhere was when a PCSO tried to stop me riding along a (closed) street market from which cars have been banned. He didn't seem to know what a blue sign bearing pictures of a pedestrian and a bicycle in white, with a white border, meant.

Did you take his details and report him for an educational chat?

Better than that, I phoned 999 and got his boss (a slightly careworn-looking sergeant) to come and give him a bollocking. I use this particular street to avoid a six-lane racetrack where a policewoman was killed shortly before this incident when some b@stard drove into her and her other half while they were on their motorbike.

Greg T

snailracer wrote:

This guidance has been reiterated by John Crozier of the Home Office who in a letter dated 23/02/04 (Ref T5080/4) with reference to the use of FPN's by Community Support Officers's Stated:

It's the Fuzz!



SCATTER!