Helmets? What do you think?

Snelly

And Macman - I agree with you completely.

Toilet Duck

To be honest I'm about to buy a new bike this week, after a gap of 5-6 years away from bikes.

Up until now, I'd never owned a helmet while on a bike, never saw the point, yes I had falls, bruises, even ended up in hospital getting treated a couple of times (ended up on crutches once!), as a result of bike related injuries.

However as I say after 5-6 years out of the saddle, I'm buying a bike to start getting too and from work again, (mainly because I'm tight, and want to save diesel money, so the bike will pay for itself in less than a year), Will I be getting a helmet?

Yes, and not because I think they are a great style accessory, or I'm paranoid of breaking my head, if it was just me I'd not wear a helmet of my own choice unless the law changes. But the difference this time round: I've got a 5 Year old son, whose learning to ride, who i make wear a helmet. So I can hardly ask him to wear a helmet, if I then turn round and don't wear one myself. So much as I don't want to wear one, I'll be getting one and wearing it.

Northwind

Hmm. I didn't wear a helmet at all when I was younger, but then what I was riding was mostly pretty tame, because of the hardware and the trails available. But these days kids aren't always doing that, so it's not the best comparison maybe, things change.

(my favourite "helmet saved my life" story is my own- I had a huge crash on the way to school once, a car pulled out of a T junction on me and I nailed it at about 30mph, snapped my bike in half, hit that car a bit, then ended up going through the windscreen of a parked one. Absolutely torn to shreds, though no major damage. But when I was in a&e doctors and nurses kept saying "Your helmet saved your life". It was on the shelf at home, so that's quite good going

supersonic

Snelly wrote:

I agree with Tom Butcher and I have the same attitude with my children too. I think Tom is abolutely correct in his assessment of risk and I applaud his judgement and common sense approach to this issue.

I don't expect you all to agree with my position but couldn't care less if you don't. We're all different.

I am 38 and didn't grow up with helmets, health and safety, nanny state controls and an entire industry built around telling the country what could and could not be done and what precautions need to be taken. I prefer to use my own judgement and common sense as I respect my take on these things far more than either anyone from the H&S executive or anyone from a younger generation that has grown up n a culture where all risks seem to have a burning need to be mitigated.

I got sent the content below from a mate about a month ago and some of the posts on this thread brought it to mind. It is quite long so sorry if I am hijacking the thread but I thought it salient!

I was born in the early 70's and we survived being born to mothers who drank while they carried us and lived in houses made of asbestos. They took aspirin, ate blue cheese, raw egg products, loads of bacon and processed meat, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes or cervical cancer.

Then after that trauma, our baby cots were covered with bright coloured lead-based paints. We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets or shoes, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking.

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags. We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle...

We ate cakes, white bread and real butter and drank soft drinks with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because......WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!!

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on. No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of old prams and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. We built tree houses and dens and played in river beds with matchbox cars. We did not have Playstations, Nintendo Wii , X-boxes, no video games at all, no 999 channels on SKY, no video/dvd films, no mobile phones, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms..........WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no Lawsuits from these accidents.

Only girls had pierced ears!

We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.

You could only buy Easter Eggs and Hot Cross Buns at Easter time...

We were given air guns and catapults for our 10th birthdays,

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just yelled for them!

RUGBY and CRICKET had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!! Getting into the team was based on MERIT.

Our teachers used to hit us with canes and gym shoes and bully's always ruled the playground at school.

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!

Our parents didn't invent stupid names for their kids like 'Kiora' and 'Blade' and 'Ridge' and 'Vanilla'

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned HOW TO DEAL WITH IT ALL !


Incredibly, I survived. Just like everyone else I grew up with. So please don't expect me to think that "it's about mitigation of risk" or "it only takes one accident to turn you into a vegetable" (sic). I know all that and I accept it as I am happy with the odds.

Life is a risky business.

And lastly, If I am biking off road or snowboarding at even greater speed then yes, I always wear a helmet and so will my kids. However, they will also grow up with an understanding of when these things are needed and in addition, that anyone connected with H&S is probably not worth listening to. They will have independent minds, just like me.

Good post! Interesting that a male born now will live on avergae 8 years longer than if they were born in the early 1970s though ;-)

biff55

its a personal choice , period. wear helmet or dont its YOUR choice. as bike chav i couldnt possibly leave home without my burbury check baseball cap

furby

Had a fair sized crash on friday, biggest I have had in a while (motor and mountain bike), pretty sure my MET helmet saved me from some bad head injurys.

Will continue to always wear a helmet.

tom-117

i have only just started wearing a helmet and the first day i had it on i had a big off on a jump and theres big delves and scratches in the helmet i just thought to myself "they would of been in my head" i will always wear a helmet from now on.

wordnumb

< if none of these Emoticons see fit to wear a helmet I don't see why I should. :P

Nik_B

supersonic wrote:

Good post! Interesting that a male born now will live on avergae 8 years longer than if they were born in the early 1970s though ;-)

How could anyone possibly know that?

Daz555

Nik_B wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Good post! Interesting that a male born now will live on avergae 8 years longer than if they were born in the early 1970s though ;-)

How could anyone possibly know that?

Average life expectancy has risen over the years and is still going up - better health care is the main contributer to this however.

Sadly, this trend is expected to reverse slightly in future generations due to sharply rising obesity levels, which show no sign of abating.

Anonymous

Daz555 wrote:

Sadly, this trend is expected to reverse slightly in future generations due to sharply rising obesity levels, which show no sign of abating.

That could only be a good thing, really, we're getting totally overcrowded on our little orb right now.

Snelly

Daz555 wrote:

Nik_B wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Good post! Interesting that a male born now will live on avergae 8 years longer than if they were born in the early 1970s though ;-)

How could anyone possibly know that?

Average life expectancy has risen over the years and is still going up - better health care is the main contributer to this however.

Sadly, this trend is expected to reverse slightly in future generations due to sharply rising obesity levels, which show no sign of abating.

One thing's for sure, greater life expectancy for the population has nowt to do with wearing helmets when mountain biking!

wordnumb

Apart from that guy who was so worried and unable to decide whether he should wear a lid when cycled he walked out in front of a bus.

Nik_B

People in born in the 1970's haven't started dieing of old age so my point is that it is impossible to know if people today have a lower or higher life expectancy.

One thing is for sure as someone else posted people are exercising much less and more likely to be over weight these days....

oh and wagon wheels are smaller than they used to be!

Bring back the olden days

mac_man

Just thought I'd throw this in.....

Person I know hit a car, who pulled out on him, whilst traveling at around 20-30mph on his bike.

He hit the car, head contacting with the A pillar, flipped over the car and landed the other side.

Medical experts on both sides of his case agree that in a collision, at anything much over 12mph, the helmet is ineffective at reducing brain damage. This due to the amount of 'bounce' within the skull that the brain suffers on impact. The helmet will stop your head splitting open but won't stop the brain getting damaged.

Having said that, I still wouldn't leave the house without one.

ghancock

I believe mac man is right in that over a certain speed helmets are ineffective in impact injuries, and there is also an argument that helmets actually increase the damage in rotational injury, due to the increased weight of the helmet.

Despite this, I'd still be reluctant to go out without one.

Anonymous

Even in impact injuries, helemts will still absorb SOME of the force. That little difference could potentially be the difference between life and death.

I can't see how a helmet from motorsports is deemed to dissipate impacts, but a bicycle helmet, supossedly doesn't. Surely the hard shell "in-moulding" everyone is using these days spreads the load across a wider area, helping to decelerate the head more gently.

Daz555

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Even in impact injuries, helmets will still absorb SOME of the force. That little difference could potentially be the difference between life and death.

I can't see how a helmet from motor sports is deemed to dissipate impacts, but a bicycle helmet, supposedly doesn't. Surely the hard shell "in-moulding" everyone is using these days spreads the load across a wider area, helping to decelerate the head more gently.

Indeed, I'm sure all helmets dissipate some of the impact. Howver, the shell of a motorcycle helmet is a very different beast. For a start the shell alone can weigh 3 times as much as an entire bicycle helmet and depending on materials used, the shell of a motorcycle helmet can be as much as 5mm in thickness.

Of course, some full-face DH lids are a fair bit closer to a motorcycle helmet.

Northwind

Nik_B wrote:

People in born in the 1970's haven't started dieing of old age so my point is that it is impossible to know if people today have a lower or higher life expectancy.

Careful or I'll get my actuary mate to start posting here You're actually wrong, though what you're saying seems to make sense- average life expectancy is pushed up most not by extending old age etc but by reducing the amount of young deaths. So, yes, we can say with near certainty that the generation of the 70s will outlive that of the 60s, because so many less died before 30. We'd have to start dying dramatically early to balance that out.

Daz555

Northwind wrote:

average life expectancy is pushed up most not by extending old age etc but by reducing the amount of young deaths.

Got some stats to back that up? I don't buy it.

Life expectancy at age 65 since 1981: http://www.gad.gov.uk/Demography%20Data ... UKe65.html

Life expectancy from birth since 1981: http://www.gad.gov.uk/Demography%20Data ... Keolb.html

Those stats don't support your view.

Northwind

Daz555 wrote:

Got some stats to back that up? I don't buy it.

Nah, I don't, but if I can bother Graham into posting he'll harsh you up with actuarial tables It's basically just maths though- if you have an average life expectancy of 70, and someone dies at 10 years old, you need someone else to live to 130 to maintain the average. More people die at 10 than 130, and it's easier to get people to live 10 years longer at 30 than at 100. Average lifespans in the early part of the century went up hugely even though maximum lifespans didn't, just because of the fall in infant mortality.

Or so I understand it, I failed higher maths twice and now I'm so bad at maths, I actually work for a bank

supersonic

Nik_B wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Good post! Interesting that a male born now will live on avergae 8 years longer than if they were born in the early 1970s though ;-)

How could anyone possibly know that?

That is why it is called life expectancy ;-).

Maybe I should have made it more clear what I was saying lol.

Asbestos snowballs were great though! (don't try that at home kids)

captainfly

Daz555 wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Even in impact injuries, helmets will still absorb SOME of the force. That little difference could potentially be the difference between life and death.

I can't see how a helmet from motor sports is deemed to dissipate impacts, but a bicycle helmet, supposedly doesn't. Surely the hard shell "in-moulding" everyone is using these days spreads the load across a wider area, helping to decelerate the head more gently.

Indeed, I'm sure all helmets dissipate some of the impact. Howver, the shell of a motorcycle helmet is a very different beast. For a start the shell alone can weigh 3 times as much as an entire bicycle helmet and depending on materials used, the shell of a motorcycle helmet can be as much as 5mm in thickness.

Of course, some full-face DH lids are a fair bit closer to a motorcycle helmet.

And that is why I use a fiberglass full face helmet,
if I was any good as in faster I'd think about a DOT appoved lid. and maybe on of those crbon fiber neck support things along simlar lines of the motorsport hans.