Focus Cayo Expert or Planet X SL pro Carbon?

Sparklehorse

Hi,

In a bit of a dilemma over these 2 bikes. One (the Focus) is approx 800 quid more. I'm trying to make a call on whether that extra 800 is worth it. The SL pro carbon at 999 looks a total steal.

I mostly do shortish rides and the odd sportive - I think I'd be happy with something aggressive like the Cayo.

Any owners of these or opinions on which way to go?

Planet X:- http://www.planet-x-warehouse.co.uk/?p=5745

Focus:- http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Focus ... 360037586/

redddraggon

What size bike do you need?

Sparklehorse

I'm 5'11" so would probably go for a Large Planet X or a 56cm Cayo.

I think the wheels and groupset account for the price diff. But Ultegra 6700 on a well reviewed frame has got me thinking.

STEFANOS4784

I read through some of the comments on there and one question was about the weight and this is the reply

planet-x wrote:

weight will depend on final choice of specs , but you could get sub 16lb i reckon

standard build probably circa 17.5

we can weigh a few of the first ones built tomorrow

dave

If that guestimation is correct then 17.5lbs is 7.95 kilos so that would make the PX over half a Kilo lighter than the Focus standard, this would make me sway towards th P-X especialy considering the hefty price difference-you would then have enough dosh left over for loads of lovely cycling goodies

Sparklehorse

hmm - interesting

I make the Cayo about 17.74lbs. TBH - I don't see that as being much heavier than the Planet X and the fact it always seems to garner such rave reviews attracts me.

It's a good point you make and I'm not sure it's worth 800 more.

Escargot

Purely for interest (as there were some stonking PX discussions recently ) I looked at the PX bike builder tool and when you add up the equivalent wheels, stem, seat post, saddle etc. it starts to reduce the difference. It would still make the PX cheaper but the Mavic wheels and Red group set are worth a considerable amount more than the Ultegra and basic wheels.

Ultimately I guess it boils down to whether you want top of the range Red or mid range Ultegra (I have Ultegra btw so am not slagging it off). As good as Ultegra is I would personaly go for the Focus.

I sometimes try to fool myself that buying the cheaper option and saving some money is the way to go but ultimately end up wanting to upgrade later on. Nowadays I try to buy the very best I can with the money I have.

A tough one though so all the best with the decision.

Squillinossett

If it was my choice, I would be getting the PX and spending some of the money saved on a very nice set of wheels!

STEFANOS4784

Sparklehorse wrote:

hmm - interesting

I make the Cayo about 17.74lbs. TBH - I don't see that as being much heavier than the Planet X and the fact it always seems to garner such rave reviews attracts me.

It's a good point you make and I'm not sure it's worth 800 more.

wiggle wrote:

Weight: 8.05 kgs

Taken from there website

STEFANOS4784

Also that Focus has Mavic Ksyrium Equipe Wheels, which i don't understand to be that great, the Planet x bikes and wheels always get rave reviews anyway and with the 700 quid you could get a really nice set of wheels for the summer months?

eh

You aren't comparing like with like, for instance the Ultegra Cayo (2009) is only £300 more than the Planet-X. Also you have to build the Planet-X yourself or add £100 to the price.

Personally it comes down to do you prefer compact or traditional frames and how much do you value stiffness because the Cayo is a stiffer frame.

wombler

Just out of interest (and not meaning to send the thread off course), is there a detailed review/comparison of Planet-X, Focus, Ribble and Boardman bikes of similar spec? They all get discussed a lot on these forums and it would be useful to know the relative strengths and differences between the bikes.

amck111

The Planet X bike is a great deal, my friend was going to buy one yesterday but they have already sold out in his size. (Could make your decision a bit easier)

As much as love the look of the Focus, I would go with the Planet X and spend the surplus on new wheels/bike gear as a few have already said. Though if your not too keen on building the bike up the Focus is a sure winner!

donnie murdo

You could actually build the bike (Planet X) yourself its pretty simple. The only thing people find difficult is indexing gears and you can get an LBS to do that for around £20 if you have at least bolted the kit onto the frame in a rough setting.
bear in mind that if you do get a bike from wiggle (anyone else) you will still have to do a little bit of self assembly.

Escargot

eh wrote:

You aren't comparing like with like, for instance the Ultegra Cayo (2009) is only £300 more than the Planet-X. Also you have to build the Planet-X yourself or add £100 to the price.

Personally it comes down to do you prefer compact or traditional frames and how much do you value stiffness because the Cayo is a stiffer frame.

I think 'eh' has hit the nail on the head.

If you look at the equivalent P-X SRAM Red offering it costs £1599 unbuilt and in base form so you really need to compare the two.

I'm not sure if its true that P-X simply buy in a generic frame/forks and then rebadge but if so then I believe the additional for the Focus is worth it.

galatzo

Got a Cayo Campag from Wiggle
Excellent bike and company.
Re setting a bike up from Wiggle - all that had to be done was put bars in to stem centre and tighten, stem was attached to fork steerer perfectly already. Fit pedals. Set seat height. Gears were indexed perfectly with cables checked for stretching a massive plus as stretching cables affecting indexing is one of the first things causing a trip back to the bike shop.

STEFANOS4784

I'ts tricky really, anyone with a PX says it's great, any-one with a Cayo says it's great, you need to find someone who has ridden both fairly extensively to give a anywhere near decent opinion, I, however, have ridden neither so i'm just saying what i'd do personally in your shoes. Anyone on here own/owned both? Thoughts?

cal_stewart

look at the cayo, doesn't it have a cheap crankset. that put me off.

oldnslowcp

I have a Planet X and love it. Initially I wasn't overgone on such a compact frame but it's grown on me. As I built it myself I feel a great "connection" with it. A few things to be wary of, get your size right, if you have a road bike and find it comfortable then take measurements and discuss with Planet X. If you're happy to build then away you go, I used a headset crown race setting tool in my LBS, he was OK about me hitting my own carbon steerer! Measure, remeasure, try on the bike with spacers before commiting to sawing through the steerer. To be exact you'll want to use a torque wrench rather than "feel". Indexing DA was a doddle. I had to return the rear wheel twice, first time with a locked cassette hub, then because the cones were binding, no problems dealing with PX and my postage was refunded.

Had the bike for 9 months and 5 100+ sportives, found I hated the saddle, otherwise it is smooth, comfortable, climbs well (much easier than my alu), is just what I want.

Recently a friend with 2 carbon frame bikes (one is a Giant TCR full DA) borrowed my bike and has said that he'll be selling the Giant to fund a PX as he found it so comfortable.

Even so, if you felt you were picking your second choice bike, you'd inevitably end up wishing you'd gone for the first. Both are good bikes, as are a lot of others too, it all comes down to what will give you the biggest wow factor.

N4PALM

I'd say what you should be concentrating on is not the spec and weight but which bike has the better geometry to suit you.

Personally I think the Cayo has the better geometry. sure its aggressive and I would always be riding with a full spacer stack under my stem but at least it would fit.

I reckon the PX geometry is a little wierd. The medium has a too small head tube but a decent TT length. The large has a decent sized head tube but the effective reach is just that little too long.

I'd much rather set me a budget and find the best bike I could that fits me, even if that means only going with a 'lesser' gruppo. As long as your at least on 105 theres no worries really unless snobbery takes hold.

FWIW I'd buy a Ribble Nero Corsa or a Brand X frame and just sling whatever gruppo I could afford on it or use it as a frame upgrade for my current bike. But thats cos they are frames that would fit me, same goes for Colnago but theres me living in a dream world.

jam7952

Cal_Stewart wrote:

look at the cayo, doesn't it have a cheap crankset. that put me off.

Not quite "cheap" the crank fitted to the cayo sram is the sram s950, it sits between the rival and force groups and retails at £254.99, not far off the same price as a sram red gxp.....

I did however change the one on mine to the red offering, not just for aesthetics but also to get a full size chainset as the s950 is a compact.

I have only been riding my new cayo this week but am already in love with the thing...it's going to get royally pimped this year!

Personally between the x and cayo i would go for the cayo, it's half way there to a red groupset and looks the dogs danglies!

daveplanetx

Just one note on the very valid point of comparing like for like

The focus sram red bike is only part sram red - in fact it has a significant downspec with a big retail price difference , planet x sram red bike is currently full sram red - the difference is huge , believe me because ive just specced up our 2010 bikes and we have a sram red model coming but with non sram red brakes / cassette / chain / cranks / front mech and were aiming for close to 999 .

cassette SRAM OG-focus 1070 10 speed 12-26 retail 60 versus px sram red retail 190
Crankset SRAM - focusS950 compact 50/34 retail 250 vs planet x sram red retail 300
Front Derailleur - focus SRAM Force retail 42 versus planet x sram red retail 99
Chain- focus SRAM PC-1050 retail 30 versus planet x retail 48
Brakes - focus SRAM Force retail 150 vs planet x sram red retail 250

by my calculations thats circa 130 pls 50 plus 57 plus 18 plus 100 = 355 !

thats a whopping 355 pounds chopped out of a spec , both bikes described as sram red , one bike fully specced up complete group, the other a stripped down version .

Still the focus is a great bike , but it certainly isnt specced on a like for like comparison .

redddraggon

Dave, why did you design a bike that in the smallest size you couldn't fit a bottle cage on the seattube?

Seems a massive negative to me.

x8swift9x

redddraggon wrote:

Dave, why did you design a bike that in the smallest size you couldn't fit a bottle cage?

Seems a massive negative to me.

The smallest frame takes one bottle cage.

redddraggon

x8swift9x wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

Dave, why did you design a bike that in the smallest size you couldn't fit a bottle cage on the seattube?

Seems a massive negative to me.

The smallest frame takes one bottle cage.

I know

But One bottle cage is fcuking useless, every other manufacturer manages to put one on the seattube too.

Gazzaputt

Love my SRAM Red Cayo.

I ridden Force and Red groupos.

The difference is shifting with Red far out weighs Foprce on the rear. Red front mechs I don't rate. Also the difference between Force and Red brakes is negligible imo. Same for the S950 crankset and Red.

Wheels on the Cayo could be improved.

I've changed the Seatpost, stem and bars all to FSA K-Force on mine and put Mavic Kyrisums Elites on it. Also put a K-Force chainset I had as well.

The ride is exceptional.

gabriel959

Indeed it is, I mean it is all well and good to have one bottle cage if you have a support car but most of my rides I make extensive use of both bottles. I wouldn't buy one if I was a small rider.

Probably Planet X would like it to have 2 bottle cages but as they don’t design the frame they are stuck with it. Seeing how much Planet X is growing I wouldn’t be surprised if they managed to get a frame for themselves only and still be able to sell loads – it would be even better if they started to sell to other European countries.

daveplanetx

some comments / replies


"The difference is shifting with Red far out weighs Foprce on the rear. Red front mechs I don't rate. Also the difference between Force and Red brakes is negligible imo. Same for the S950 crankset and Red. "

- the spec of bike were just working on is exactly this , sram red shifters / mechs but brakes /chainset/cassette/chain/front mech all downspecced , not much performance loss and quite a lot of price saved


- yes it is unfortunate the small px only takes 1 bottle, but the frame has a very compact design and just doesnt accomoate bottle on seattube , our less compact design ti pro road and superlight team alloy both take 2 bottles but the geometry is only semi compact

- we do have a new frame coming ,bit more expensive , about 950g , in new graphics , its about 3 months away , should be some pics on the website next week

- we actually sell a lot of stuff to europe , we have very big markets in finland and belgium , ok in germany , not sure why finland but its number 4 or 5 in our sales volume

Percy Vera

redddraggon wrote:

Dave, why did you design a bike that in the smallest size you couldn't fit a bottle cage on the seattube?

Maybe it was thought, small people don't drink as much as big people! Like an engine, a 1.2 litre won't drink as much petrol as a 4 litre.

alfablue

daveplanetx wrote:

some comments / replies

- we actually sell a lot of stuff to europe , we have very big markets in finland and belgium , ok in germany , not sure why finland but its number 4 or 5 in our sales volume

The Finish people are a very smart, sophisticated and independent thinking race.

flanners1

The Focus is a very stiff frame especially on the back end, is not a 'relaxing' ride but quite full on, can be a bit skittery rather than planted. Red is nice but I'm not sure it is worth the extra.

The PX is a good bike, compact size looks a little odd, will 'do it all'. Can shake it's head a bit a large speeds. Nowt wrong with Ultegra either.

As with most choices it comes down to a few variables but aesthetics and branding sways a lot of people; as as I saw a few weeks ago all (well most)! those on their brand new superbikes were barfing up lungs on the first climb and were never seen again, it's you and your fitness the odd few hundred grams difference is pants IMO.

Personally I would get the PX and put the money into a set of decent hoops and some nice clothing, that said the PX model B's are pretty good already.

giner1961

I have a planet X and i like it put it together with Ultegra SL, i am also 5'11 and went for the large size just right, climbs really well, probably over steerers a little on fast corners but overall i like it and value for money is exellent.