Sorry mate, I didn't see your bike...

Anonymous

http://www.physorg.com/news167925273.html/?

Crapaud

Pokerface

That's what the guy who hot me with his car today said!


So Alex- can you tell me - when traffic isn't moving, should I be passing on the left or on the right on my bike?


I was riding down the road, hugging the curb as normal, passing a load of cars that were stopped (about a mile long backlog), and a bright spark decided he didn't want to wait any longer - so he pulled left in front of me into a car park to turn around. Unfortunately he didn't look or see me and I went into the side of his car.

And then he blamed ME saying I should be passing on the right!

Bruised leg. No bike damage.

Who's to blame?

Anonymous

Gordon Brown

bompington

Although no-one could possibly disagree with NapD's apportioning of blame, the highway code does explicitly say that cyclists can pass stationary or slow moving traffic on the left.

Pokerface

I should have asked him how many cycle lanes he has seen on the RIGHT!

If cyclists were expected to pass on the right - we'd be getting knocked into oncoming traffic instead of postboxes.

disgruntledgoat

I usually go on the right, purely because that's where a driver expects things to come from.

gpsBRM

Pass on the right 9 times out of 10. Much safer, plus you can go quicker.

Headhuunter

gpsBRM wrote:

Pass on the right 9 times out of 10. Much safer, plus you can go quicker.

Passing on the right is way more dangerous. At least if you pass on the left the worst you have to contend with is a left hook from a stoopid driver or a stoopid meandering pedestrian.

f you pass on the right you're effectively on a contra flow system and you have oncoming traffic to contend with - head on collision at combined speed of 50mph anyone? All it takes is some driver not concentrating on the road and veering towards the traffic in your lane and all of a sudden the gap between the 2 lanes is too narrow and you're toast. Or a driver pulling out to pass a bus in the other lane, doesn't see you and bang - you have the choice - crash into the slow moving/stationary cars on the left, or go head on with the driver in the other lane.

Also you're still not safe from loony drivers suddenly deciding they're had enough of queuing and suddenly deciding to do a U turn without checking for bikes or motorbikes passing (as some bloke did in front of me in Greenwich - luckily I only clipped his wing mirror and was able to keep going). Nor are you free from the lunacy of the wandering pedestrian sauntering out of the traffic.

disgruntledgoat

Headhuunter wrote:

gpsBRM wrote:

Pass on the right 9 times out of 10. Much safer, plus you can go quicker.

Passing on the right is way more dangerous. At least if you pass on the left the worst you have to contend with is a left hook from a stoopid driver or a stoopid meandering pedestrian.

Or something turning left... or doors opening from parked vehicles...

Headhuunter

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

gpsBRM wrote:

Pass on the right 9 times out of 10. Much safer, plus you can go quicker.

Passing on the right is way more dangerous. At least if you pass on the left the worst you have to contend with is a left hook from a stoopid driver or a stoopid meandering pedestrian.

Or something turning left... or doors opening from parked vehicles...

If you pass on the right you also have to watch for something turning right and it's just as possible that someone might open their door in front of you if the traffic is stationary - it's happened to me! All in all, both passing on the left and right are risky, but passing on the right just tips the balance

Pokerface

I should clarify and say I wasn't speeding along. Maybe 15MPH as there wasn't a lot of room between the side of the road and the long line of cars. But the road is narrow and wouldn't want to pass them all on the right in this case.


Coming up to a junction I might pass on the right - so as to not get mushed by someone turning left without looking, but not on a long stretch of straight road.

gkerr4

disgruntledgoat wrote:

I usually go on the right, purely because that's where a driver expects things to come from.

I follow this logic too - as car driver I can't remember the time I last expected something to undertake (not to say I don't look to check - but a lot don't!)

That said - it is a difficult thing to judge - I go on what seems most appropriate for the time / location. Going to the right there is always the chance they make a last ditch attempt to U-turn or turn into a street without warning (particularly if it is a big jam and there is frustration involved).

another downside for the left is the chance (high-ish) that the passeneger will throw their door open without looking!

difficult to say

Headhuunter

gkerr4 wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

I usually go on the right, purely because that's where a driver expects things to come from.

I follow this logic too - as car driver I can't remember the time I last expected something to undertake (not to say I don't look to check - but a lot don't!)

That said - it is a difficult thing to judge - I go on what seems most appropriate for the time / location. Going to the right there is always the chance they make a last ditch attempt to U-turn or turn into a street without warning (particularly if it is a big jam and there is frustration involved).

another downside for the left is the chance (high-ish) that the passeneger will throw their door open without looking!

difficult to say

Let's get this straight though, it's not "undertaking", it's called filtering through traffic and bikes (as well as mopeds, motorbikes etc etc) are allowed to do this as per the Highway Code. It's up to drivers to check what's coming from behind before making a sudden manoevre

bompington

Next time you're in traffic watch how often drivers check if there's anyone coming up inside them before they turn left or, for that matter, pull into a cycle lane (I still have the scars...). The answer is, of course, pretty much never. And ask yourself: when you're driving, how often do you?
That said, I still think it's safer on the left than the right, because drivers don't actually check before moving right either, they just assume that anyone behind them will stay behind them; and you have the oncoming traffic to contend with.
Whichever way you go, you literally put your life on the line every time you overtake on a bike.

gkerr4

Headhuunter wrote:

gkerr4 wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

I usually go on the right, purely because that's where a driver expects things to come from.

I follow this logic too - as car driver I can't remember the time I last expected something to undertake (not to say I don't look to check - but a lot don't!)

That said - it is a difficult thing to judge - I go on what seems most appropriate for the time / location. Going to the right there is always the chance they make a last ditch attempt to U-turn or turn into a street without warning (particularly if it is a big jam and there is frustration involved).

another downside for the left is the chance (high-ish) that the passeneger will throw their door open without looking!

difficult to say

Let's get this straight though, it's not "undertaking", it's called filtering through traffic and bikes (as well as mopeds, motorbikes etc etc) are allowed to do this as per the Highway Code. It's up to drivers to check what's coming from behind before making a sudden manoevre

I know that - I'm a motorcyclist and driver as well as a cyclist.

I still wouldn't do it though - my way of thinking is: - It's all very well talking about "rights of way" and "priorities", "code says this" etc - but if you are doing it from a hospital bed or a wheelchair then it's a bit of a waste of time.

we all have a responsibility to look out for each other on the roads and if doing something one way makes it safer (even if we should be able to to it the other way) then that is one less casualty.

Headhuunter

gkerr4 wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

gkerr4 wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

I usually go on the right, purely because that's where a driver expects things to come from.

I follow this logic too - as car driver I can't remember the time I last expected something to undertake (not to say I don't look to check - but a lot don't!)

That said - it is a difficult thing to judge - I go on what seems most appropriate for the time / location. Going to the right there is always the chance they make a last ditch attempt to U-turn or turn into a street without warning (particularly if it is a big jam and there is frustration involved).

another downside for the left is the chance (high-ish) that the passeneger will throw their door open without looking!

difficult to say

Let's get this straight though, it's not "undertaking", it's called filtering through traffic and bikes (as well as mopeds, motorbikes etc etc) are allowed to do this as per the Highway Code. It's up to drivers to check what's coming from behind before making a sudden manoevre

I know that - I'm a motorcyclist and driver as well as a cyclist.

I still wouldn't do it though - my way of thinking is: - It's all very well talking about "rights of way" and "priorities", "code says this" etc - but if you are doing it from a hospital bed or a wheelchair then it's a bit of a waste of time.

we all have a responsibility to look out for each other on the roads and if doing something one way makes it safer (even if we should be able to to it the other way) then that is one less casualty.

Well exactly, filtering on the left or right is pretty dangerous given the cluelessness exhibited by some drivers and peds, but filtering up the left is safer than filtering up the right.

gkerr4

I'm not sure it is - at least not 100% of the time - again it depends on the time place.


that said - seeing you are a londoner - I've never ridden on london roads - for your circumstances it may well be the case - here in Blackpool the only traffic I encounter is on the prom and here, often, the right is (IMO) the safest place to be.

Pokerface

Sorry - but bikes are meant to be on the left. At all times. That's why cycle lanes are on the left.

Passing on the left and on the right only leads to weaving in and out of traffic and can only be MORE dangerous than riding on the left where drivers expect to see cyclists.

Of course, I'm not talking about big city cycling here - this is more in the country.

Just think about it - one minute you're riding on the left, and then you have to swerve to the other side of the lane to pass on the right? That, to me, is more dangerous than holding your line....

nwallace

On a car, The off-side mirror has a blind spot eradicator, the near-side does not
A passenger is more likely to open the door without looking behind on the nearside because they are opening onto a pavement, at best they will check that no one is inline with the door before opening it (because it would just be bad manners to whack someone on the arse with a door.

A passenger exiting from the offside of a vehicle in traffic is much more likely to check as they open the door because there is a much bigger danger of something crashing into them.

I've never seen a motorcycle filter on the nearside of the leftmost lane.

I can also think of many cycle lanes that are central on the lead up to junctions.

Cycle lanes in free flow are on the left because the highway code tells all vehicles to keep left.
Only trams are allowed to hug the centre (and your meant to undertake them)
And even then that's on the old style systems where the line(s) were in the centre and passengers alighted onto the road rather than raised pavements.

volvicspar

It doesn't matter, if you filter on the left and get hit the motorist will say you should be on the right and if you filter on the right and get hit the motorist will say you should be on the left.

So, you can't win

jedster

Personally I feel much safer overtaking on the right. It's somewhat counterintuitive and when I started cycle comuuting I would have said that the left was safer but experience has taught me that the right is better:

1. gap in the middle is usually bigger than the one near the kerb. This removes the theoretical risk of a head-on with oncoming traffic. Obviously I wouldn't filter on the right if the gap was narrow and oncoming traffice was moving quickly. But then if the gap is narrow in the middle it is almost certainly very narrow on the right so I would just sit in the middle of my lane (primary) and wait
2. you have more escape routes from the middle
3. drivers check their right mirrors more frequently than their left
4. drivers can pull in to the kerb at any moment. Of course they can pull right but you tend to get more warning from the environment e.g., is there a turning on the right?, is there a gap that could allow a u-turn? If so, look out!
5. more likely to get doored on the left

oh and I amazed that anyone thinks that cycle lane positioning provides a good indication of sensible road positioning!

J

Mothyman

..for 40 femtoseconds there, I thought we were talking about invisible bikes....

bobpzero

yep i want one. wonder if it rides better than a aluminium bike you can see.

markyboy2005

bobpzero wrote:

yep i want one. wonder if it rides better than a aluminium bike you can see.

Depends on what side you overtake...... :twisted:

Le Commentateur

jedster wrote:

Personally I feel much safer overtaking on the right. It's somewhat counterintuitive and when I started cycle comuuting I would have said that the left was safer but experience has taught me that the right is better:

1. gap in the middle is usually bigger than the one near the kerb. This removes the theoretical risk of a head-on with oncoming traffic. Obviously I wouldn't filter on the right if the gap was narrow and oncoming traffice was moving quickly. But then if the gap is narrow in the middle it is almost certainly very narrow on the right so I would just sit in the middle of my lane (primary) and wait
2. you have more escape routes from the middle
3. drivers check their right mirrors more frequently than their left
4. drivers can pull in to the kerb at any moment. Of course they can pull right but you tend to get more warning from the environment e.g., is there a turning on the right?, is there a gap that could allow a u-turn? If so, look out!
5. more likely to get doored on the left

oh and I amazed that anyone thinks that cycle lane positioning provides a good indication of sensible road positioning!

J

Related to #4, allso bear in mind that serious/fatal injuries are caused by turning HGVs running over riders attempting to filter past – be very careful if/when trying to filter past these near any junction or awkward abrupt bends in the road.

Anonymous

I had a close call today with a van on a blind right hand bend.

It overtook me then had to move in causing me to brake.

It was a mobile 'safety camera' van that said somethink like 'THINK - Drive safe' on the back!!

I would report them but then they'd find out who it was that called the driver a very rude name.

Mothyman

..just had a call from a mate who was driving a van in Cheshire... after an altercation with a bloke on a bike (with some new fancy wheels) he looked out of the window, gave 'theLook'...............................................................................................................................................and crushed him with an enormous display of white van power !