New open pro build gone wonky

N4PALM

I recently ordered an open pro 32h rear wheel build from an online retailer.

After my first ride on the wheel I noticed a slight but noticeable side to side wobble in the wheel. I was annoyed but ultimately it wasnt that far out and I figured as all the spokes were tight there wasnt a problem. Having said this the tension of spokes were clearly varied throughout the wheel I noticed when I pinged the spokes.

At the end of a long ride today I could feel a wobble at the rear end of the bike and when I stopped and spun the wheel there was a massive wobble and the rim was rubbing the brake blocks. On inspection of the spokes I find several lose spokes and one in particular that was so lose the nipple had dissapeard right up inside the rim. Thankfully I carry tools on me, I whipped out my spoke key, put some tension in the spokes to get me home.


Now I'm not knowledgeable about these things. I ordered an open pro wheel on many recommendation that a good open pro build is the best bang for your buck and that they are practically bomb-proof. I have not hit any big pot holes or had any impacts that would cause any kind of damage.

I would assume that there is a certain "bedding in" stage with spokes on a new wheel. But I would also assume this is all part of the build process and once properly built there should be no further problems. Am I correct in this thinking? I have done about 100 miles on this wheel and I am less than impressed that it is basically falling apart already.

What grounds do I have for complaint and what kind of remedy should I be chasing from this retailer about this issuse?

OR

Am I just being silly, Is this completely normal and should I just cough up for cash for someone else to sort this wheel out?

I just want to prepare myself for what I should be saying when I make the call on Monday morning to complain.

Thanks

Smokin Joe

You would be within your rights to return the wheel and have it sorted as clearly it is a crap build quality, but you risk the same clod who built it trying to true it up again. In this case I would suggest that the £10-£15 you would pay a competant builder in a bike shop to retension and true it would be money well spent.

It is a myth that handbuilt wheels are superior to factory builds. The build depends on the skill of the builder, and in my experience going back many years at least 50% of these great "craftsmen" who shout about their skills are clueless w@nkers. The fist pair of wheels I ever built myself by following an article in a magazine were better than half of those I had built for me over the years.

ride_whenever

handbuilt wheels will be built better. It isn't a skill per se though. It's a case of the time it takes reducing as you become more skillful.

Also handbuilts should bed in, they should be properly pre-stressed so the tension is even and they shouldn't ping when you first ride them.

Smokin Joe

ride_whenever wrote:

handbuilt wheels will be built better. It isn't a skill per se though. It's a case of the time it takes reducing as you become more skillful.

It is a skill, the skill is in getting the wheel round and true with the correct amount of tension. And it is a skill which not too many of the people who call themselves wheelbuilders possess, despite what they might like to think.

Monty Dog

I've seen far more badly built 'handbuilt' wheels that factory builds from the likes of Mavic, Campagnolo, Easton and the like. quality factory builds use tensioning technology and consistent quality few handbuilders can achieve. I build my own wheels too - but it's difficult to achieve the lack of weight, durability and strength of many factory builds using standard components

ride_whenever

It isn't a skill. I've built a few sets now, it's a process. You simply follow the process and take your time.

It took me 4 days on and off to build my first rear wheel. Getting it true and evenly tensioned and still round, plenty of pre-stressing. Put them on the bike eventually and they didn't ping once. Still true and round despite my best efforts :twisted:

A good wheelbuilder will take a LOT less time, 45mins to an hour to completely build a wheel.

The other thing that wheelbuilders should have is a tensionmeter, You can get away without the truing stand, using an old frame or whatever. But you need a tensionmeter IME.

N4PALM

Well wether or not its a skill/art/process whatever.....

I am rightly justified in my dissapointment with this build and have valid reason for complaint?

Should I return the wheel to them? Should I push for them to pay the bill for it to be rebuilt at an LBS? Does that seem fair?

I guess paying to have it done would be a last resort, I've spent enough recently.

Anyone know a good wheel builder in Bristol?

I'm extra concerned cos I have a front wheel also built by them currently in transit for delivery. After seeing this rear start to fall apart already I'm quite worried at what the front is going to turn up like.


Rest assured if I recieve some bad customer service from them regarding this, the naming and shaming shall comence. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, the builder was having a bad day or something, we all make mistakes..... bah!

Tom Butcher

It's really up to you - I'd have though you are within your rights to return the wheel and ask for a full refund - the path of least resistance may be to name and shame them on here and just pay a local shop to sort it out for you.

Nuggs

Smokin Joe wrote:

ride_whenever wrote:

handbuilt wheels will be built better. It isn't a skill per se though. It's a case of the time it takes reducing as you become more skillful.

It is a skill, the skill is in getting the wheel round and true with the correct amount of tension. And it is a skill which not too many of the people who call themselves wheelbuilders possess, despite what they might like to think.

I agree.

I build my own wheels, the first pair of which must have done over 1000 miles now. However, I know that they are far from perfect and I'd hate for someone who really knows what they're doing (i.e. knows more than they can read about in Schraners' book!) to give their honest assessment!

markos1963

You didn't buy it from Dave Hinde did you?

crankycrank

N4PALM wrote:

I am rightly justified in my dissapointment with this build and have valid reason for complaint?

Should I return the wheel to them? Should I push for them to pay the bill for it to be rebuilt at an LBS? Does that seem fair?

Absolutely, Yes, Yes and Yes. You recieved a crap build and should demand a fix of some sort. No self-respecting shop would knowingly send out a wheel built so poorly. Possibly the shop has some more "qualified" wheel builders and would be able to re-do it properly. If not demand a full refund or compensation for another shop to fix it.

N4PALM

Well I have spoken to them and they are arranging for the wheel to be picked up from me so they can fix it.

Hopefully they'll do it right this time, if not I'm going to be kicking up a right stink.

giant_man

And I do hope you let us know how you get on and who the retailer is?

N4PALM

Update: They arranged for the wheel to be picked up from me, fixed it and returned it.

I went out for a ride on it yesterday and so far it hasnt gone out of true (or worse) again.

However, yesterday was the first time the front wheel built by them was ridden. That wheel was dead straight when it arrived and now has a very slight but noticeable kick to the left once per revolution.


I reckon they just dont stress relieve their wheels enough during the build. I dont want to say bad things about them because I have always had excellent service from them in the past. Fairplay to them in this case too they sorted out the problem exactly the way they should and gave me great service. I just belive their wheel builder is a bit rushsed and doesnt have the time to stress relieve the wheels enough.

balthazar

It's latent spoke twist that the wheelbuilder failed to relieve during the build. Machanics used to send wheels out with the sage advice that they should be returned after a few days because everything will "settle in" – as the twisted spokes return to balance with a tinkling sound, sending the wheel out of true in the process. Impressive as it is to turn a failure of wheelbuilding into a feature, thankfully that schtick is mostly gone now, perhaps because of the popularity of factory wheels which often ride true from new.

In any case, it's unlikely the wheel was stress-relieved for durability either. Luckily, you could do that yourself: read near the bottom of Sheldon's page:

http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Once stress-relieved, and trued by somebody who understands spoke twist, you'll finally have lovely wheels you won't need to think about again.

geoff_ss

I've been building my own wheels for a long time and that's for tandems and trikes as well as single bicycles. I firmly believe that the only difference between a professional wheel builder and an amateur like me is time.

However, how anyone can make a mess of building a wheel with Mavic Open Pro rims and still call himself a professional is beyond me. I built the wheels for my new bike last year using Open Pros, Shimano 105 hubs and DT stainless spokes and they were absolutely spot-on. I've never managed to get a wheel true and round so easily. When I mentioned it to the wheel-builder at my LBS (where I bought the components) he commented that it was because those rims, unlike many, are round and flat before you start and so it's not necessary to pull them into line with the spokes.

The OP definitely has a case for redress against the supplier. Those wheels should be perfect for several 1000 kms at least.

Geoff

crankycrank

I'd agree with Geoff_SS that the Open Pro rims are about the easiest to build properly and the original builder is probably to blame for the lousy wheels. As long as you don't hit some massive potholes at 50mph and weigh less than 17 stone a good wheel build should last thousands of miles before needing any attention.

giant_man

N4PALM wrote:

Update: They arranged for the wheel to be picked up from me, fixed it and returned it.

I went out for a ride on it yesterday and so far it hasnt gone out of true (or worse) again.

However, yesterday was the first time the front wheel built by them was ridden. That wheel was dead straight when it arrived and now has a very slight but noticeable kick to the left once per revolution.


I reckon they just dont stress relieve their wheels enough during the build. I dont want to say bad things about them because I have always had excellent service from them in the past. Fairplay to them in this case too they sorted out the problem exactly the way they should and gave me great service. I just belive their wheel builder is a bit rushsed and doesnt have the time to stress relieve the wheels enough.

Then he shouldn't be doing it, because it could have been much worse and not just a wobble. You should let us know who it is though for safety's sake at least ....