What is DH?

supersonic

Following on from bits in many threads, how would you describe a typical DH track? Length, obstacles, size of drops and jumps etc? Or grades of each type of DH track?

deadliest

Is this in the correct category ?

grumsta

It's a track that would be best ridden on a downhill bike.

Steve_b77

Length, I'd say minimum of 1 1/2 minutes, any less would be mini-downhill.

Jumps - they gotta be big ass tabletops and step downs

Drops - I'd personally say 3ft as a minimum.

Lots of gnarly roots and/or rock garden(s) with slabs of rock that are fair sized, say armchair sized.

Steepness - enough to require a "fook me thats steep look"

Basically anything that's bloody hard on something other than a 160mm plus FS and not particullarly easy on that.

supersonic

deadliest wrote:

Is this in the correct category ?

Yes. I want a general opinion.

bendylegs69

people ride whatever they have at there disposal to ride downhill tracks

bomberesque

• designed only to be ridden down. Probably wouldn't be feasible to ride up, unless you're Hans Rey
• obstacles (steps, t-tops etc) getting at least 3' of air These can be manmade or natural
• uplift (anywhere but the UK) :roll:
• min 300 vertical meters but up to 1000+ common and far beyond that not unheard of
• not something that someone sensible would ride with out f-face and armour

supersonic

Interesting on the vertical descent - Canberra for instance was only about 170m

grumsta

Canberra for instance was only about 170m

And lots of people whinged that it was too flat.

supersonic

It was quite stretched out - the top bit had some nice rocky sections. But a lot of pedally bits.

ride_whenever

I'd say that no one would look at it and say, yeah I'd do that on my hardtail.

Hercule Q

ride_whenever wrote:

I'd say that no one would look at it and say, yeah I'd do that on my hardtail.

i would give it a go, had a go on the double black diamond at gawton on my hardtail

i'd say down hill is where you start on the top of a hill and perhaps ride a bike to the bottom of the hill

supersonic

Hercule Q wrote:

ride_whenever wrote:

I'd say that no one would look at it and say, yeah I'd do that on my hardtail.

i would give it a go, had a go on the double black diamond at gawton on my hardtail

i'd say down hill is where you start on the top of a hill and perhaps ride a bike to the bottom of the hill

Lol, but some hills you don't need a DH bike for that!

Anonymous

I'd say it's the kind of trail / track that would make the majority of everyday "trail" riders think twice before heading down.
Or, alternatively, a trail that would unfeasible to ride uphill.

nicklouse

most riders and bikes can manage most DH trails but slowly and maybe with dismounting.

DH riders dont ride they more fly.

docker0141

i'd say a downhill track is something that cant be ridden up.

xtreem

Evarything what Steve_b77 said.
So if you don't have at least 3ft drops, then even your carbon XC bike will hold up well.
EDIT \\ Well, if you're 10 stone-ish like me.

paul.skibum

DH tracks in and around morzine all have elements of rock slabs, drops (generally avoidable though), berms, steeps roots etc etc but they are all rideable on a hardtail - witness the Frnech National Course from Avoriz to Linderet, the old full length DH ocurse in Les Gets, the Chatel DH course, the Grande Conch swiss national course - my handjob has seen them all away with 100mm MX Comps, 2.3 tyres and a rear Magura Julie brake (M4 front) - not a DH bike but I walked nothing and didn't specifically enjoy them more on my Patriot although I did do them faster.

A DH bike is designed for these things but a DH course is just a track that goes down to my mind and is specifically designed to be ridden down rather than up.

P-Jay

DH is a funny catgory really.

IMHO DH riding is DH racing. I.E. Point A to point B between the tape, against the clock with very little or no climbing. The track is almost erelevent, as is the bike.You've got Urban DH which has almost none of the elements listed above, but its DH all the same. Most DH races are held on very tough courses, but not always.

You could, have a DH race at the downhill bit if an otherwise XC trail. The skill/element of competition is to get down faster than the next guy. If the track is the same for everyone it's stil a fair race.

What's an DH course? I guess whatever someone built to be a DH track. If I built one it would be wide open, fast, with a super smooth surface and big tabletops, jumps and berms. Some would say Errrug it's a glorified BMX track and build it supertech with tight steep corners, roots and slippery surfaces. I hate these becuase you feel like you're doing about 5mph and fighting the bike all the time. Both are right though.

The funny thing is.... I have a specific DH bike, I ride DH tracks, but I hate racing, takes away the fun element for me, so I don't really see myself as a DH'er. I bought the thing to ride faster stuff, harder and harder stuff faster. Someone once told me I was a freerider then... Well what's Freeride about following a man-made course? Isn't a freeride specific course a bit of an oxymoron?

In the words of Winston Churchill

"Don't stress about the name, Just ride it baby!!"

P-Jay

Got a bit lost in the moment then. I re-read the original post again 'typical' DH track...

Hmmm

About 2-4k long

About 800m down

15-20 'obsatcles' needing a broad spectrum of bike skills to master

At least 2 types of surface: Rocks/Mud/Gravel/Ice/Hardpack/ etc etc

At least one of each: Berms, Tight Corners, Fast Corners, Off camber corners and slippery corners.

Some element of off camber track.

There's always a big braking bit too.

Basically something with enough gravity to get you in trouble and as many elements to test as many bike handling skills as possible, cramed into a track ridable by intended user in under 5 mins to ensure it's a 'spint race'.

nicklouse

Mmm I wonder what the length and time is for the average National DH track?

supersonic

Not 800m descent, that is for sure!

P-Jay

OK I kinda guessed the measurements....

nicklouse

But it does depend on where you are.

but it still comes down to getting from top to bottom as fast as you can.

P-Jay

nicklouse wrote:

But it still comes down to getting from top to bottom as fast as you can.

Yep, that sums up, in one sentence what I was rambling on about in my own painkiler withdrawal induced insomina state.

supersonic

I suppose the reason for my question is questions of others - typically: I have 300 quid for a bike to ride to work and some downhill at the weekend. Makes it a bit difficult to recommend a bike ;-)

To me DH (downhill ;-)) is an extreme form of MTBing that takes in multiple large obstacles, big drops (maybe several feet), huge jumps and difficult terrain that can flow from one to another. Freeride may concentrate on just one aspect - a big drop. Riding down a hill aint always DH.

Length of track to me is a factor, but you can have short runs that really pack a punch.

nicklouse

length of track is nothing.

it is the time factor that makes it DH. remove the time and it is Freeride.

Like i said any one can ride down a DH track slowly on any bike.

But if you want to win.....

supersonic

I think I agree, but may have worded it a bit bad at the end! ie the singular aspect of FR in a time sense.

paul.skibum

Well they timed the old Rampage but that was freeride......

As for 800m - most world cup tracks dont have that amount of vertical on them!

bomberesque

I see where the Q comes from SS and so here's a suggestion;

put a glossary of terms in the FAQ that we can easily link to. Then, when someone asks for bike advice someone can say "have a look at this list of riding types; which ones are you interested in?"

doesn't need to be holy grail answer type stuff, just so we standardise the descriptions fo example;

DH; a purpose made DH track not designed to be ridden up (and usually impossible to). will contain jumps, drops etc at least 2-3 feet of air. Purpose built bikes will be going at pace, lighter bikes can be ridden but carefully with some skill and often requiring dismounting. Examples; Fort William, Morzine DH trails. White's level and Skyline descents are not DH tracks but trail descents, there are no obstacles big enough on them

Of course, only having ridden Afan a couple of times I could be wrong about that :roll:

note I took the vertical difference minimum out. pint taken about canberra and in the end a 50m descent can be DH if it's scary enough, but most I have ridden have been at least 250m vertical, usually between 300 and 1000, hence my comment

grumsta

Well they timed the old Rampage but that was freeride......

Freeride is about doing drops/jumps/tricks for fun, and people deliberately seek out drops etc rather than hitting the fastest line - as opposed to DH where doing jumps/drops is just a means to get down the hill as fast as possible.