Increasing cadence

mask of sanity

I've recently tried to increase my cadence in order to hopefully improve my base fitness and because of knee problems but I'm finding that I'm averaging a few mph slower then I would be if I were pushing a higher gear at a lower cadence. I just got back from a pretty flat 30 or so mile ride and my average was 18.3mph, which is lower then what I'd hope to achive on a hillier 60 mile ride :? Is this drop in speed to be expected and will my speed increase if I continue to go for a higher cadence or does it just prove that I'm not good at high cadence cycling?

Cheers, Rich.

CiB

We all have a natural cadence. Mine is a high-70s to low 80s average with a cruising comfort zone into the mid - high 90s, unless I make a conscious effort to spin faster. Aim to increase it by all means esp with knee issues lurking, but don't let it become your mantra.

18.3 is a reasonable avg speed for 30 miles, but so many factors can alter it that you'd be better off doing a few rides and seeing what the change is over time, and whether any change is attributable to your change in cadence. It may dip and then improve as you adjust to the change in riding style.

pianoman

Maybe you guys could try and convince a couple of the old riders at our club that the "natural cadence" is NOT just a myth!

They're always trying to tell the newbies to pedals fast (usually because the newbies are kids with Cheryl Cole-sized legs) and we don't want to tire the little kiddies out do we?!

Then there's people like me who get gassed when we pedal at 95rpm or more and quickly feel our hearts about to explode but.........change up a gear and it's all good, we just get those big legs pounding

But then again, I was 21 when I joined three years ago and one of the "old hands" still tried to turn me into a style of rider that I am not........."spin a low gear, get used to pedalling fast!" Cue a energy crash on the next group ride and the humilation of getting dropped. They got me once but........I'll get my revenge one day :twisted:

It's like comparing an F1 engine with a Le Mans car. Both can do a similar top speed, but the F1 car does it with a 2.4litre engine and 18,000rpm, the sports car has a far bigger engine size but can't rev anywhere near 18,000. The fact that the F1 car is lighter, more aero etc is quite beside the point. Also, don't forget a fast cadence uses up more fuel just like driving a road car in second gear at 40mph. Ka-BOOM :twisted:

I wouldn't have thought your knee would hurt JUST because of big gears, maybe big gears with a bad set-up. Are you far back enough on the saddle? Also, consider some supplements that ease joint pain and form new connective tissues (I think glucosamine chronodroitin is best for this) and overall, don't push yourself to the max on every ride, you need to recover and develop your fitness over time.

Good luck

skinson

Physiology
Low cadence cycling requires us to push harder on the pedals, but what does this mean at the level of our leg muscles? To generate that higher force contraction, your leg muscles must recruit more fast-twitch muscle fibers vs slow-twitch fibers.
Slow-twitch fibers:
Primarily burn fat for fuel, an almost limitless supply of fuel for even the leanest athlete.
Are very resistant to fatigue: they are built to go and go, all day.
Recover quickly when allowed to rest.
Fast-twitch fibers:
Burn glycogen for fuel. This glycogen is stored within the muscles and is in relative short supply, about 2000 calories for a well-trained, well-fueled athlete.
Fatigue quickly, are NOT built to go all day.
Take a long time to recover before they can be used again.
So it would seem the old timers were right?
Dave

pianoman

Or maybe we don't all have high rev limits like the pros do. Weren't even the pros astonished by Lance's TT in Metz in 1999 when they saw his cadence?

Everyone is built differently, so people will always go with what feels comfortable over a long ride. If you want to train for high cadence or leg power, by all means go for it.

The old timers idea will work great for some, but not for others.

Velonutter

Many Many years ago, I was trained by Pete Valentine who's belief was to twiddle.

As a School Boy & Junior class we were limited to 76" and 84", not sure if that still applies now, so the only way we could get the speed was to twiddle.

30 Years later and with a similar absence I find it easier to twiddle, but acknowledge that it does wear you out, but for weight loss is brilliant.

My cadence on a 49 mile run was an average of 87 and reached a maximum of 114!

I used to be a powerful bloke, but I don't know what it is I just find it easier using lower gearing, I do 20 miles at between 18-19 mph and yesterdays ride at around 16 mph, not brilliant I know, but give us a chance I have only been back on a bike 10 weeks!

Infamous

skinson wrote:

Physiology
Low cadence cycling requires us to push harder on the pedals, but what does this mean at the level of our leg muscles? To generate that higher force contraction, your leg muscles must recruit more fast-twitch muscle fibers vs slow-twitch fibers.
Slow-twitch fibers:
Primarily burn fat for fuel, an almost limitless supply of fuel for even the leanest athlete.
Are very resistant to fatigue: they are built to go and go, all day.
Recover quickly when allowed to rest.
Fast-twitch fibers:
Burn glycogen for fuel. This glycogen is stored within the muscles and is in relative short supply, about 2000 calories for a well-trained, well-fueled athlete.
Fatigue quickly, are NOT built to go all day.
Take a long time to recover before they can be used again.
So it would seem the old timers were right?
Dave

Can you explain how this bloke...

...wins all those ultra long distance events?

You use fast twitch fibres when sprinting, whatever cadence you happen to be using (although ironically we tend to sprint at a high cadence best).

mask of sanity

PianoMan wrote:

I wouldn't have thought your knee would hurt JUST because of big gears, maybe big gears with a bad set-up. Are you far back enough on the saddle? Also, consider some supplements that ease joint pain and form new connective tissues (I think glucosamine chronodroitin is best for this) and overall, don't push yourself to the max on every ride, you need to recover and develop your fitness over time.

I don't think it's just because of that but I reckon it's a factor. But I definitely over did it when I first started (went from riding about 10 miles a week to 120 as soon as I got the road bike...). That's why I want to try this higher cadence lark so that I can build up my base fitness but not have to cycle as many miles as I was doing before. I guess i'll have to monitor my performance over the next few weeks and see if I see any progress.