The come down

DonDaddyD

Roastie wrote:

As for the accelerative snappiness of the bike - it probably has much more to do with the wheels than the frame. Even a fairly basic alu frame can feel pretty snappy indeed with a decent wheelset.

Thank you for just an impartial and informative post. I was being worn thin.

As for wheels (I'm sure I mentioned this in my first post. I've got Fulcrum racing 5's on the Kuota and 7's on the Giant. Not much difference, I think. The Kuota is however designed to be quick and snappy, it also has a shorter wheelbase (and is a smaller bike) than my Giant, so all that (its design) coupled with the weight, frame material and groupest (I'm guessing Sora vs Ultegra sl) make my Kuota have more accelerating snap in my personal experience.... until someone tells me my experience is wrong...

DonDaddyD

oscarbudgie wrote:

With your carbon bike are you now able to average more than 15mph?

With my carbon bike I'm able to time travel there is a whole thread on it...

In another reality I rode to work, left at 5pm and am already home at the same time I originally posted this thread....

nigeve

Excuse a Newbie making a silly comment but would I be right in thinking lighter wheels will accelerate much quicker because there is less inertia to build up..? And equally will stop spinning with less effort as well…
Until a dirty great pot hole comes along and bends it out of shape

Clever Pun

oscarbudgie wrote:

With your carbon bike are you now able to average more than 15mph?

Ooof

It strikes me that DDD is a confidence rider, whatever makes him feel happier he'll put more into the ride however he justifies it

MonkeyMonster

DonDaddyD wrote:

until someone tells me my experience is wrong...

This is the domain of the AIM - your experience is always as wrong as the next persons when compared to the next post.

DonDaddyD

Clever Pun wrote:

oscarbudgie wrote:

With your carbon bike are you now able to average more than 15mph?

Ooof

It strikes me that DDD is a confidence rider, whatever makes him feel happier he'll put more into the ride however he justifies it

Shamefully +1!

TheStone

I have an old Giant OCR3 (I think similar to the SCR). Great bike, but the frame is very, very stiff.
You feel every little bump in the road.

On the flip side, I have a Litespeed Siena (titanium). Same setup, but higher groupset.
You don't feel like you're riding on the same roads.

Around 100km, one really hurts, the other is still a joy to ride.

hells

Back to the original question about having a come down. I have been riding my trek 1.7 road bike since moving to London, I went back to bristol and road the mtb trails there and in wales but forgot to bring baqck my cycle shoes meaning i have had to ride my mtb to work as it has flat pedals currently and dmr v8s would look stuypid on teh road bike. Both cost around the 1k marks and both are aluminium. I have concluded that road bikes are far far superior to mtbs for commuting. I feel more comfortable on a road bike, i can corner better on a road bike, im faster on a road bike, the road bike makes me ride a little psycho determined to overtake other cyclists (but not jump reds), the mtb makes me pootle and gives me no urges to push it. Unless i'm going off road and down something rocky at speed I vastly prefer my road bike anf wish I started road biking sooner. I can't wait till my mother posts my shoes back to me so I can get out on my roadie again. This has also got me wondering if cx will make me happiest of all as it has elements of both with a little running thrown in.

bigmat

On the fairly flat roads in London I don't think frame material makes a lot of difference. Weight can slow you down a bit, but saying that I'm not much quicker on my 7.5kg carbon Viner than I am on my 9.5kg alu Prorace, and have posted my record commute time on my 15kg steel Ridgeback. The acceleration suffers on the heavier bike, but good use of gears can compensate for a lot and once its up to speed it flies along. Hmm, not sure I'm adding a lot here but in conclusion - as long as the bike is oiled, the tyres are pumped and the wind is blowing the right way, the main differentiating factor is likely to be psychological.

greg66_tri_v2.0

nigeve wrote:

Excuse a Newbie making a silly comment but would I be right in thinking lighter wheels will accelerate much quicker because there is less inertia to build up..? And equally will stop spinning with less effort as well…
Until a dirty great pot hole comes along and bends it out of shape

That is correct.

Heavy, deep section wheels on a high quality hub will spin longer (like a flywheel). Light wheels are easier to spin up to speed. The trick is to make a wheel that's light without being flimsy - accelerating hard on a wheel made of a ring of wet spaghetti takes some skill.

rolf_f

hells wrote:

the mtb makes me pootle and gives me no urges to push it.

You must be doing something wrong then - any decent bike should be pushing you to use your last ounce of energy propelling it to where you want to go at which point you collapse in a sweat drenched heap. It should be saying 'I'm slow and I'm heavy but that road bike up ahead is going to eat my dust'. The advantage then is that when you do get on a light, quick bike, it flys like the wind even when stationery!

hells

I push myself on the mtb when offroad, especially through twisty singletrack and on descents just have no desire to atall on it when cycling on the road.

pastryboy

MatHammond wrote:

On the fairly flat roads in London I don't think frame material makes a lot of difference. Weight can slow you down a bit, but saying that I'm not much quicker on my 7.5kg carbon Viner than I am on my 9.5kg alu Prorace, and have posted my record commute time on my 15kg steel Ridgeback. The acceleration suffers on the heavier bike, but good use of gears can compensate for a lot and once its up to speed it flies along. Hmm, not sure I'm adding a lot here but in conclusion - as long as the bike is oiled, the tyres are pumped and the wind is blowing the right way, the main differentiating factor is likely to be psychological.

Agree with this, I have a <10kg cyclocross and a 14kg-ish hardtail. The difference speed-wise is pretty minor - highest speed I've ever hit on a flat was on the HT and haven't matched that on the CX yet. Acceleration much better on the lighter bike though.

DonDaddyD

Rolf F wrote:

hells wrote:

the mtb makes me pootle and gives me no urges to push it.

You must be doing something wrong then

This is classic Internet discussion.

I love it when one guy explains how he feels personally about something (in this case the comparision between his MTB and his Road Bike). And then someone posts him to tell him he's basically wrong...

Nothing personally, just found it funny...

DonDaddyD

Anywho, I hated my commute today. So going back on the Kharma tomorrow.

Also the rear mech is nearly horizontal (stretched) when I shifted down to the middle ring, the whole thing siezed up, but the freewheel kept spinning.

I want a new bike with Tiagra and a more racy riding position - possibly this time next year....

roger_merriman

mmm well I very much have a hack bike,

very differnet to my *sunday* bike, It is in almost every way a horrible ride but it's cheap transport for popping into town and rolling though the park to work. when it dies I'll probably just use the MTB which lives in the shed. for that sort of work a nice bike really isn't worth it.

roger_merriman

DonDaddyD wrote:

Anywho, I hated my commute today. So going back on the Kharma tomorrow.

Also the rear mech is nearly horizontal (stretched) when I shifted down to the middle ring, the whole thing siezed up, but the freewheel kept spinning.

I want a new bike with Tiagra and a more racy riding position - possibly this time next year....

maybe worth then just one bike? if you don't like the giant? do you have safe parking at work?

would save on servicing etc, two bikes.

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

Anywho, I hated my commute today. So going back on the Kharma tomorrow.

Also the rear mech is nearly horizontal (stretched) when I shifted down to the middle ring, the whole thing siezed up, but the freewheel kept spinning.

I want a new bike with Tiagra and a more racy riding position - possibly this time next year....

Are the roads in London steep?

Back on topic.

Close your eyes.

Imagine the Kharma with mudguards.

I think you should use the SCR for the winter, don't you?

stuaff

Well, I like riding the Viner (well, I will do once I actually get it back in working order..). I like the Jetstream. And I like the Cadenza. Yes, the Viner most of all, unsurprisingly, but they each have their own attributes....I just like riding my bikes. No angst. No 'Oh my god this bike sucks compared to my lovely Italian carbon masterpiece' (which will be c**p at some of the stuff the other two handle with ease).
Just stop whinging and get riding.......

DiggingDeeper

Rode my carbon to work for a year, thought I was wrecking it.
Got a winter trainer hack with full mudguards (bog standard Riblle ali), now I commute only on this.
Can't beat those mudguards on the Ribble in the winter and my times are just the same whatever bike I use (maybe that's marginal in favour of the carbon, but only because I think it must be faster and probably try harder to justify it.

I guess I am lucky, like both my bikes. I suggest the OP simply rides the Kharma till the commute kills it and then gets another better bike. Life's as hard as you make it I guess.

UndercoverElephant

The assertion that a more expensive bike might be more fun to ride than a cheaper one is completely alien to me, and goes against everything I've ever read on this forum. DDD, you are clearly a madman.

prawny

I've never even had a go on a carbon bike *sniff*

andy83

i wish i had two bikes to moan about

the day i ordered my road bike, my old bike which was going to be my hack got stolen and with holiday coming up and moving into new house no chance of getting another bike.

im that skint insurance payout had to pay for my holiday and replace all lights etc that i got nicked

DonDaddyD

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Anywho, I hated my commute today. So going back on the Kharma tomorrow.

Also the rear mech is nearly horizontal (stretched) when I shifted down to the middle ring, the whole thing siezed up, but the freewheel kept spinning.

I want a new bike with Tiagra and a more racy riding position - possibly this time next year....

Are the roads in London steep?

Back on topic.

Close your eyes.

Imagine the Kharma with mudguards.

I think you should use the SCR for the winter, don't you?

The SCR is for winter and general commuting (that's the intention but its so hard to say no to the Kharma...)

FYI, I switched to the middle ring because i was having horrendous chain rub, so wanted to check my gear indexing. As soon as I shifted down the cranks/chain/drivetrain siezed (though the freehub kept spinning luckily).

Same thing happened today...

sarajoy

DonDaddyD wrote:

FYI, I switched to the middle ring because i was having horrendous chain rub, so wanted to check my gear indexing. As soon as I shifted down the cranks/chain/drivetrain siezed (though the freehub kept spinning luckily).

Same thing happened today...

Look up "chain suck" - Sheldon mentions it and the site references another extensive page on it... It's a bit to do with wear - and oddly on new bikes occasionally, I get it very occasionally though it's happening with less frequency now so I'm hoping mine was a new-bike-problem...

DonDaddyD

You know going back to the (many) posts made about the differences between my two bikes and the differences I've found between them based on the properties used to create them, I actually don't thik anyone has a right to tell me I'm wrong considering they've never ridden the bikes I'm discussing.

Facts as I see them:

The Kharma is lighter, faster, stiffer, sharper, easier to handle and steer compared to the SCR, the Kharma is an all round better bike than the SCR.

For me they are both comfortable but for different reasons. The Kharma in some ways does provide a harsher ride but has less road vibration.

The Kharma reacts better and easier to sudden moments of acceleration and therefore accelerate faster than my SCR.

The Kharma has a greater sudden snap of acceleration. I am faster and can get to a faster top speed on my Kharma.

For the money I paid the SCR is without doubt a good a bike, brilliant for commuting and comfortable with its raised head tube.

These for me are not psychologically induced factors but physical ones having ridden each bike. Whether this applies to another on the same bike I cannot say.

There I've said it.

MonkeyMonster

DDD, how very dare put your own experience and opinions up and not expect us to rubbish them Seriously - what do you think the interweb is for if not telling people you've never met that their own brain is wrong.

I'd love to be able to get my brain to always insert imho before I say anything.

hells

Rolf F wrote:

hells wrote:

the mtb makes me pootle and gives me no urges to push it.

You must be doing something wrong then - any decent bike should be pushing you to use your last ounce of energy propelling it to where you want to go at which point you collapse in a sweat drenched heap. It should be saying 'I'm slow and I'm heavy but that road bike up ahead is going to eat my dust'. The advantage then is that when you do get on a light, quick bike, it flys like the wind even when stationery!

That is precisly my point, the road bike is alot lighter and has bigger wheels than the mtb. The mtb has forks with 5 inches of travel and currently equppied with mud tyres, it weighs 27lbs. I used to commute on it all the time in hilly Bath as a student but have grown accomstomed to an aluminium framed carbon forked road bike with completely slick tyres in London. The mtb excells offroad as it should do, the road bike excells on the road as it should do. DDD was chatting about his experience going from one bike to another whilst commuting, I am jsut agreeing with him after riding a road bike for a few months on the road and then having to ride an off road race bike on road. Two very different machines resulting in me adopting different cycling styles on the road. Also I don't always want to ride like a mentalist after doing the 5th 14 hour night shift in a row, the pootle on the mtb has been a welcome change but i am still looking forward to getting on my road bike again.