chain life?

dieselgeezer

How long should a well maintained 10 speed chain (Ultegra or similar quality) last? Also, does using a new chain on a used cassette shorten the life of the new chain? The cassette isn't worn to the extent that the new chain skips. I use a chain checker & am pushed to get 1000 miles out of a chain. Even tried a £40 Wipperman thinking it would go further but this only lasted 1200 miles. Any thoughts?

dodgy

I used to get about 800 miles out of Ultegra, changing the chain when it showed as 0.75 worn according to my Park chain checking tool. But since I've lost a bit of weight and got fitter this year (I've been cycling a long time but this year put a lot of extra effort in) I find a chain lasts me about 1200 miles. I don't put this down not to less weight, it's possibly because I'm now further down the block more therefore a straighter chainline which is more sympathetic to the mechanical components in the chain and cassette.

My chain is always immaculate, it gets cleaned after every ride with a rag and lubed with (my personal preference) Finish Line Krytech wax.

There are so many variations with this subject though, where you live (hills = more stress on chain, sandy conditions (near the coast)), how you ride, how much you clean your chain, ride in the wet etc etc.

sturmey

I really think a chain should last a LOT longer than 800 miles. Granted, it will be showing some discernible wear at this mileage but I can't see that a well-maintained chain would need to be thrown away after such a short mileage. It would cost too much in the first place.Like over £100 per year just in chains.


In fact next time your 800 miles is up do you mind sending me your old chain?

dodgy

Sorry, not getting your point Sturmey. Are you saying that either I've miscalculated my mileage (I haven't, because I track my chain and tyre as a component of my bike in Sporttracks) or are you saying that my chain checker is wrong?

As I said, some people can go through chains quicker than others. There are so many permuations to factor in (rider strength - how many watts you can put out, weather, maintenance).

Whatever, my chains HAVe worn after 800 miles, enough to be assessed as such by my Park chain checker anyway. That's good enough for me.

You're welcome to rifle through my bins if you want

freehub

I clean my chain on a regular basis and I'm over 2800 miles on it atm, I had it checked about 300 miles ago and it was still not worn. And I'm most certainly not a weak rider and I put the power down sometimes and do lots of hills and I don't cancel a ride if it's forecasted for rain, unless it's the day after I just cleaned my bike properly.

sturmey

Dodgy - I admire your high standards of maintenance. All I'm saying is that whatever the instruments tell you, if the chain is still free of corrosion, no stiff links and not causing any transmission problems I would keep it clean and carry on with it. Certainly for a lot longer than you are doing.

desweller

sturmey wrote:

All I'm saying is that whatever the instruments tell you, if the chain is still free of corrosion, no stiff links and not causing any transmission problems I would keep it clean and carry on with it. Certainly for a lot longer than you are doing.

+1

I'm not convinced by the % wear replacement limit that is generally recommended. Where is the evidence to support it? I've ridden chains to a far greater wear level. You usually have to replace the cassette at the same time so what's the advantage of binning it early?

balthazar

DesWeller wrote:

I'm not convinced by the % wear replacement limit that is generally recommended. Where is the evidence to support it? I've ridden chains to a far greater wear level. You usually have to replace the cassette at the same time so what's the advantage of binning it early?

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/chain-care.html

desweller

balthazar wrote:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/chain-care.html

That's not evidence, just a cyclist's opinion. I know that the vast majority of the content on Sheldon's site is reliable, but I'd like to see some yield test data or something that shows that chain failure becomes much more likely above 1% before I concede that it's a valid recommendation for shelling out on a new chain.

dieselgeezer

Thanks for your thoughts so far BUT no-one has mentioned the bit about a new chain on a used (but not worn out) cassette.

freehub

Just put a new chain on, if it does not skip then it's fine, if the cassette is worn you'll know about it cause when you put power down the chain will just skip.

Airwave

I usualy get 2-3000 miles out of each chain.I rotate three chains after 300miles or so.When these chains are worn out i change the cassette&chainring if thats worn too.Buying three chains&a cassette together saves money in the long run&you have no worries if one breaks(not happened in 20yrs of cycling)whoops now i should'nt have said that should i.Cycling's expensive enough anyway without chucking perfectly good gear away!

dieselgeezer

Sorry, didn't get that one across very clearly. Should have said will a new chain wear out quicker on a used cassette as opposed to a new cassette & how much mileage difference is it likely to make??

freehub

I don't think the chain will wear out any quicker on a used cassette, read my last post. I'm not sure on mileage difference.

desweller

Don't think the chain will wear out any quicker, if it's not skipping.

nickwill

DesWeller wrote:

[
I'm not convinced by the % wear replacement limit that is generally recommended. Where is the evidence to support it? I've ridden chains to a far greater wear level. You usually have to replace the cassette at the same time so what's the advantage of binning it early?

But if you change your chain more regularly you should get much more wear from your cassette and chain rings. I only change my cassette about every three chains.

neeb

If you change your chain when it is 0.75% worn, you can get three chains out of one cassette. If you keep the same chain on until both the cassette and chain are worn out, it may last 3 times longer (or more, or less...), but you will wear your chainrings out faster, because for much of the time you will be running a chain that it is more than 0.75% worn. A "longer" worn steel chain will pretty quickly wear the alloy teeth on your chainrings into sharks fins... Assuming for the sake of argument that you get about the same life out of the cassette either way, I reckon it's worth the cost of a couple of extra chains to make expensive (and often difficult to get hold of) chainrings last longer.

andrew_s

% wear should be measured with a ruler, not a chain checker.

Chain checkers wrongly include roller slop and roller wear in what they measure, but these have no effect on the elongation of the chain. Checkers are quick and simple to use, and good for an "it's still OK" indication, but if you rely on them for deciding when to throw a chain away you can end up wasting money by throwing the chain out too early. Some chains will show as worn out even when new (according to Chris Juden anyway).

The normal rule is that 1% elongation is the point at which a new chain will slip on the old cassette, and that 0.5% is the point at which the cassette starts to wear.
If you put a new chain on a cassette that's worn, but not so worn that the chain slips, the chain wears faster until it catches up with the state of wear of the cassette. If you start with a new chain and cassette, and change at 0.75% stretch, the second chain will reach that limit quicker than the first one did.

andrew_s

Airwave wrote:

I usualy get 2-3000 miles out of each chain.I rotate three chains after 300miles or so.When these chains are worn out i change the cassette&chainring if thats worn too.Buying three chains&a cassette together saves money in the long run&you have no worries if one breaks(not happened in 20yrs of cycling)whoops now i should'nt have said that should i.Cycling's expensive enough anyway without chucking perfectly good gear away!

I reckon that this is the cheapest method in the long run.
The only problem is that if you go off on an 1000 mile cycling holiday, you can find that the next chain in the rotation slips when you put it on after getting back.

nmcgann

andrew_s wrote:

% wear should be measured with a ruler, not a chain checker.
......
The normal rule is that 1% elongation is the point at which a new chain will slip on the old cassette, and that 0.5% is the point at which the cassette starts to wear.
....

In old units, when 12" measured pin centre-centre on a new chain has increased by 1/16" it's time to think about a new chain to minimise cassette wear. By the time it's got to 1/8" the cassette is likely to need replacing with the chain.

I use 1x chain per year on my main 2 bikes (winter road bike+summer road bike, both 9-speed) which fits well with how they are used - when the bike gets mothballed with the change of seasons it gets a good clean and the old chain gets replaced. They have both usually got to the 1/16" point or just over by the end of the season if I am doing my "normal" mileage.

I don't know exactly how many miles the 1/16" point corresponds to, but I'd guess around 3000 for me. I'm just starting the 3rd chain on the same cassette on my winter bike and it's running fine. (I never spend more than £20 on a chain and I'm currently using KMC X9-93 chains that I was paying £15 for, but are now £11 at Parkers :roll: )

Neil

dodgy

andrew_s wrote:

% wear should be measured with a ruler, not a chain checker.

Chain checkers wrongly include roller slop and roller wear in what they measure, but these have no effect on the elongation of the chain. Checkers are quick and simple to use, and good for an "it's still OK" indication, but if you rely on them for deciding when to throw a chain away you can end up wasting money by throwing the chain out too early. Some chains will show as worn out even when new (according to Chris Juden anyway).

The normal rule is that 1% elongation is the point at which a new chain will slip on the old cassette, and that 0.5% is the point at which the cassette starts to wear.
If you put a new chain on a cassette that's worn, but not so worn that the chain slips, the chain wears faster until it catches up with the state of wear of the cassette. If you start with a new chain and cassette, and change at 0.75% stretch, the second chain will reach that limit quicker than the first one did.

These are very good points, I do have vernier calipers which I could use to measure pin centre to centre instead of the park tool chain checker, from time to time.

FWIW, I am still on the original (and rather expensive) Dura Ace cassette on my bike, and I've worked out that even though I've been changing the chain arguably early, I'm still ahead of the game financially, despite going through 4 chains. No sign of slippage whatsoever when I put a new chain on.

if Shimano kit comes down in price again, my practices might change. It's mostly a question of maths/costs really.

Tom Butcher

I reckon I use a couple of new chains a year and normally do about 6k miles so roughly 3k miles per chain. My chain checker instructions reckoned 1% was the time to change a chain rather than .75.

Chain rings I'm not sure how many I get through - maybe one new set in the last 3 years so it can't be many. Don't seem to need to get new cassettes all that often either - and I buy mid range rather than Chorus or Record so if I am wearing them out a little quicker than I might I reckon it would be offset by not having to buy 3 times as many chains.

dieselgeezer

Many thanks to all you guys & in particular neeb & andrew s.
I put a tape measure to the chain that my Rolhoff checker said was worn out & it showed a stretch of only 0.1%, way below the 0.5% max.
The Rolhoff has been binned!!

dodgy

Interesting test dieselgeezer, one which I will repeat!