Lemond
northernneil
Posts: 1,549
does anyone else think that although his anti-doping stance is admirable the fact that he was riding and riding well in the 80's and early 90's added to the fact he won his most famous victory against a guy who has admitted was doped - does the phrase "thou dost protest to much" come to your mind as well as mine ?
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northernneil wrote:does anyone else think that although his anti-doping stance is admirable the fact that he was riding and riding well in the 80's and early 90's added to the fact he won his most famous victory against a guy who has admitted was doped - does the phrase "thou dost protest to much" come to your mind as well as mine ?
Yes, but not many folk on here agree.0 -
People like him need encouragement. But he sometimes gets carried away, his use of VAM data in the Tour was quite flawed.0
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Roscobob wrote:northernneil wrote:does anyone else think that although his anti-doping stance is admirable the fact that he was riding and riding well in the 80's and early 90's added to the fact he won his most famous victory against a guy who has admitted was doped - does the phrase "thou dost protest to much" come to your mind as well as mine ?
Yes, but not many folk on here agree.
I tend to agree also. I would question his motives in his behavior over the last few years.
But, people will do what they will.0 -
Kléber wrote:People like him need encouragement. But he sometimes gets carried away, his use of VAM data in the Tour was quite flawed.
Agreed. You can have an opinion and be active in your remarks and analysis, but sometimes he should step back and think before he makes those accusations which have turned out to be pretty useless.Contador is the Greatest0 -
There we go, we can forget all this fancy chemical testing malarkey, let's just decide who's doping by popular vote!Roscobob wrote:northernneil wrote:does anyone else think that although his anti-doping stance is admirable the fact that he was riding and riding well in the 80's and early 90's added to the fact he won his most famous victory against a guy who has admitted was doped - does the phrase "thou dost protest to much" come to your mind as well as mine ?
Yes, but not many folk on here agree.0 -
I dont think Lemond doped. I cant remember any of his team mates implicating him - I just think he was a classy clean rider.
If I was clean - (er I am) I'd be kicking up a fuss over doped riders - but maybe we're all getting tired of it ?0 -
Riders like Boardman and Obree were invited to 'participate' in riding using drugs and opted out. Neither of them shouted loudly about it because they couldn't/wouldn't be heard Roert Millar must have come up against some riders whose ability was 'boosted' but has chosen to say nothing. Dan Martin alluded to riding at different levels in ProCycling last yearM.Rushton0
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frenchfighter wrote:Kléber wrote:People like him need encouragement. But he sometimes gets carried away, his use of VAM data in the Tour was quite flawed.
Agreed. You can have an opinion and be active in your remarks and analysis, but sometimes he should step back and think before he makes those accusations which have turned out to be pretty useless.
and yet if he was making those kind of flawed arguements against Lance you would the first one banging the drum in support of him .But hey its Bertie here ................Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
mrushton wrote:Dan Martin alluded to riding at different levels in ProCycling last year
That probably comes from serving his apprenticeship in France and hearing all about 'cyclisme a deux vitesses'0 -
mrushton wrote:Riders like Boardman and Obree were invited to 'participate' in riding using drugs and opted out. Neither of them shouted loudly about it because they couldn't/wouldn't be heard Roert Millar must have come up against some riders whose ability was 'boosted' but has chosen to say nothing. Dan Martin alluded to riding at different levels in ProCycling last year
Millar tested positive...0 -
mwo wrote:
He certainly did. As 'In Search of...' makes clear he had his own prepatore with an innovative view on dopage.
Back to the OP, I'm not sure the fact he beat Fignon is to be taken as any evidence on Lemond. The Prof lost that TdF good and proper himself.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
calvjones wrote:mwo wrote:
He certainly did. As 'In Search of...' makes clear he had his own prepatore with an innovative view on dopage.
Back to the OP, I'm not sure the fact he beat Fignon is to be taken as any evidence on Lemond. The Prof lost that TdF good and proper himself.
You are probably right but its amusing how different standards are applied to different riders it goes like this ........Lance's opponents were all doping so to beat them he must have doped as well . Greg Lemonds opponents were doping (specifically fignon) but he beat them by not doping himself.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
That is rather disingenuous. Lemond's VO2 max, measured before Epo was even on the scene, was in the low 90's, giving him ample natural ability to beat the dopers. On the other hand Armstrong's published VO2 max was 82.4, which was rather unexceptional for a pro cyclist and meant that there were plenty of clean riders about who should have beaten him, never mind those also benefiting from the large advantage to be had from using Epo.Moray Gub wrote:You are probably right but its amusing how different standards are applied to different riders it goes like this ........Lance's opponents were all doping so to beat them he must have doped as well . Greg Lemonds opponents were doping (specifically fignon) but he beat them by not doping himself.0 -
calvjones wrote:.
Back to the OP, I'm not sure the fact he beat Fignon is to be taken as any evidence on Lemond. The Prof lost that TdF good and proper himself.
I don't agree and "know" now that if Fignon had had the use of Tri Bars (?) he would never have lost the 58 secs and would have won that TDF.
How do I know, well I've seen all the improvements since then, of every day racing cyclists with Tri Bars. (or whatever you call them)Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
BikingBernie wrote:
That is rather disingenuous. Lemond's VO2 max, measured before Epo was even on the scene, was in the low 90's, giving him ample natural ability to beat the dopers. On the other hand Armstrong's published VO2 max was 82.4, which was rather unexceptional for a pro cyclist and meant that there were plenty of clean riders about who should have beaten him, never mind those also benefiting from the large advantage to be had from using Epo.Moray Gub wrote:You are probably right but its amusing how different standards are applied to different riders it goes like this ........Lance's opponents were all doping so to beat them he must have doped as well . Greg Lemonds opponents were doping (specifically fignon) but he beat them by not doping himself.
Never mind the "Should have beaten him" as they nearly always did beat him before cancer.
But like they say you can't loose them all. Sorry win isn't it but that's incorrect also.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
Lemond himself has admitted to the advantage his Tri-bars gave him. He also admitted that where Fignon really lost the Tour was the day on the Alp d' Huez when he cracked and Fignon failed to act on the orders of his team manager (Cyrille Guimard) and attack. Lemond blew completely and Guimard knew that the Tour was Fignon's for the taking and tried to get past the team car with Lemond's team manager in it, who wouldn't let him, with the two bouncing off each other's bodywork. By the time Guimard did get past and instructed Fignon to attack there was only a couple of km to go and enough time had passed to enable Lemond to limit his losses to one and half minutes.deejay wrote:if Fignon had had the use of Tri Bars (?) he would never have lost the 58 secs and would have won that TDF. How do I know, well I've seen all the improvements since then, of every day racing cyclists with Tri Bars. (or whatever you call them)
http://www.competitorradio.com/details.php?show=210 -
I remember that look Lemond had when he cracked and lost the pace and the agony of his searching for another rider to Wheelsuck. He Found one I seem to remember.
The banging cars I don't remember seeing but my thoughts in the following days about the recovery he made to be more competitive.
I think we were all a bit Nieve about drugs at that time.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720
