ok just how hard are the alps ?

northernneil

I go skiing 2 or 3 times a year and therefore have driven up loads of passes and seen the roads but I know that rarely do they get anywhere near as steep as the climbs I do all the time in the t'dales. So my question is how would I fair - a guy who regularly goes up steep climbs which last maybe 2-3km but seem to be like 18-20% compare with doing a 22km at 7% average ?

I know it would be hard but is it more of a case of sitting down and getting into a smoother rhythm for longer rather than first gear and bouncing off the hoods like I normally do ?

heavymental

Pretty much right. I reckon anyone with reasonable fitness and suitable gearing who's able to comfortably cycle up a hill at home is going to be ok in the alps. Its just a case of getting into the right mindset. You might be going uphill for 25km so obviously thats a bit different to surging over the odd 2k bump you get in Britain but as long as your legs and lungs are up to it you'll be fine. Of course, you might not be the fastest in the world but you'll get up there eventually. Unless you're a purely flat land rider with a belly who can't handle the hills you shouldn't be put off going to the Alps. The riding is beautiful. Hell, even if you are you should go and struggle up the inclines to inspire you to get on the hills and go back another time. If you can get out there, go.

hammerite

I live in the flatlands in the UK but have managed to ride up some passes in the Alps. I very rarely get chance to ride anything over 10% that's longer than 1/2 mile. I find it's a case of rhythm, you just have to settle in at a comfortable pace, as HeavyM says with sensible gearing and most people will be fine.

I've not really tried stringing a few different passes together though so I'm not sure how I would cope if I did a ride of 2 or 3 passes.

airborne_warrior

Though it goes without saying that if you weigh 15 stones like me, no matter how fit you are the hills are going to hurt.

sneakerfreaker

This weekend I did an 11km climb at 6% (12% max) average in Gruyere. This was my first major climb outside of the UK and you really can't prepare for that here, just climb lots of hills and do repeats. It's not as hard as it sounds, you just get into the groove and spin your way up.

pneumatic

For me, riding up alpine passes is primarily about endurance. You have to realise at the outset that you will be pedalling for two hours or more with constant pressure on your legs (how much depends on your gearing, but most road bikes have the range to cope with 10-12% gradients) and with no freewheeling, easing off (except on the outside of hairpins) or free choice of pace such as you get on a flat or undulating ride.

The best preparation I have found for it is on a turbo trainer or exercise bike, where, again, you just have to keep turning the cranks. Imagine a 2 hour session in the gym and you get the idea!!

The other challenge is fuel. I completely messed up the first time I rode in the Alps by taking my usual one flapjack and 650mls of water up three 1600meter cols. Oh dear! Bonk city, and it took days to recover. You need the calories on them there hills.

The up-side is that the scenery can be fabulous and the sense of achievement when you hit the summits is thrilling.

mrushton

Heat/cold, distance, gradient,gears,fitness really come into play. Each affects the rest and tie in nutrition/hydration with those. The climbs aren't a problem if you approach them sensibly. You accept you go at your own pace and you'll get to the top.

teagar

I think you're all forgetting the mental side.

Going up a mountain at any reasonable pace on a bike is sheer mental torture. At least, that's what I found.

You're pushing your body so much harder and for so longer. The climbs just seem utterly relentless. At least, that's my Pyrenean experience.

I've heard the Alpes are easier to find a rhythm on, but I doubt it's too different.

I thought it was just like a longer version of the climbs I did in the peaks, but less steep, but I found that to be trully wrong. They're not comparable at all. As for scoffing at 7%....

If it's over 8% for more than a kilometre you really really feel it, let alone for over 15..

They're trully tough, and they make you push your body to the limits.

zippypablo

Get a compact if you don't already have one.
Less likely to grind up the hills then.
I find the Alps are ok if you can get into a nice steady pace.
One of my friends who has been to the Alps with me twice found that he could get into a rhythm on the Alpine climbs but struggled on some of the short steep climbs in the White Rose classic.
If you cycle round the Dales, you can do the Alps, just do them at your own pace.
Agree with pneumatic about fuel.

balthazar

I think you'll be well equipped. I live in Cornwall, which is all short savage climbs as well. Whenever I've ridden in Continental mountains I've only suffered if I tried to keep the exhaustive effort up that I'm used to at home. Keep the pace less aggressive and find a rhythm and just watch the climb tick by. Mountain pass climbing is by some margin my favourite kind of cycling, up and down. You'll love it, have fun.

northernneil

cheers chaps, confidence now boosted, I am 6 foot and 72kg and ride a triple ring so climbing is kinda my bag but obviously there is nothing to compared to an alp in the uk so was looking for advice and you helped, cheers

term1te

sneakerfreaker wrote:

This weekend I did an 11km climb at 6% (12% max) average in Gruyere. This was my first major climb outside of the UK and you really can't prepare for that here, just climb lots of hills and do repeats. It's not as hard as it sounds, you just get into the groove and spin your way up.

Was this in the Gruyere cycling tour? I did that ride on Sunday, beautiful day for it, if only I didn't get cramp (for the first time ever) on the last decent, I had to stop and hop around for a while. Then the barriers came down on the rail crossing about 500 m from the end! I’ll be back next year on my quest to get under 4 hours.

Back on subject. With the very long Alpine climbs it is a sustained effort required for maybe 90 minutes. So training should be focused on this. The problem with the rolling UK countryside is that there are lots of short hills followed by short descents, so it tends to be more like interval training. A good flat TT course probably gives the best opportunity for training with a sustained effort. So bizarrely, I'd recommend training on the flat for an attack on the Alps.

BornAgainCyclist

Another factor which must be taken into account is the lack of Oxygen - quite noticeable over 2500 feet and becoming a major factor over 5000 feet

Wallace1492

Get up to the Bealach Na Ba in Scotland and see the closest thing to an alpine climb in the UK. It is about 6 miles of climbing, with some small respite.
Problem as well is that you quote an average of 7% for 22km, and you think you do 18-20% for a couple of km, I bet on your rides the 18-20% is for a very short spell on the 2 km climb. In the Alps for the bigger climbs they can get up to 25% for short stetches and average 15% for several km which makes it a tough climb, unlike anything in UK, apart from the one I mention above. Remember 7% is the AVERAGE.

A decent level of fitness will certainly help, as will a triple, as I know to my cost when attempting Alp D'huez a few years ago, I assumed that gears that got me over the Campsies and around the hills in central Scotland (and indeed Bealach Na Ba) would suffice, but the sheer relentessness of the Alps is easy to underestimate.

The views however are stunning and the downhills amazing.

guinea

I trained from a very low base of fitness and went on to climb all the famous alpine climbs in the last couple of years.

I didn't go up any hills during training. All I did was 1hr TTs and longer rides at tempo.

An hour doing laps in my local park at full whack is far harder than an hour climbing Alpe d'Huez.

term1te

BornAgainCyclist wrote:

Another factor which must be taken into account is the lack of Oxygen - quite noticeable over 2500 feet and becoming a major factor over 5000 feet

Do you mean m? 2500 foot is only 762 m. I've cycled at over 2500 m, (8000 ft), without feeling the lack of oxygen.

robthehungrymonkey

Heavymental wrote:

...Unless you're a purely flat land rider with a belly who can't handle the hills...

Bugger.

cougie

I think I prefer the Alps to the shorter steeper climbs in North Wales.

passout

Went MTBing in Swiss once.........hard! Like a big hill here, but much bigger - often very long steady climbs on road.

dennisn

teagar wrote:

I think you're all forgetting the mental side.

Going up a mountain at any reasonable pace on a bike is sheer mental torture. At least, that's what I found.

You're pushing your body so much harder and for so longer. The climbs just seem utterly relentless. At least, that's my Pyrenean experience.

I've heard the Alpes are easier to find a rhythm on, but I doubt it's too different.

I thought it was just like a longer version of the climbs I did in the peaks, but less steep, but I found that to be trully wrong. They're not comparable at all. As for scoffing at 7%....

If it's over 8% for more than a kilometre you really really feel it, let alone for over 15..

They're trully tough, and they make you push your body to the limits.

+1

If you're only doing a one day ride it shouldn't be a problem. You will make it. Just don't underestimate how long and how slow you may have to go to make it to the top. Plenty of climbs start to seem never ending after a while and can really make you question what you're doing and why. For many people it's not quite as simple as just saying "I can do this". If you're going to be climbing on multiple days I find that it seems to get easier as the days go by. Of course that will depend on what easier means to you. For me it means slightly less torturous than the day before. Stick to a pace that you can maintain and don't try to hammer with the big dogs. Good luck.

inaperfectworld

also don't plan too much in the day: i'd plan on just one big fella a day if you are not sure that you will cope. and plan a rest day after first 4 days. it's doing it day after day which gets sapping. one big climb is probably 2 hours climbing and descending is not as fast in terms of average speed as you might think as the hairpins are 6 to 8 miles an hour (at least for me maybe i'm pretty cautious but i'm 55 and aware that i'm alone and that cyclists are killed each year)

Clum84

As someone already said, I think the alps are more reliant on mental strength than physical. I bought my first road bike last year and cycled from paris to turin. Being of only average fitness (not a patch on the fitness of most folk on these forums) and somewhat fatigued by the time i got to the alps i attempted my first climb on a road bike.....the 2473m col du grand st bernard :shock: Whilst it was undoubtedly an extremely physically demanding ordeal for me, the real fight was not deciding to give up at any point on the 40 odd mile route from martigny over to aosta( and believe me, i though about it with every turn of the cranks!). So as long as you're not a complete lard merchant and have the right mental attitude then you'll be fine with the biggest of climbs.........maybe not in record times, but you'll get there. Theres always the epic decents on the other side to look forward to!

BigG67

As with the debate on the Sportives section it's all dependant on what you find hard or easy.

Plenty of people can sit in an twiddle away on 7%-12% for 1hour or more but hate the hard 15%+ for 20mins. While some power riders are happier driving up a hill knowing that it'll be over soon.

So as with all cycling it's all about the balance of your power to weight ratio, CV endurance, local muscle endurance, feeding and mental approach.

inaperfectworld

re training,you need a decent level of fitness and i agree with guinea, and although i haven't got a turbo trainer, i have found it best to go out at least 4 to 5 times a week for maybe1 hour and to push it more than you would ordinarily do. when the gradient gets up to 10% in the alps you'll be pushing on the pedals unless you have really low gears, so think of trying to simulate that
doing things on successive days mimics what you will be doing on tour i.e. doing it one day then another day ,then another.
i went last year and prepared with hill repeats ,but i don't think they were as much use to me as a 5 day tour in scotland i did about a month before.