Ti v's Carbon

fungus_the_muffin_man
fungus_the_muffin_man Posts: 1,608
edited September 2009 in Road buying advice
I've been looking at lots of bikes and I've come across a Van Nicholas Euro with full ultegra for £1499. And also the Planet x ti for £1999.
What advantages do these have over Carbon? Does the performance of the bike make up for the larger weight difference? How would it cope on hills compared to a much lighter Carbon? Would I see a huge difference?

Hope you can help guys.
Bianchi. There are no alternatives only compromises!
I RIDE A KONA CADABRA -would you like to come and have a play with my magic link?

Comments

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Carbon isn't much lighter.

    You wouldn't notice it.

    I have a Ti and a Carbon road bike, I love them both but the Ti is the everyday beater...
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    All depends how they're put together. A ti frame will be sturdier ifyou have a habit of dropping things onto it. Dunno if thats any help ?
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Depends on what you're type of riding you're into too - I have a carbon and titanium bikes too. Generally, carbon is better if your preference is for faster riding / racing and where getting power onto the road is the priority where IME titanium is better for longer rides in all conditions as it is better for minimising road buzz. If you plan on travelling with the bike; keeping it for a long time or are a complete klutz with a spanner I'd choose titanium too.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    I have a titanium bike but a carbon fork, go figure... :wink:
  • allen
    allen Posts: 214
    Where have you seen the Van Nich at that price ?
  • I've seen the Van nicholas for under £1500 but that was with 105. That's a great deal if you can get Ultegra (even if I'd choose Centaur) but check the finishing kit e.g. tyres is good before choosing to buy, or get the upgrade put on where appropriate.
  • Van Nicholas Euros £1499 from Edinburgh cycles size 54cm only. How does this look for kit on it?

    Colour Bright Hand Brushed
    Frame Van Nicholas Euros Titanium
    Fork Reynolds Ouzo Comp Fork, 11/8",43mm rake
    Headset FSA Orbit MX Headset, 11/8", Black
    RearHub Fulcrum Racing 7 Wheel Set,
    FrontHub Fulcrum Racing 7 Wheel Set,
    Spokes Fulcrum Racing 7 Wheel Set,
    Rims Fulcrum Racing 7 Wheel Set,
    Tire Continental Ultra Race, 700 x 23c, Black
    ShiftLevers Shimano Ultegra ST-6600 STI shifters
    Front Derailleur Shimano Ultegra FD-6600 Front Derailleur
    Rear Derailleur Shimano Ultegra RD-6600 Rear Derailleur
    Cassette Shimano Ultegra CS-6600 Cassette, 12-25T
    Chain KMC DX10 10spd. Chain with Powerlink
    Crankset Shimano Ultegra 10spd Crank Set, 172.5mm
    Bottom Bracket Shimano Ultegra 10spd Crank Set, 172.5mm
    Seatpost Van Nicholas Seat Post 300mm Black
    Seat Van Nicholas Leather Saddle, Ti Rails
    Bar Van Nicholas Anatomic Road Bar, 42cm
    Stem Van Nicholas VNT Stem Black, 110mm x 85
    Grips Van Nicholas Handlebar Tape, Black
    Brakes Shimano Ultegra BR-6600 Brake Set
    Brake Levers Shimano Ultegra ST-6600 STI shifters
    Bianchi. There are no alternatives only compromises!
    I RIDE A KONA CADABRA -would you like to come and have a play with my magic link?
  • Looks really good!

    You could stick with that setup through the winter and then, if you wanted to race on it, get some rocket-ship wheels such as Fulcrum 3's or Reynolds Solitudes, stick some superlight slicks on and you have a bike for all seasons, with different parts as and when you need them :P

    Oh yes, and ask the bank manager about getting the money for some tri bars once you've finished spending :twisted:
  • I've had a plethora of Ti bikes over these last 3 years and yep, true to form they are long-lasting, comfortable and you can ride them in all weathers and not have to worry that the frame's going to get ruined (pity the same can't be said about alloy components though!).

    However, when the weather's good and I feel like a 'blast' or want to try to keep up with the 'faster' club guys I'd choose one of my carbon bikes every time as they just put the power down much better than the Titanium bikes I've ridden! You don't have to go for an expensive Carbon bike either to have the same pleasure - my Carbon frameset cost £375 and it's a Rocket Ship! Climbing actually seems like a pleasure sometimes and I weigh 85kgs!

    My Ti bikes can, and have taken a beating though whereas I worry about the slightest knock on my Carbon bike. Probably needlessly, because so far, it's been solid enough - but you never know...

    Coincidentally, I've got both the Van Nicholas Euros, (well, a Airborne Lancer which is exactly the same really) and a Planet X ti and I'd advise you to go for the Van Nicholas as it's cheaper, and, IMO rides better than the Planet X. IF YOU MUST HAVE TITANIUM THAT IS! If you want my advice I'd go for a cheaper Ribble Deda Nero Corsa, or even a Planet X Carbon as it'll have more bang per buck and will probably last 10 years or more if looked after...
    let all your saddles be comfy and all your rides less bumpy....
  • I'd go for a cheaper Ribble Deda Nero Corsa
    :shock:
    or even a Planet X Carbon
    A nice looking bike. Someone was riding it on the Bill Bradley ride with something similar to the Veloce build-up available at GB Cycles at the moment (£999 I think).
    My Ti bikes can, and have taken a beating though whereas I worry about the slightest knock on my Carbon bike

    Fine if that doesn't affect your speed and confidence to bomb it round corners in groups and on time trials, I think I'd be a bit different given my wobbly tendencies in bunched sprints or flying round corners on tri bars :P
  • I've had a plethora of Ti bikes over these last 3 years and yep, true to form they are long-lasting, comfortable and you can ride them in all weathers and not have to worry that the frame's going to get ruined (pity the same can't be said about alloy components though!).

    Other than crashing due to the wet I wasn't aware that the bad weather would ruin a carbon frame or that they don't last :?

    A nightmare if true as I've recently invested in carbon (although sensibility says that can't be true).
  • aracer
    aracer Posts: 1,649
    PianoMan wrote:
    My Ti bikes can, and have taken a beating though whereas I worry about the slightest knock on my Carbon bike

    Fine if that doesn't affect your speed and confidence to bomb it round corners in groups and on time trials, I think I'd be a bit different given my wobbly tendencies in bunched sprints or flying round corners on tri bars :P
    Yeah, but you missed off the next bit of what you quoted "Probably needlessly". The thing is, any knock which would damage a carbon frame beyond cosmetic clearcoat scratching would put a huge dent in a ti frame. Not only the sort of thing you'd not want to ride the bike with, but it's not like you hear of people doing that to their "lifetime ti" frames.

    Though of course I should bear in mind that when made into a bicycle, ti acquires magical properties which it doesn't have in any other application :roll:
  • Escargot wrote:
    I've had a plethora of Ti bikes over these last 3 years and yep, true to form they are long-lasting, comfortable and you can ride them in all weathers and not have to worry that the frame's going to get ruined (pity the same can't be said about alloy components though!).

    Other than crashing due to the wet I wasn't aware that the bad weather would ruin a carbon frame or that they don't last :?

    A nightmare if true as I've recently invested in carbon (although sensibility says that can't be true).

    Oviously, a bit of rain wont ruin a Carbon frame as such, but I have noticed some signs of wear on the clearcoat of some parts of my frame (down tube and around the bottom bracket area) from stone chips and road salt etc and the paintwork on the rear dropouts doesn't appreciate the turnover of tube replacements you get whilst riding a bike during the 'murkier' months either ... which is why I'm going to use a Sabbath September this winter...

    It may be okay for the 'Pros' and 'Semi Pros' out there -who get a replacement frame or have training and race frames provided for them - but If you only have space or desire for one bike - one that you use all year around then common sense would suggest titanium.

    By the way, a lot of people scoff at my suggestions to get a Ribble but I've got two of their frames, have made numerous other purchases from them and have had no problems - others may beg to differ but I'm just passing on my experiences (you can get the updated Deda Nero Corsa with Centaur for £1200 at the moment which is a good deal IMO).
    let all your saddles be comfy and all your rides less bumpy....
  • Pork Sword wrote:
    Escargot wrote:
    I've had a plethora of Ti bikes over these last 3 years and yep, true to form they are long-lasting, comfortable and you can ride them in all weathers and not have to worry that the frame's going to get ruined (pity the same can't be said about alloy components though!).

    Other than crashing due to the wet I wasn't aware that the bad weather would ruin a carbon frame or that they don't last :?

    A nightmare if true as I've recently invested in carbon (although sensibility says that can't be true).

    Oviously, a bit of rain wont ruin a Carbon frame as such, but I have noticed some signs of wear on the clearcoat of some parts of my frame (down tube and around the bottom bracket area) from stone chips and road salt etc and the paintwork on the rear dropouts doesn't appreciate the turnover of tube replacements you get whilst riding a bike during the 'murkier' months either ... which is why I'm going to use a Sabbath September this winter...

    It may be okay for the 'Pros' and 'Semi Pros' out there -who get a replacement frame or have training and race frames provided for them - but If you only have space or desire for one bike - one that you use all year around then common sense would suggest titanium.

    By the way, a lot of people scoff at my suggestions to get a Ribble but I've got two of their frames, have made numerous other purchases from them and have had no problems - others may beg to differ but I'm just passing on my experiences (you can get the updated Deda Nero Corsa with Centaur for £1200 at the moment which is a good deal IMO).

    That's fine, thanks for the info. Sadly I only have room/finance for one bike so will have to be careful. Seems like a paint issue that you're having though so am not 100% if this is down to poor finishing or if paint doesn't take to carbon like it does with metallic frames. For sure you cannot bake paint onto a carbon frame so maybe that's the problem ?

    I've no knowledge of Ribble but have to say their bikes look great, well priced and I considered a bottom of the range sportive at one point. I seem to read a lot of bad press on here about customer service though so Ribble seems to be in the same/similar boat to Boardman. Great bikes let down by pockets of bad service. Shame really.
  • aracer wrote:
    PianoMan wrote:
    My Ti bikes can, and have taken a beating though whereas I worry about the slightest knock on my Carbon bike


    Though of course I should bear in mind that when made into a bicycle, ti acquires magical properties which it doesn't have in any other application :roll:

    I've seen the youtube video of the guy smashing the crap out of the new Cannondale Carbon MTB frame and I must admit that I was impressed with the strength of THAT frame... some of those hits would definitely have damaged a Ti frame more than cosmetically but how many of us would gladly ride a Carbon frame that had took a hard knock? At least with Ti, you know that the general day-to-day wear and tear you get from 'putting in the miles' is not going to do any harm whereas I think a Carbon frame wouldn't look as 'new' - however structurally sound it is...
    let all your saddles be comfy and all your rides less bumpy....
  • Why is it soooooooooo bloody hard to choose a bike? I thought I'd got it sorted in my head. I'd go with a nice carbon frame and SRAM/ Ultegra groupset from either ribble/planet x/ focus. Then I had to look at the Ti and I'm well stuck now. I'd told myself that £1700 would be my limit but the Ti bikes have that kind of nice shiney clean line look about them which I'm finding more appealing the more I look at them. Although I'd have to have a cheaper groupset.
    Is it possible to look at to many bikes? Because I think I have :?
    Bianchi. There are no alternatives only compromises!
    I RIDE A KONA CADABRA -would you like to come and have a play with my magic link?
  • Pork Sword
    Pork Sword Posts: 213
    edited September 2009
    Choices, choices, choices... life's a b**ch but hey, that's one of the things I love about cycling - nothing ever stands still and there's always something new and exciting around the corner to look at! It can drive you to distraction admittedly though...

    I don't think you can beat the look of a shiny Ti frame and I'm sure that Ti would be good enough for 90% of people. But i love the ride characteristics of Carbon... just bear in mind the potential problems of Carbon frames as aptly described on this very forum:-

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/w ... rame-23020
    let all your saddles be comfy and all your rides less bumpy....
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    If I was to spend £1700 I would go up to £2k and get the Ti with Sram red from Planet X - it is just such a shame that it doesn't come with better wheels!!! I reckon you would have to spend an extra £300 to get some Fulcrums 3s or Ksyrium Elites.
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Aracer Quoted: Yeah, but you missed off the next bit of what you quoted "Probably needlessly". The thing is, any knock which would damage a carbon frame beyond cosmetic clearcoat scratching would put a huge dent in a ti frame. Not only the sort of thing you'd not want to ride the bike with, but it's not like you hear of people doing that to their "lifetime ti" frames.

    Er no, I'd strongly disagree with you comment - if you hit a titanium frame hard enough to dent it, you'd break most carbon frames. Yes carbon frames are pretty tough, but I've got a broken one in my shed that shows they aren't indestructable either - it's got 2 cracks that are pretty well down to having a hard life. To demonstrate my confidence in carbon I still bought a carbon cross frame earlier this year, and it's a great bike, but if I had a choice of only one bike, I'd still plump for titanium.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    gabriel959 wrote:
    If I was to spend £1700 I would go up to £2k and get the Ti with Sram red from Planet X - it is just such a shame that it doesn't come with better wheels!!! I reckon you would have to spend an extra £300 to get some Fulcrums 3s or Ksyrium Elites.

    I have the Planet X Ti Sportive and Dura Ace (except chainset as I wanted compact) and it is a great frame though I would go with the SRAM if it had been available when I bought last year. Not there's anything wrong with the Dura-Ace works great just SRAM just appeals to me. Don't ask why as I haven't a clue.

    Nothing wrong with those wheels. I've had them a year now and I had to get the front wheel trued once however I hit a huge pot hole (not looking where I was going :oops: ) so any wheel would have buckled. That included riding all through last winter. Because they are cheap some people just assume they are crap but they really aren't that bad just great value :wink:

    Having said that I haven't tried any more expensive wheels as they would be lost on me as I'm not that quick however I do have a powertap which I rent built into a Mavic Open Pro and I certainly now how much of a brick that wheel is comparison.
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    I am not saying they are bad, indeed they look like great value - I was just saying such a bike deserves a little bit of bling!!! :)
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    gabriel959 wrote:
    I am not saying they are bad, indeed they look like great value - I was just saying such a bike deserves a little bit of bling!!! :)

    Can't disagree with that. I just keep drooling over the Dura-Ace wheels myself.