Chain noise on the middle cogs of a Campy Chorus cassette.

castawayboat
castawayboat Posts: 6
edited January 2013 in Workshop
I'm sure the dérailleur is adjusted correctly. There is no noise when riding on high or low gears, but when the chain is on the middle 3 cogs or so I have a rattling noise, no matter how I have the gears adjusted.
The cassette is new, the chain is not but was tested at my LBS recently and is apparently fine. I could buy a new one to check, but don't want to spend money on a new chain only to find the problem is still there.
Has anyone else had this?

Pinarello F4:13
10 speed Chorus shifter/dérailleur.

Thanks everyone!

Comments

  • Smokin Joe
    Smokin Joe Posts: 2,706
    A new cassette does need a new chain. Even if the chain is within limits it will still have stretched by a degree and assuming you have the correct indexing adjustment I would bet renewing the chain will solve your problems.
  • caw35slr
    caw35slr Posts: 439
    Well, you're going to need a new chain one day, so there's no long-term waste in buying one now to see if it fixes your problem.

    I'm pretty sure that Smokin Joe is correct. However, you might want to check that your rear derailleur cable is running smoothly. A clean and lube won't hurt, might make your noise go, and won't cost you a penny.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Have you checked that you've got all the spacers in the right order - look at the cassette, are all the spaces even? If the chain was too worn, it would rattle on all the sprockets.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Bon_Jovi
    Bon_Jovi Posts: 18
    Did you ever find a solution? I am experiencing exactly the same issue. My setup is Campy Chorus rear derailleur and Record cassette. The middle two or three cogs make some weird noise - I can liken it to the noise made when you are not quite in gear, but only very slightly so.

    My other bike which has an athena rear derailleur and Chorus cassette does not have the problem. Its driving me insane! :)

    I have tried:
    Several trips to the LBS.
    Took apart the rear derailleur and re-assembled.
    Tweaked high gear screw and cable tension for an entire afternoon.
    Lube - lots of it.

    I dont think there really is much impact to what is going on, other than the very annoying noise, which I was almost ready to give up on and chalking it to "normal" until I realized my other Campy equipped bike does not have the same issue.
  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    In a similar vein,

    I get a noise from the third and fourth gear sprokets when peddaling hard, both on the small and big ring. It's more of a creaking. I thought it was pedals, but I don't get it as badly when on other sprokets. Mine is Centaur cassette and derailleur. :?

    Neither the cassette or derailleur has been apart from new 3 months ago. Chain and cassette are clean and well lubed. Bloody annoying when pushing hard or going uphill. Sounds like my £2.5k bike has been left out in the rain for several years.... :x

    PP
  • Bon_Jovi
    Bon_Jovi Posts: 18
    After a lot of time, sweat, and a little bit of blood, I was able to get rid of the noise. Oh, not to mention, a lot of cash on new parts (and the Campy 11 chain tool). I took the following steps:
    Replaced derailleur cables and housing - no effect.
    Degreased, cleaned, lubed cassette and chain - no real effect.
    Replaced rear derailleur - no effect.
    Replaced chain - no effect (I do admit though, I did a terrible job on this one, so keep this in mind, and I was also using an after market master link).
    Replaced rear cassette AND chain (excellent job this time).

    No noise! I have the sneaky suspicion that replacing the chain (properly) would have probably been enough. In any case, during my final "job", I used a proper torque wrench to install the new cassette almost 40Nm, and followed Campy's instruction for chain installation to the letter. Shifting is great, and the noise is the nice Campy mechanical purr I am used to.

    I wasted a lot of cash - Campy chain tool, rear derailleur (Record), one cassette (Record), two chains, new cable set - and a BOAT load of time and frustration. My advice to you if you have noise:

    1 - Make sure your rear derailleur cable has the right amount of tension. The Park Tools website gives a good description of how to set the indexing.
    2 - Get a new chain, and install it with the Campy 11 chain tool.

    Campy 11 is great, but with tighter tolerances, precision is key. I am very happy. Does anyone want a pre-owned Campy Chorus 11 derailleur or slightly used Record Cassette (11-23)?
  • Bon_Jovi
    Bon_Jovi Posts: 18
    I also put in a spacer like this: http://www.competitivecyclist.com/road- ... 267.0.html

    I tried a 1mm and 0.5mm spacer. 0.5mm spacer works great. I can shift into the largest rear cog from the big front chainring no problems (dont freak out, i dont do it, but want to have the ability to do so if i have to).
  • Butterd2
    Butterd2 Posts: 937
    I appreciate that this is a Campy thread but I went through a similar process of trying to track down what sounded like the chain rubbing on the front mech but it clearly wasn't. After much trouble it turned out to be the one month old Dura-Ace chain which whilst still exactly the correct measurements (no stretch) was the culprit. New KMC chain and bliss again.

    Moral of the story: Just cos the chain's new doesn't mean it's not the chain.
    Scott CR-1 (FCN 4)
    Pace RC200 FG Conversion (FCN 5)
    Giant Trance X

    My collection of Cols
  • holybinch
    holybinch Posts: 417
    My task this weekend: solve the exact same problem.

    Been told that adjustment on Campa should be done starting from the middle, not the extremities (like on Shimano)
    We'll see...
    FCN 4(?) (Commuter - Genesis Croix de Fer)
    FCN 3 (Roadie - Viner Perfecta)

    -- Please sponsor me on my London to Paris ride --
    http://www.diabeteschallenge.org.uk/cha ... n_to_paris
  • will3
    will3 Posts: 2,173
    Just make sure your lockring is ttight before you start :wink:
  • holybinch
    holybinch Posts: 417
    Yup, that will make a big difference from last time!
    Now I have the uber campag cassette tool! AHA! :wink:
    FCN 4(?) (Commuter - Genesis Croix de Fer)
    FCN 3 (Roadie - Viner Perfecta)

    -- Please sponsor me on my London to Paris ride --
    http://www.diabeteschallenge.org.uk/cha ... n_to_paris
  • Bon_Jovi
    Bon_Jovi Posts: 18
    took me some time, playing with cable tension as well. very finicky. i think i have it dialed in perfect now, with no noise. good luck!
  • Tormoza
    Tormoza Posts: 1
    Well, I'm glad I found this thread ... thought I was the only one having an issue. I have a Centaur carbon compact (34 x 50) up front, and a Centaur 12-25 10-speed cassette in back. I've always had good luck with KMC chains so that's what I'm using. However, I noticed that in the small chainring and the 3rd smallest (14 or 15 teeth) cog, I get the sound others have described: as if the alignment is slightly off. Same thing for the big chainring and about the middle cog. Driving me crazy. I even got a new cassette and chain, but to no avail. I'm going to follow the advice about using Park's derailleur adjustment information as a guide and hope that works.
  • james0133
    james0133 Posts: 19
    Bon_Jovi wrote:
    After a lot of time, sweat, and a little bit of blood, I was able to get rid of the noise. Oh, not to mention, a lot of cash on new parts (and the Campy 11 chain tool). I took the following steps:
    Replaced derailleur cables and housing - no effect.
    Degreased, cleaned, lubed cassette and chain - no real effect.
    Replaced rear derailleur - no effect.
    Replaced chain - no effect (I do admit though, I did a terrible job on this one, so keep this in mind, and I was also using an after market master link).
    Replaced rear cassette AND chain (excellent job this time).

    No noise! I have the sneaky suspicion that replacing the chain (properly) would have probably been enough. In any case, during my final "job", I used a proper torque wrench to install the new cassette almost 40Nm, and followed Campy's instruction for chain installation to the letter. Shifting is great, and the noise is the nice Campy mechanical purr I am used to.

    I wasted a lot of cash - Campy chain tool, rear derailleur (Record), one cassette (Record), two chains, new cable set - and a BOAT load of time and frustration. My advice to you if you have noise:

    1 - Make sure your rear derailleur cable has the right amount of tension. The Park Tools website gives a good description of how to set the indexing.
    2 - Get a new chain, and install it with the Campy 11 chain tool.

    Campy 11 is great, but with tighter tolerances, precision is key. I am very happy. Does anyone want a pre-owned Campy Chorus 11 derailleur or slightly used Record Cassette (11-23)?


    That sounds like a nightmare!! I feel your pain! It is a very annoying problem that cant seem to be adjusted out. I just cleaned my new chain and the noise started. It only happens when the chain has a straight run and at high rpm. I think is it due to cleaning the chain and washing the original grease out. When the chain does not have a straight run there is no noise and I believe this is because the chain is slightly twisted and the rollers are held tightly so don't rattle around. I am going to test this theory by using some chain wax to see what happens.

    The other things I'm going to try is check the alignment of the hanger and grease the splines on the free hub plus re-torque the cassette.

    My group is Campag Super Record 2012 on Fulcrum Racing 1's. Has anyone else experienced this problem??
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    james0133 wrote:
    That sounds like a nightmare!! I feel your pain!

    I don't think the great singer is going to hear you - he hasn't logged onto the forum for nearly two years :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • james0133
    james0133 Posts: 19
    Rolf F wrote:
    james0133 wrote:
    That sounds like a nightmare!! I feel your pain!

    I don't think the great singer is going to hear you - he hasn't logged onto the forum for nearly two years :lol:

    Good on you Rolf! Jon Bon are you out there!

    Not really the point, just looking for peoples experiences with this and maybe no one else will need to go to the lengths Mr, Bon Jovi had to go to:)
  • james0133
    james0133 Posts: 19
    Well after some messing around its sorted.

    1) Straighten Hanger. Was out by 5mm at wheel rim. (Not much difference in noise)

    2) Tune RD very accurately. (Not much difference in noise level)

    2) Adjust the A or H screw which tightens the RD spring and moves the top jockey wheel closer or further away from the cassette. 7mm is recommended 6mm seemed the quietest. (A little quieter)

    3) Remove the cassette and grease the splines of the free hub. (Definitely quieter)

    4) Use a heave chain oil on the inside run of chain. (A little quieter)

    All in all quite a bit of time spent tuning but it is running very nicely now and there is not much noise at all.

    I would love to hear other peoples experiences with this!!:)
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    james0133 wrote:
    Well after some messing around its sorted.

    1) Straighten Hanger. Was out by 5mm at wheel rim. (Not much difference in noise)

    Was this an alloy removeable hanger? You might want to get a new hanger as they shouldn't really be bent backwards and forwards. You'll find the previous drivetrain noise blissfully quiet compared to that caused by a rear derailleur imploding into the rear wheel!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • lef
    lef Posts: 728
    new mech hangers should be checked for alignment and straightened so should be fine, proof of this is in Campags install instructions. Repeatedly bending or bending by a significant amount is a different matter.
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    holybinch wrote:
    My task this weekend: solve the exact same problem.

    Been told that adjustment on Campa should be done starting from the middle, not the extremities (like on Shimano)
    We'll see...

    In fact it is always sensible to put the chain into a neutral gear (one that puts the chain nice and straight but also has a bit of tension in the chain e.g large front ring, 5th rear cog) to index regardless of make.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    Also you could have avoided all these noise woes by fitting Shimano :-)
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • james0133
    james0133 Posts: 19
    smidsy wrote:
    Also you could have avoided all these noise woes by fitting Shimano :-)

    Don't tell me you put Shimano on a Basso Astra, I'd put Shimano on any bike bar a Basso! :P
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    james0133 wrote:
    smidsy wrote:
    Also you could have avoided all these noise woes by fitting Shimano :-)

    Don't tell me you put Shimano on a Basso Astra, I'd put Shimano on any bike bar a Basso! :P
    And then you would have a noisy basso. I simply do not get on with campagnolo.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • bondurant
    bondurant Posts: 858
    smidsy wrote:
    And then you would have a noisy basso. I simply cannot install campagnolo correctly.
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    Bondurant wrote:
    smidsy wrote:
    And then you would have a noisy basso. I simply cannot install campagnolo correctly.

    No, I do not like the shape of the hoods and the fact that you need to pay 30 - 40% more to get the equivalent spec. And then have to have different tools and the fact that the spacings on the cassettes are not consistent etc etc.

    I am not saying it is no good I am simply saying I do not get on with it. I am sure there are many who say similar with Shimano, thats fine and it's just a fact of life. THE END.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • bondurant
    bondurant Posts: 858
    You actually said it was noisy, but thanks for the other info.

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