Headset Woes - Please help me!!

swallow

Hello All -

I have just spent the last two hours phoning around bikeshops and getting more and more confused as no-one can give me a straight answer....

Basically, I am building up a new frame and this is my first experience of using a frame that takes an integrated headset. Its been 5 years since my last "NEW" bike and I am not familiar with this new style of headset.

So - I have a Mongoose Teocali 2007 frame (new but old)

The headtube inside diameter measures 44mm
The headtube outer diameter measures just a shade over 51mm

There were some cups pressed into the head-tube which on the advice of a major bike part website helpline, I have banged out.

now I have been looking at CRC & wiggle etc but I cant for the life of me understand which of all the different integrated type headsets will fit. Are they actually all the same size, would i need 45/45 45/36 bearings....I just don't understand all the nuances here

I've called a few bike shops and they either don't know or they sound confident but each say something different.

I would REALLY appreciate if someone who actually DOES know what they are talking about could make it clear to me...pretty please!!! Its the last thing that is holding me up from getting back out there

fred2003

Have a ganders on here m8.
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=68
Hope it helps,
Neil.

fred2003

Ok thought id pull the bit out for you as its quite a large page.

From Park Tools:
The integrated system uses cartridge bearings that are supported by machining in a specially shaped head tube. The frame may also use pressed rings or retainers inside the headtube. A cartridge bearing slips into these "cups" or supports, and is simply lifted out for replacement. There is no contact with the headtube face. The bearing sits inside the headtube, and references the angular contact. There are different standards within this integrated-angular contact family, and these are not interchangeable. A table at the end of this article summarizes the various standards.

The "IS" system is considered the most common. The name Integrated System is not a registered trade name. The system uses the 45-degree bearing contact in the frame. The bearings for the 1-1/8 inch steering columns use a 41mm outside diameter with a 45-degree bearing contact in the frame. The bearing may be marked "36-45". The first number refers to the inside bearing contact with the headset race or centering cone. The second number refers to the frame contact.

The less common 36-degree angular contact standard uses a bearing for the 1-1/8 inch steering columns with a 41.5mm outside diameter. The bearings may be marked "36-36".

Hope this helps,
Neil.

swallow

cheers for speedy reply - so in my instance, having removed and slightly buggered up the inserts, I need to buy a headset that comes with the inserts as well. Some on CRC are pictured without the inserts and just a few are pictured with the inserts. Do they all actually come with them? If you could post me a link to something that WILL work I'd be eternally grateful!

Cheers, TOM

supersonic

If they were cups in the frame, it indicates it needs an internal Zero Stack headset! You can't just drop bearings in there, they need cups.

supersonic

And after researching it does seem to use a zerostack. You need a whole new headset.

fred2003

Seems you need a zero stack headset m8.

Click this link and hit the spec tab
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Pr ... 5&cm_mmc=$

You will need one of these:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=27947
or
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=36141

Or just search for zerostack headsets, for cane creek look for the zsc series and for fsa look for the zs series.
I have just bought 2 cane creek zsc1's for my diamondback xsl's and they come with the fork crown in the pack as do most.
Hope this helps.
Neil.

fred2003

Arrggghhhh Sir Sonic beats me to it again, top work fella

supersonic

Lol, it was the 'knocking the cups out' bit that alerted me!

fred2003

The 44mm inner and 50ishmm outer pointed straight to zero stack, thanks to you i knew the answer to this one

swallow

thanks chaps - shame I didnt think to ask here yesterday, could have had a visit from the postie tomorrow and got out there......

fred2003

You live an learn
Hope you get sorted soon m8.
Neil.

swallow

and to help me understand further will these work too?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=29301



http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=38692[url][/url]

supersonic

You have to be careful of some of the naming. To me there are three main headset types:

Conventional - use the external cups
Internal or Zero Stack - use internal cups
Integrated - use no cups.

For some daft reason some use the term Semi Integrated for Internal types, or Internal for integrated! That top one will fit as it is an proper Internal.

Have a look for the FSA Z too.

swallow

thanks again - bought the frame as it was a good deal £125 on ebay, without realising teh headache I was in for - thought i'd just swap all my bits across. Front Mech wont fit either, nor will seatpost - I does however allow me to go for a speedball/joplin now as I was stuck with 27.2 before.....

nicklouse

two topics in the FAQs that might have helped.

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12624782

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12600768