Dirty money in cycling.
Comments
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So it was comment piece, not editorial or reporting. (And one example from 'back in 2008' at that). Hmmm...disgruntledgoat wrote:I would cite the CIF piece back in 2008 when the police foiled a plot to bomb airliners at Heathrow headlined "I bet you it will all turn out to be a hoax" arguing that no charges would ever be brought and the operation was a simple piece of racist scarmongering by the security services.
Following your logic the editorial stance of The Sun is that a way should be found to exterminate all cyclists, given that in a comment piece in the Sun from 2006 called 'I hate cyclists', written by Emma Parker-Bowles, she said that "There needs to be a natural extermination process for these infuriating people".0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
So it was comment piece, not editorial or reporting. (And one example from 'back in 2008' at that). Hmmm...disgruntledgoat wrote:I would cite the CIF piece back in 2008 when the police foiled a plot to bomb airliners at Heathrow headlined "I bet you it will all turn out to be a hoax" arguing that no charges would ever be brought and the operation was a simple piece of racist scarmongering by the security services.
Following your logic the editorial stance of The Sun is that a way should be found to exterminate all cyclists, given that in a comment piece in the Sun from 2006 called 'I hate cyclists', written by Emma Parker-Bowles, she said that "There needs to be a natural extermination process for these infuriating people".
Let's say I let you have the police then... What of the rest?
Sorry, I can't trudge through the CIF archve for the exact date, i'm working and posting from my phone."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
And what do you do when people fail to meet those responsibilities? Enforce the law perhaps in order to protect individuals from the harm posed to them by others, as 'liberal thinkers' often advocate.markwalker wrote:people are part of a society that affords rights but in return the same people have responsibilities...0 -
Actually, you know what. It doesn't matter. We disagree, we're not going to agree and as such I'll say that I respect your point of view, mine differs so lets leave it there.
My father once told me, in my slothful teenage years, that I viewed conversation as a bloodsport. If somebody didn't agree with me I'd try and bludgeon them round the head with my argument until they caved, defeated before my mighty intellect recognising the error of their ways. Make of that what you will."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
And what do you do when people fail to meet those responsibilities? Enforce the law perhaps in order to protect individuals from the harm posed to them by others, as 'liberal thinkers' often advocate.markwalker wrote:people are part of a society that affords rights but in return the same people have responsibilities...
Indeed, and when an individual or organisation wish to persue their personal or oin this case business goals and sponsor a cycling team for whatever legal ends they should be free to do so without being vetted and permitted by self appointed arbitars of suitability.
Clearly its reasonable for everyone to have emotion attached to this and thats good too.0 -
No, because granting that freedom is incompatible with protecting the freedoms of other citizens to use the roads without running a high level of risk of death and injury. Point being many 'freedoms' are mutually incompatible.disgruntledgoat wrote:A motorist doesn't have the right to drive at any speed though...
Perhaps that was because I was giving an answer to markwalker :roll:disgruntledgoat wrote:I didn't say anything like that did I?
In your book maybe. In my book 'freedom from' is as important as 'freedom to'. I certainly think that it isn't silly to want a society where a woman can walk down the street without being in constant fear of being raped, or where a cyclist can use the public road without being in fear of being run down by a speeding motorist.disgruntledgoat wrote:nobody has the right to be free of fear. That's silly.0 -
Line up your illustrative examples, and I will knock them down for you.disgruntledgoat wrote:Let's say I let you have the police then... What of the rest?
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Good god heaven forbid if a really nasty company like BP sponsered a team, oh hang on?!0
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No British PM has had to visit BP's offices in order to get elected.eh wrote:Good god heaven forbid if a really nasty company like BP sponsered a team, oh hang on?!
Still pro cycling is extremely commercial, the teams themselves are named after brands and corporate entities. It's only a degree of how unpleasant the money is, whether you like Sky and Murdoch, your views on lotteries and scratchcards, what you think of Cofidis's lending loans at 25% or the petrodollar cronyism behind Astana.0 -
Says it all really.jim one wrote:When large sums of money is involved I think sadly morals fall to lower down the agenda. 0 -
BikingBernie wrote:teagar wrote:Not quite sure what research suggets that being right wing is genetic.
Altemeyer (1988) conceptualized the authoritarian as a person highly dependent upon a strong group, demanding high ideological conformity. The Right Wing Authoritarianism scale (RWA) was developed by Altemeyer (1988) to measure the three reliable facets of authoritarianism: conventionalism, i.e., rigid conformity to group norms, submission to higher status individuals, and aggression toward out-groups and unconventional group members. The emergence of an authoritarian personality appears to be unrelated to intellectual ability or socioeconomic status. Altemeyer believed this personality type was the product of a development history of harsh parental discipline acquired through social learning. However, a study of 39 pairs of monozygotic (identical) and 38 pairs of dizygotic (fraternal) adult twins reared apart and 423 pairs of monzygotic and 434 pairs of dizygotic adult twins reared together indicates that genetic factors account for at least 50% of the phenotypic variance and unshared environment for 35% (McCourt, Bouchard, Lykken, Tellegen, & Keyes, 1999). The hypothesis that authoritarianism derives from aspects of the rearing environment was not supported by this study. Nor was the RWA trait related to general cognitive ability. It appears to be primarily influenced by genetic factors as well as by unique environmental factors. The superficial perspective, that the family environment is an important influence is due to its confounding with genetic relationships.
http://www.ulm.edu/~palmer/Box%208.htm
Bit sinister that.
You can genetically profile people to work out their propensity to a particular ideology?
Not sure I really agree, nor, more importantly, would I want to agree!
Genetics should never be seen to play a role in politics. Ever. For obvious reasons.Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.0 -
dennisn wrote:eh wrote:Good god heaven forbid if a really nasty company like BP sponsered a team, oh hang on?!
Fill me in(American you know). BP is evil how? :? :? :?
Whoa, I'm already regretting asking this, so keep it simple if you would. I get confused with lots of big words.
Petroleum Company, that's all you need know really.M.Rushton0 -
mrushton wrote:dennisn wrote:eh wrote:Good god heaven forbid if a really nasty company like BP sponsered a team, oh hang on?!
Fill me in(American you know). BP is evil how? :? :? :?
Whoa, I'm already regretting asking this, so keep it simple if you would. I get confused with lots of big words.
Petroleum Company, that's all you need know really.
Do you own or drive a car? Your answer sounds a bit vague to say the least. Then again I did ask to keep it simple.0 -
dennisn wrote:mrushton wrote:dennisn wrote:eh wrote:Good god heaven forbid if a really nasty company like BP sponsered a team, oh hang on?!
Fill me in(American you know). BP is evil how? :? :? :?
Whoa, I'm already regretting asking this, so keep it simple if you would. I get confused with lots of big words.
Petroleum Company, that's all you need know really.
Do you own or drive a car? Your answer sounds a bit vague to say the least. Then again I did ask to keep it simple.
Dennis its the politics of envy brought on by the frustrations born of insignificance
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Or should that be the politics of greed brought on by the delusions born of arrogance?markwalker wrote:Dennis its the politics of envy brought on by the frustrations born of insignificance
Anyhow, with regards to BP....
Browne's post-merger cost-cutting was cited in a probe as a cause of the refinery explosion in Texas City, Tex., killing 15 and injuring dozens of others. Regulators and BP employees charged this was just the latest in a series of deadly incidents where BP had not met safety standards. Two big oil spills last year at its Prudhoe Bay oil fields in Alaska had serious environmental impact. Again, outside investigators found poor post-merger integration led to negligence in corrosion prevention. On top of this, the aggressive culture resulted in questionable manipulation of the crude-oil and propane markets, leading to indictments and heavy fines.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ... 034108.htm0 -
Is veery interesting information but surely is right of powerful to use lesser people? I think is same in kazakhstan but is not important to put up with dissent. Is just dissapearing if tiresome.
I am thinking Biking Bernie is candidate for disappear unless he bring the plans of doping for the glory of holy trinity Vino, The calves and Kazakhstan.
or as you say in west. hurry the f k up mo fo or i is popping a cap in yo head innit. I is riding the Vuelta and needs the gear. I would be veeery intersted in sprinters secret he was veery fast last night.
Also i like to say Adolf in post two.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
Or should that be the politics of greed brought on by the delusions born of arrogance?markwalker wrote:Dennis its the politics of envy brought on by the frustrations born of insignificance
Anyhow, with regards to BP....
Browne's post-merger cost-cutting was cited in a probe as a cause of the refinery explosion in Texas City, Tex., killing 15 and injuring dozens of others. Regulators and BP employees charged this was just the latest in a series of deadly incidents where BP had not met safety standards. Two big oil spills last year at its Prudhoe Bay oil fields in Alaska had serious environmental impact. Again, outside investigators found poor post-merger integration led to negligence in corrosion prevention. On top of this, the aggressive culture resulted in questionable manipulation of the crude-oil and propane markets, leading to indictments and heavy fines.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ... 034108.htm
Hold on now BB, you've got to remember that, according to Ayn Rand, greed is good.0 -
markwalker wrote:dennisn wrote:mrushton wrote:dennisn wrote:eh wrote:Good god heaven forbid if a really nasty company like BP sponsered a team, oh hang on?!
Fill me in(American you know). BP is evil how? :? :? :?
Whoa, I'm already regretting asking this, so keep it simple if you would. I get confused with lots of big words.
Petroleum Company, that's all you need know really.
Do you own or drive a car? Your answer sounds a bit vague to say the least. Then again I did ask to keep it simple.
Dennis its the politics of envy brought on by the frustrations born of insignificance
That does sound like a bit more comprehensive and compelling answer than simply "because it's a petroleum company".0 -
Bollox! DennisN beat me to it! I wanted to be the one to call 'end of thread' because of tenuous link to Nazis (after second page me finks )
What's this pish doing in the bikeradar forum anyway?0 -
markwalker wrote:Dennis its the politics of envy brought on by the frustrations born of insignificance
And you're jealous of Gordon Brown.
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Given that BSkyB is a publically listed company in which News International only owns a minority share, does that mean all of our pension funds, for example the post office workers pensions, the miners' etc are "dirty money"?
On the "needing to see Murdoch to be PM". The influence of The Sun is vastly inflated. They swing the way of the mood of the country - they can't afford to be seen to not be populist. Nothing could have stopped Labour winning in 97, 01 and 05 in the same way nothing will stop the Tories winning the election in 2010. Unfortunately.0 -
markwalker wrote:johnfinch wrote:markwalker wrote:Dennis its the politics of envy brought on by the frustrations born of insignificance
And you're jealous of Gordon Brown.
Youre just baiting arent you? No way am i going to be drawn into conversations about a one eyed unelected warmongering Scott. Nor am i going to be drawn into comments about national identiity. Its August Im on holiday and I wouldnt want the rabid whinging and sectarianism weve sen on here before would we?
But for the record.
What would i be jealous of an ugly one eyed soon to be deposed Scottish c nut like him for?
Tally Ho Toppers off
Mark why the focus on his disability and his nationality to have a go at him ? what next his religion or colour of his skin perhaps ?
oh and btw its ScotGasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Moray Gub wrote:markwalker wrote:johnfinch wrote:markwalker wrote:Dennis its the politics of envy brought on by the frustrations born of insignificance
And you're jealous of Gordon Brown.
Youre just baiting arent you? No way am i going to be drawn into conversations about a one eyed unelected warmongering Scott. Nor am i going to be drawn into comments about national identiity. Its August Im on holiday and I wouldnt want the rabid whinging and sectarianism weve sen on here before would we?
But for the record.
What would i be jealous of an ugly one eyed soon to be deposed Scottish c nut like him for?
Tally Ho Toppers off
Mark why the focus on his disability and his nationality to have a go at him ? what next his religion or colour of his skin perhaps ?
oh and btw its Scot
It was a tongue in cheek response to the baiting that was going on but talking about cheeks and his skin colour he does have ugly ;large pasty jowls and thats enough for me.0 -
markwalker wrote:Moray Gub wrote:markwalker wrote:johnfinch wrote:markwalker wrote:Dennis its the politics of envy brought on by the frustrations born of insignificance
And you're jealous of Gordon Brown.
Youre just baiting arent you? No way am i going to be drawn into conversations about a one eyed unelected warmongering Scott. Nor am i going to be drawn into comments about national identiity. Its August Im on holiday and I wouldnt want the rabid whinging and sectarianism weve sen on here before would we?
But for the record.
What would i be jealous of an ugly one eyed soon to be deposed Scottish c nut like him for?
Tally Ho Toppers off
Mark why the focus on his disability and his nationality to have a go at him ? what next his religion or colour of his skin perhaps ?
oh and btw its Scot
It was a tongue in cheek response to the baiting that was going on but talking about cheeks and his skin colour he does have ugly ;large pasty jowls and thats enough for me.
Oh come on Vino, this MarkWalker sock puppet was funny to begin with but the parody is wearing a bit thin now don't you think?0 -
Kléber wrote:
True, the first thing someone on a journalism course learns is that bias always exists.Moray Gub wrote:Every mainstream paper of whicheber side of the political spectrum they sit on peddles ignorance and prejudice of a certain degree, anyone with half a brain knows that.
But Murdoch is in such a dominant position in the UK that politicians require his blessing to become PM, that is not quite healthy. Still, it is not new. There is Berlusconi in Italy and France's top two newspapers are owned by arms dealers. Even Springfield has its sinister moguls...
sky tv on DSAT reaches only 1/3 British households
The Sun has a weekly circulation of around 2.5 million in population of 60 million
Blair didn't win because he got Murdoch's blessing, more that Labour actively courted the middle England press as it knew that it needed the non-traditional Labour vote to win.
That New Labour won in 1997 is more attributable to the modernisation of the Labour party under Blair/Brown/Mandleson in the wake of John Smith's death than to the blessing of Murdoch.0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:BikingBernie wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean here. By 'niceness' I take it you mean empathy and compassion for others, perhaps along with a desire to protect the interests of minority groups who lack power, are marginalised or of a low status. Thing is such attitudes naturally follow from the basic tenets of 'leftist' thought and go hand in glove with such 'leftist' principles as a belief that wealth should be more equitably distributed in society, that hierarchical power is undesirable and so on.disgruntledgoat wrote:The left doesn't have a monopoly on niceness.
I would agree that some people with right-wing views can still be human in their outlook, but in general the tenets of right-wing thought, such as a belief in 'to the winner the spoils' status-seeking competitive individualism, a belief in the utility of hierarchism and inequality, a belief in nationalism rather than internationalism and so on all run counter to the promotion of compassion and empathy. Numerous psychological studies of the 'right wing' mindset have reached similar conclusions, ranging from the work of Theodore Adorno in the 1950's through to Bob Altemeyer today.
In addition, it could well be argued that the only thing that really differentiates say, a Daily-Mail reading Tory calling for benefits be taken a way from 'dole scroungers', and someone like Hitler arguing "Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live" is the degree to which the individual is willing to 'extend the logic' of their belief system.
Anyhow, perhaps you could explain to me how, in your view, 'niceness' is psychologically compatible with right-wing ideology?
I don't believe that forcing people into an idealised model of a society, implemented top down for peoples own good is very nice. I beleive that letting people make their own decisions as to what they do with their money adn not hectoring, taxing and monitoring them into submission is nice. There you go.
Incidentally... Hitler you say? Planned economy.... Party membership required to work... A totalitarian is a totalitarian, you can cherry pick bits from the right or the left to suit your argument about any of them, but they invariably end up the same way, bread lines and gulags.
kerching we have a winner !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law0 -
BikingBernie wrote:Can anyone give any other examples of pro cycling's taste for 'dirty money’?
Much of professional cycling is sponsored by banks and banking firms. If you want to get into the real anarchy idea- and I mean anarchy as a political ideology, not the crap version that the common man associates with the whole "punk" ethic (they miss the point a little)- you could argue that people never own anything, but the bank owns everything and is the power controlling everything in people's lives- and thus it should be abolished.
Look at it that way, and all money is dirty money- property as theft, etc etc... I won't go into detail as it's irrelevant to the question, and it'd bore everyoneThe most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg0
