Michael Jackson vs Diana

mfin

So, MJ vs Diana... both had unassertive, shy (to many effing irritating) squeaky voices and manners about them, and both died with a mass hysteria of apparent public emotion ...ridiculous.

Is it that if you are a public figure or celebrity and have a squeaky shy voice then you are very likely 'loved by all' and this will come to light upon your death? Its lucky that Joe Pasquale is quite assertive from his years of stage performances. If he was shy then when he died it could be that everybody in the world would be in tears and the planet might even stop revolving.

But... at least as a little consolation when Jackson died we didn't have to listen to an infuriating mock-emotional speech by Tony Blair full of those those massive pauses that we're supposed to think of as sincerity.

(Jackson did do some good music though in his prime, not that he wrote much of the best stuff, I don't think Diana made the charts though).

stevenmh

I am not sure it is right to compare the two.

I was deeply saddened by MJ's death. I am of the age where I grew up with his music. His music and genius will be missed, but at least his music will lve forever.

I do think Larry King and the Tabloids and most other media have dragged it out too much but he was massive. I cannot think of another figure that I do not know personally whose death would affect me as much.

Lady Diana's is a whole other can or worms, and one where I am sorry to say many of the reactions were imho orchestrated.

mfin

I just think if Jackson had died in his prime it would be a different story, but the fact is he was nothing of his former self. I loved some of his early music, but think it was all utter pish pretty much after the Smooth Criminal single was released.

When I say 'if he had died in his prime' what I'm really saying is that he wasn't so out of touch with things and clearly mental back then (just my slang way of putting it). Nothing he ever did enamoured me to him as a person. In fact, pretty much the opposite. The only defence of him would be the money he gave to charity, but, god almighty, whilst doing that he squandered more-than-he-could-make and it put him into complete debt (lesson he provided for his much loved kids about credit cards there!). I dont think it was 'sad' he was like this, I just think the guy was a complete and utter pillock in later life, pllus, it has to be said with VERY questionable morals about how one should conduct themselves with other people's kids (if nothing more serious, but that is speculation).

Diana was just a big waste of space. (and before anyone says the Land Mine campaigning, yes, that's fine, but she had a lot of time on her hands didn't she, she was just a public figure with no particular job (or talent) at that time).

I was serious about the squeaky voice thing believe it or not !! - imagine when Bono dies, will everyone get really emotional? ...cos love him or hate him (I'm more towards the latter), he's tried extremely hard to do some pretty honourable things with 3rd world debt AND has been a relevant musician in the last 30 years. I don't think there will be all the tears.

(Forgive the lashings of British cynicism! )

Frank the tank

I think pretty much all than can be said about Jacko already has been.

As for Diana, I'm ambivulant (sp) towards her, let her rest in peace.

mfin

Frank the tank wrote:

I think pretty much all than can be said about Jacko already has been.

...apart from the potential relationship and proportionality between the 'squeaky shy voice' and amount of (media led) emotional outpouring at his death !!?

...trying to think of the next 'squeaky voicer' (not Pasquale) that might 'add weight to' or dispel my little (very serious and well thought out) theory.

mfin

On an aside... a good few years back I was watching Frank Skinner on a chat show and he was making a little joke about MJ. If I remember rightly it was an American guest also on the sofa that piped up in response to his 'throw away funny' and said to him "should you really make jokes about Michael Jackson? ...cos in my country a lot of people think of him as a figure in the realms of Ghandi or Martin Luther King" ...Frank barely paused for half a second and said back "Yeah... Ghandi Glitter or Martin Luther 'Jonathan' King!" ...how fast was that !!?!

passout

In her defense the peoples princess never dangled William out of a window and didn't abuse young kids. She was messed up, sure, but her heart was in the right place. With MJ nothing was in the right place! He's music wasn't that great either. I don't think that many people in the UK, except those weird looking die-hard fans, were really all that bothered about MJ. He's death was just an interesting news story. When the big D died it was different, people genuinely cared. OK it was over the top and I think some people enjoyed the mourning, but overall she was missed. And no I don't cry when I watch her funeral on video once a week!

On Frank Skinner - I used to love his show, he's very quick. His autobiography is a great read too - really funny.

pinno

I loved MJ's music (up until 1987) and then this icon turned into a freak show. I thought he did everything he possible could to put the media spotlight on him. The bleaching, the face jobs, the coy bashfullness, the odd never-never land business, the flamboyancy. Seems the antithseis of someone shy and retiring.
I am always cycnical about people who want to be adored. There is some huge degree of narcissism coupled with the overwhelming sense that he wanted people to feel sorry for him all the time. I have been through Leukaemia and hell and I do not and I hate people feeling 'sorry' for me. This guy needed to go to a cancer ward and make the realisation he had the world at his feet and there was nothing wrong with him.

The reaction to Dianas death was not Dianas fault.

Frank the tank

mfin wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

I think pretty much all than can be said about Jacko already has been.

...apart from the potential relationship and proportionality between the 'squeaky shy voice' and amount of (media led) emotional outpouring at his death !!?

...trying to think of the next 'squeaky voicer' (not Pasquale) that might 'add weight to' or dispel my little (very serious and well thought out) theory.

There was a commedien/minor celeb in the early 70's called Amy McDonnald who had an incredibly squeeky voice.

passout

Sooty is candidate isn't he?

bobtbuilder

Hmmmm - I'm disappointed. From the thread title I thought this was going to be some sort of animated fight video

Aggieboy

mfin wrote:

So, MJ vs Diana... both had unassertive, shy (to many effing irritating) squeaky voices and manners about them, and both died with a mass hysteria of apparent public emotion ...ridiculous.

Is it that if you are a public figure or celebrity and have a squeaky shy voice then you are very likely 'loved by all' and this will come to light upon your death? Its lucky that Joe Pasquale is quite assertive from his years of stage performances. If he was shy then when he died it could be that everybody in the world would be in tears and the planet might even stop revolving.

But... at least as a little consolation when Jackson died we didn't have to listen to an infuriating mock-emotional speech by Tony Blair full of those those massive pauses that we're supposed to think of as sincerity.

(Jackson did do some good music though in his prime, not that he wrote much of the best stuff, I don't think Diana made the charts though).

I think she made the bed chart of Dr Hasnet Khan! :shock:

Porgy

I thought it was going to be a fight between Diana Ross and Michael Jackson. Then I read that diana was dead - and I thought really? How did I miss that?


Then I twigged it was that OTHER Diana.

mfin

passout wrote:

Sooty is candidate isn't he?

If Sooty dies I'll be devastated. I grew up watching Sooty and I feel like he's very much a part of me and my life. He's also touched so many people so deeply, it just doesn't bear thinking about, a gentle soul with so much to give and to share with this world that doesn't understand him. (Even though his later stuff was never as good as he was in his prime either).

Also I suppose Sooty simply entertains kids, he's never been accused of 'playing' with them

passout

Nice pun

Anonymous

Both of them were victims of circumstance. i think once your life takes such weird directions it must be hard to turn it around.

Diana was under press pressure most of her adult life and MJ's father seems to have been a tyrant.

mfin

dmclite wrote:

Diana was under press pressure most of her adult life and MJ's father seems to have been a tyrant.

But a lot of parents drive kids to work even without education in lots of third world countries. We used to send them to workhouses or down the mines in the not too distant past, but this didn't turn vast numbers of them into soft-whispering high pitched 'put on voice' wierdos did it?

I'm sure Jackson had a tough time but he was plain wierd anyway wasn't he?... I think he just wanted to come across as gentle and nice... It doesn't sit comfortably with me one bit that this 'soft spoken' put on manner was more likely a facade. A facade he used cos it seemed to help him to deal with some of the odd, immoral stuff he was getting up to - Im sure he thought it made people think a certain way about him and pity him, diverting him from his inner guilt - its his 'dont attack me I'm all vulnerable and nice' voice.

Christ, this hasn't turned into an Armstrong thread yet!

Anonymous

Agree aswell mfin, jesus juice and cookie parties with boys and he's 45? if it was us we'd be up to our necks in cack.

Bottom line is, I wouldn't have let my kids near him, let alone stay the night.

mfin

Yeah, I mean, okay, he was never convicted BUT the last thing a normal innocent human being would do is pay people off vast sums if allegations were just pure fiction. To me that parting of money shows the guilt. It might be a simple way of looking at it (well at least to wrap into a couple of lines) but thats how I read it.

That 'quiet bashful' manner that got on my nerves seems to be a psycological protection mechanism for him. But it was also this that seemed to win over enough idiots to think of him as some kind of gentle saint. No chance. The nicest most generous people in the world do NOT all have 'put on stupid high voices'. Wonder what his IQ was, bet he was a bit thick.

Anonymous

mfin wrote:

passout wrote:

Sooty is candidate isn't he?

If Sooty dies I'll be devastated. I grew up watching Sooty and I feel like he's very much a part of me and my life. He's also touched so many people so deeply, it just doesn't bear thinking about, a gentle soul with so much to give and to share with this world that doesn't understand him. (Even though his later stuff was never as good as he was in his prime either).

Also I suppose Sooty simply entertains kids, he's never been accused of 'playing' with them

On a related note, i went to Leeds Castle today, they have a dog collar museum and sweeps tartan collar is on display there.

tebbit

Damn I was hoping for a zombie death match?

gordoncp

mfin wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

I think pretty much all than can be said about Jacko already has been.

...apart from the potential relationship and proportionality between the 'squeaky shy voice' and amount of (media led) emotional outpouring at his death !!?

...trying to think of the next 'squeaky voicer' (not Pasquale) that might 'add weight to' or dispel my little (very serious and well thought out) theory.

Orville the duck has to be in with a shout (!)

Anonymous

or sandra dickinson.