Drivers who overtake cyclists doing the limit
Comments
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teagar wrote:fnegroni wrote:I think cyclists that ride like 'teagar' above are the ones that, when I drive and see them around, I think 'this guy hasn't got a clue.
That's my opinion. Roll with it.
Given that you havn't seen me cycle, I'd like to know how you came up with that conclusion?
Where abouts do you drive? Maybe i'll pay your commute road a visit?
You have been making quite obvious statements in the past posts about your attitude to riding a bicycle.
I drive my bike between Wokingham and Maidenhead. Fancy coming my way and showing me how you ride your bicycle? Then I'll show you how I ride mine and we can compare notes. I can promise you, once you feel the back wheel of an articulated lorry trying to overtake you just before narrowing section of road, you'll change your mind, like I did.
By riding defensively sometimes, you might be a pain in the butt, but you might have just avoided a collision.
And the book you derided, it is a 'practical' advise book, not theory. Obviously it is down to personal judjement, but if your attitude is to just get on with it without much thought, then you are not setting the right expectations when sharing the road. By being passive in your riding, you are effectively not being decided, and give the wrong message.
No one who rides well and safe would ever think Cyclecraft is not worth a read.
Roll with it.0 -
teagar, this isnt about owning the road, or getting angry. This is an issue about safety and simply a "why bother".
And you may not think it an issue when a driver comes an inch past your handlebar on an overtake, but let me tell you, having read/heard of cyclists locally ending up under a driver's wheels I think space is very valid and important.0 -
fnegroni wrote:teagar wrote:fnegroni wrote:I think cyclists that ride like 'teagar' above are the ones that, when I drive and see them around, I think 'this guy hasn't got a clue.
That's my opinion. Roll with it.
Given that you havn't seen me cycle, I'd like to know how you came up with that conclusion?
Where abouts do you drive? Maybe i'll pay your commute road a visit?
You have been making quite obvious statements in the past posts about your attitude to riding a bicycle.
I drive around Wokingham. Fancy coming my way and showing me how you ride your bicycle? Then I'll show you how I ride mine and we can compare notes.
Roll with it.
My attitude being? Relaxed? Enjoying my ride? Not taking poor driving personally, and not deliberately slowing traffic down?
Yeah, definitely don't know what I'm doing. I guess surviving those 1200km I racked up last month were just a big fluke. And for the other years I've been cycling.
Nice to see you adding a new personal dimension to the forum
Good catchphrase though. Think it's a bit '90s but I'm sure it'll catch on again.Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.0 -
downfader wrote:teagar, this isnt about owning the road, or getting angry. This is an issue about safety and simply a "why bother".
And you may not think it an issue when a driver comes an inch past your handlebar on an overtake, but let me tell you, having read/heard of cyclists locally ending up under a driver's wheels I think space is very valid and important.
I think moving into the middle of the road when the speeds are similar, which surely they are when you're cycling at the speed limit, is simply unecessary. It's all about relative speed.
Sure if a car goes past going a fair lick faster than you very close by a less able cyclist may have problems, but given that you're doing the speed limit on a 2 way road, I doubt you would be!
There's being safe, and then there's being uncessarily defensive, which inevitably leads to agrovation which causes an awful lot of avoidable friction and even dangerous behaviour.
By suggesting that people relax, I say it so that they will see that as long as you cycle courteously and respecting that cars DO go faster than cyclists and DO take up more room, then you'll notice less "incidents" and everyone will have a better time.Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.0 -
Teagear, relative speed is an issue, however so is the actual speed, if you're doing 30mph and the car driver is doing 32mph when he knocks you off, the relative speed is 2mph, very little, the ground is doing 0mph, it is going to make a right bloody mess of any one sliding/bouncing/cartwheeling down the road.
Having seen the state of my leathers after hitting the road at 40mph it leaves little to the imaginationHills? what are they0 -
I don't think anyone is talking about "holding cars up" on open roads just for the hell of it. There are plenty of situations (especially when there are islands, turnoffs or whatever around) when it's better to keep cars behind you than give them the chance to do something stupid, and if you're already doing the speed limit then the stupider it's likely to be. As most people on here will know you can't trust drivers to do the right thing so sometimes you have to do what you can to make sure they do.
In these cases they're being "held up" in the same way that a car doing 30 would be "holding them up"- i.e. not at all. There's nothing "dramatic" about it- it's just trying to lessen the potential effects of other people's idiocy.0 -
MrChuck wrote:I don't think anyone is talking about "holding cars up" on open roads just for the hell of it. There are plenty of situations (especially when there are islands, turnoffs or whatever around) when it's better to keep cars behind you than give them the chance to do something stupid, and if you're already doing the speed limit then the stupider it's likely to be. As most people on here will know you can't trust drivers to do the right thing so sometimes you have to do what you can to make sure they do.
In these cases they're being "held up" in the same way that a car doing 30 would be "holding them up"- i.e. not at all. There's nothing "dramatic" about it- it's just trying to lessen the potential effects of other people's idiocy.
what he says
the Issue is that we dont all cycle around constantly at 30+mph...but when the situation arises, local knowledge or advanced observation tells us that there may be a pinchpoint etc ahead in which it would be unsafe or unwise for any vehicle to overtake for their safety and ours :roll:
it doesnt mean that once we reach the speed limit we all leap out into the road and 'own it ' as some would think
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teagar wrote:downfader wrote:teagar, this isnt about owning the road, or getting angry. This is an issue about safety and simply a "why bother".
And you may not think it an issue when a driver comes an inch past your handlebar on an overtake, but let me tell you, having read/heard of cyclists locally ending up under a driver's wheels I think space is very valid and important.
I think moving into the middle of the road when the speeds are similar, which surely they are when you're cycling at the speed limit, is simply unecessary. It's all about relative speed.
Sure if a car goes past going a fair lick faster than you very close by a less able cyclist may have problems, but given that you're doing the speed limit on a 2 way road, I doubt you would be!
There's being safe, and then there's being uncessarily defensive, which inevitably leads to agrovation which causes an awful lot of avoidable friction and even dangerous behaviour.
By suggesting that people relax, I say it so that they will see that as long as you cycle courteously and respecting that cars DO go faster than cyclists and DO take up more room, then you'll notice less "incidents" and everyone will have a better time.
Whoopee-do. Great sense of logic there, Teagar Jesus I'm SO sorry for holding up drivers simply for being on the road and so obviously in the way. Perhaps you'd like us all to hug the kerb and say "thank you sir" when a driver knocks us off for not noticing the speeding cyclist as he pulls out of a side road..? :roll:
Why do I get the feeling you'd moan about "the fast lane" when driving?
There is no hold up. Drivers dont need to do 35+ in a 30 zone. Chances are if they were behind a bus they'd be doing 20-25. Would you like to see the bus move over too? The car is no more The King of the Road than the cycle. 0 -
teagar wrote:My attitude being? Relaxed? Enjoying my ride? Not taking poor driving personally, and not deliberately slowing traffic down?
Yeah, definitely don't know what I'm doing. I guess surviving those 1200km I racked up last month were just a big fluke. And for the other years I've been cycling.
Nice to see you adding a new personal dimension to the forum
Good catchphrase though. Think it's a bit '90s but I'm sure it'll catch on again.
Firstly I must apologies for my previous posts directed at you. I shouldn't have. Quite rightly I don't know how you ride so point taken. I must have been a bit stressed at work. Please accept my apologies.
On the other hand, I do think there is a need for us to be more assertive on the road.
Driving sedatively unfortunately does give the wrong message: that's because there are still too few of us on the road. Drivers are not yet used to anticipate arider's action.
In an ideal world, I wouldn't need to move to the primary position before overtaking a parked car, the driver behind should be able to see that I am 1) ahead of him/her 2) about to approach a parked vehicle, and should therefore hold back.
Unfortunately, because most of us zoom past parked vehicles or stop in fear before making their move, drivers have become used to a cyclist either stopping or jumping on pavements or other silly things, and assume that that's what they are going to do this time.
By moving to the middle of the traffic flow *well before* the parked vehicle, after looking behind *and* allowing any much faster vehicle already in the process of overtaking to overtake, I am clearly stating to the driver that A) I am not going to stop and let him/her pass
I am going to overtake an obstruction ahead with some distance C) I am not going to do something silly like jumping on the kerb D) I might need to brake if the driver of the parked car happens to not see me and decides to pull off and therefore E) KEEP YOUR DISTANCE!
The more of us doing it, the better we can comunicate with drivers.
P.S.
Car drivers pay a tax (VED) on top of their council tax, because they a) pollute a lot b) they actually "consume" the road, and therefore increase maintenance costs.
In Italy, SUVs are banned to access some areas because their weight andtyres, combined with regular traffic speed, is literally destroying the ancient roads.0 -
This happens all the time. There's a lot of drivers seem to think 'bike=>thin=>slow=>overtake' even in situations when they wouldn't dream of overtaking (for example) a tractor or even a parked car. What then happens is that they find that they're over-exposed, take frantic corrective action (or even just make that left turn they suddenly remembered about), leaving the cyclist thinking 'my God, he almost killed me', or worse.
Best defence is to get into the middle of the lane in situations when that's likely. Going at 30+ MPH is a good one, road surfaces decayed to rubble on the edge is another, any form of traffic calming or islands another. You're not trying to make a point, you're trying to discourage as many people as possible from having a go at what would be a dangerous manoeuvre from your point of view. And you're also giving yourself a bit of space should it all go horribly wrong and you need to react quickly.
Defensive riding is about knowing when to assert your position, not cowering meekly in the gutters in the hope that no-one will notice you. But at the risk of sparking another heated debate, the fact that I regularly get motorists overtaking me when I'm riding faster than the speed limit is one of the reasons I can't get too anal about sneaking past the odd red light here and there.....0 -
Excellent post, rhext.
And as for "holding up" cars. I find that, when cycling to work, I spend more time being held up by cars taking up much more space than the occupants need than the time I spend holding them up. The cars that hold me up are stationary. If I "hold up" cars I'm doing 15-30mph.___________________________________________
People need to be told what to do so badly they'll listen to anyone0 -
Downfader,
You should try driving a car around East London. Even when you're in a car on a doing 20mph , they will usually be some to$$er who will want to overtake on the wrong side of a traffic island passing a zebra crossing. Or in a 30 mph limit you'll prolly get a blacked out beamer or golf who believes that unless the scenery is flying by at 40-50mph then you're not going fast enough and will overtake and cut you up, and park up 20 metres down the road to go to the shop, then walk slowly to the shop...And that's when I'm in a car.
Only last night I saw someone try to overtake a stationary bus and jag by pulling into the oncoming traffic, the traffic that was already past the bus and they expected the car on the right side of the road to give way to them.
And you're worried that someone had to break the speed limit to overtake you. Ride along the embankment any day of the week and someone will pass you breaking the speed limit. There are idiots everywhere.
Oh it's fun and games in London sometimes0 -
snooks wrote:Downfader,
You should try driving a car around East London. Even when you're in a car on a doing 20mph , they will usually be some to$$er who will want to overtake on the wrong side of a traffic island passing a zebra crossing. Or in a 30 mph limit you'll prolly get a blacked out beamer or golf who believes that unless the scenery is flying by at 40-50mph then you're not going fast enough and will overtake and cut you up, and park up 20 metres down the road to go to the shop, then walk slowly to the shop...And that's when I'm in a car.
Only last night I saw someone try to overtake a stationary bus and jag by pulling into the oncoming traffic, the traffic that was already past the bus and they expected the car on the right side of the road to give way to them.
And you're worried that someone had to break the speed limit to overtake you. Ride along the embankment any day of the week and someone will pass you breaking the speed limit. There are idiots everywhere.
Oh it's fun and games in London sometimes
I'm well aware that London is The Wild West roads wise.We have our fair share of idiots here too. Southampton has been the "capital" of hit and runs for about 3 years running.
Who says I'm worried per sey ...I couldnt care less if they spin out and crash tbh, as long as they dont take me with them. My thinking is still "why, what is the point?" Its not like there is any advantage to be gained, these arnet petrol heads/speed freaks the majority of the time, or like us cyclists who "step on the gas" for exercise :?0
