Bealach Mor issues with local community

dsoutar

See this report

http://tinyurl.com/neyk4v

Not good news

Dr U Idh

Once the hype over Monty Halls recent TV series has disappeared, they'll be glad of a bit more tourist income

Having said that, I do wonder just how much the local communities see of cyclist spend. How many participants elect to stay overnight in Applecross area before and after the event?

wakemalcolm

That's a delicate one for the organisers as I doubt any of the participants choose Applecross as their place to stay during the event weekend - especially not for the Mor.

Possible solutions?
Move the event start/finish to Applecross so that the climb sits at the end (this would extend the closure time required for the hill but finishing the event at the top would make for a safer descent).
Work with the event organisers to market the hill as the cycling destination in the country, Scotland's Alpe D'huez if you like - you could install a ticket machine to allow self timing of your ascent.
Shift the event from the middle of the tourist season to the end - oh, they've already done that.

It's would be a shame if the people of Applecross do become opposed as the encouragement of the locals as you come off the descent and sweep right onto the peninsula road is one of the highlights of the event every year.

terryw

What a shame, I've stayed at Applecross numerous times in the last twenty years ridden the Beag a few times and have always stayed in Applecross, even though its not that convenient for the start of the ride. Following the recent tacks incident this looks like another over reaction.

ellieb

Oh dear! Can't condone the ambulance bit but this rather sounds like small rural community seeks to keep local roads for local people

Dr U Idh

I don't think you can accuse the locals of that. Seems like they're casting some doubt over the financial benefit (and if they're already over-run by tourists, then why not) and that this ambulance incident has reflected badly on the participants. You shouldn't over-look the inconvenience of the road closures in an area where there are no alternative routes.

bilbo.baggins

wakemalcolm wrote:

Possible solutions?
Work with the event organisers to market the hill as the cycling destination in the country, Scotland's Alpe D'huez if you like - you could install a ticket machine to allow self timing of your ascent.

Looking at their minutes I don't think they'd like that. "problems caused by the increasing number of cyclists on the road year round, who can cause frustration and safety concerns for drivers" http://www.applecrosscommunity.org.uk/p ... 9/4_09.pdf

Whilst I would never ever condone any behaviour that delayed an ambulance, and local views are very important if any event is to be sustainable, it is worth remembering this is a *community* council, not an elected body. Coincidently, it was also a community council chair who has been accused in the Etape Caledonia sabotage. With my conspiracy theory hat on, I'd wonder if community councils all talk to each other as this is the only other (partly) closed road event I am aware of.

bilbo.baggins

bilbo.baggins wrote:

With my conspiracy theory hat on, I'd wonder if community councils all talk to each other as this is the only other (partly) closed road event I am aware of.

Shouldn't reply to my own quote, but isn't the web wonderful.

"Visit from Rannoch Community Council: Four members of Rannoch Community Council visited Applecross to meet with Dr Cargill, Alistair McCowan and Alison Macleod"
http://www.applecrosscommunity.org.uk/p ... 9/7_09.pdf

Same minutes as support was withdrawn.

Most probably one big co-incidence but the bloke who has been accused of the tacks at the Calendonia Etape was the chair of Rannoch Community Council.

andy_from_embsay

That quote around "frustration and safety concerns" is worrying - with consideration from both parties there's no reason for either to occur - the driver needs to understand that he/she has been held up for a few seconds, the cyclists to be prepared to pull over if that's the only way to let the driver past once it's safe to do so.

I wonder if they experience the same "frustration and safety" concerns about sheep or tractors?

ellieb

As I should have said. 'Local roads for local drivers'

sigh

daviesee

You know, the more people try to stop me doing something, the more inclined I am to do it.

I always have been a bit contrary

I have already signed up for the Etack 2010.

While driving to Applecross a couple of years ago I thought it would be a challenge to cycle it.

Guess where may be next

Even if they will no longer be closed road events, they are still public roads.

Jonr

I rode the Bealach Beag in May when the alleged incident occurred and was passed by the ambulance, but my experience of the situation was that the ambulance driver appeared to be inexperienced in driving on single track roads with passing places. I watched the driver barge through nearly causing several more casualties. If you are going at some speed on a road bike on a single track road you can't just ride of the road to let the vehicle past, that would mean going down a ditch or hitting a rock or something and then there would be another casualty. Unlike with most roads in the UK even most single track roads a vehicle can pass a cyclist without the cyclist leaving the road, not so on the Applecross peninsular road, single track means literally single track. When the Ambulance driver passed me on a very sharp, dangerous downhill bend I was forced off the road without even time to brake and I watched this be repeated for several cyclists in front, who later made comment about it. On thse type of roads you have to have time to slow down or even stop before leaving the road/tarmac unless there is a passing place right there, and I don't think the Ambulance driver understood that. There just isn't room to overtake a cyclist on these roads, therefore the cyclists have to actually leave the tarmac and more in the case of an ambulance. The siren was not on continuously so it was difficult to judge where the vehicle was as it was approaching from behind in my case. In the case of an emergency vehicle I think its right that we should get of the road, rather than go to the next passing place as I would for any other vehicle needing to pass, but we have to allowed to that safely.

I had seen the report a month ago or so in the minutes of the community council meetings and wondered whether i should state the above but as i don't know what happened elsewhere on the road I didn't want to cause some great backlash.

Having read minutes from other meetings further back in time I think they are looking for any excuse to withdraw their support. Definitely the members of the community council are "local roads for local people" types. I know a few people who live in Applecross and their view of the members of the community council is exactly that and this is not necessarily the general view of the community at Applecross or Sheildaig. I think in these types of locality it is this outlook that attracts them to become activists as members of the local community council rather than to represent the views of the whole community.

toontra

I was nearly run off the road going up the Bealach from Applecross in May (not the sportive, just a Sunday morning ride). The van driver wasn't prepared to wait a few seconds till I reached a passing point - he hooted repeatedly before squeezing past. I found out later he'd done the same to a friend further down the hill and at the summit we spoke to two cyclists who'd come up from the other side - same thing, only more dangerous as he was going faster.

My view is that the council were looking for an excuse to withdraw support, and that the word of a single ambulance driver (who as has been said was driving erratically) was enough for them. Let's face it, virtually all the locals are drivers and probably very few are cyclists. I think it is simply that some of them (probably the more vociferous) don't want the inconvenience of having cyclists slowing their journeys down by a few seconds/minutes.

rowman

I think the organizers should rename the event the 'Royston Vasey'

aberdeen_lune

So how many spare inner tubes will I take for this one then? I used up two at the Etape Caledonia. I have a good pump now which is a bonus.

bompington

I was nudged by a service bus (transit minibus) on the ramp up the bealach this year, I was already doing my best Danny Macaskill balancing act on the very edge of the tarmac next to a nice little ditch & crash barrier. There wasn't a passing place nearby, & I suppose in his defence it must have been a bit frustrating as I was down to about 5mph by then. Most drivers waited happily in passing places, in fact there were lots of positive comments and encouragement!

I don't know anything about the ambulance, but surely it would be appropriate to keep the siren on? How else does the driver expect cyclists to know he's coming? And didn't the caualty get airlifted anyway?

The background to all this is rural areas' love/hate relationship with tourists - they need the income, but don't want the nasty things getting in their way. A lot of the complaints (see Etape C protesters for a start) are incomers anyway, who move to the area (or more commonly have second homes) for precisely the same reasons as the tourists come.

As for community councils, they are (to generalise grossly, but based on at least some evidence) full of opinionated busybodies who get frustrated at their lack of real power to make anybody do what they want - in Scotland they have almost no statutory powers at all. I have no idea about the Applecross one, but none of the cases I've ever heard about can really make any claim to be representative of their local community.

Anonymous

I do not condone anyone holding up an emergency vehicle!....(and there are some cyclists out there who are so obsessed with 'going for a time' that none else matters)....but I reckon its just plain bad luck this happened on the day of an event like this?

But lets be honest....these tiny small roads are totally unsuitable for any emergency vehicle...it would definately get held up on most occasions....even an oncoming vehicle could cause delays....again, its just unfortunate to happen with a big cycling event? ...where delays would be increased.

Seems that the increased number of cyclists in the area are 'causing concern' for this local community council?...and this is what really annoys me...not the ambulance event on the day (which I'm at a loss on how it could be resolved -even for future events) but these trumpet blowers...'mountains out of mole hills' type people....what is it with this lot?....Are they all so bored that they latch onto anything?...and I very much doubt they speak for the whole community....but they are a dangerous lot....swaying local opinion with sensationalist news....'man near dies because of cycling event'....could easily be 'man near dies because we live in a wilderness with very limited access'....or 'man near dies because roads are closed by snow'....

Living in Applecross is dangerous in this respect...full stop....theres 2 way to it.....over the Bealach or around the coast....I wouldn't want to have a heart attack over there I tell you....anything could cause delays...'a lorry coming over the bealach'...'animals on the road'....'caravans'...etc...its just unsuitable for emergency services...and even with the most thought out planning I reckon the event would still cause delays for any emergency vehicle.....but again...theres so many other things in 'applecross' life which could cause similar delays?

The locals have had to accept the way of life up there...it has its good points and it has its bad points...and road access is a bad point.

Forget it and enjoy the Bealach Mor....theres no fix....and be respectful of any future emergency vehicles....although I reckon theres more chance of getting struck with lightning than a repeat incident....very unfortunate.

cyclopath

As a participant in recent Beags and Mors and the Highland Cross over many years, it dismays me to read of these developments.
Such events really do need the support of the local communities. However, it strikes me that, from personal observation, the Applecross community do give that support. The issue would seem to be the attitudes of the Community Council, or a few strident members thereof.
And what really is their concern?
The emergency access argument is a spurious one at best. On any given day there could be any number of reasons why vehicular access might be hampered. Taken to it's logical conclusion that argument would have the roads kept free of ALL traffic, just in case, you can't be too careful. etc. Plainly that would be a nonsense. If you choose to live in remote areas this access problem is one that will not go away and just has to be accepted and the commonsense of other road users relied upon.
I suspect that this is more about those strident individuals feeling important and trying to maintain their personal idyll, which is a great shame because the effect is to give the impression that the community is less than welcoming to visitors. In the longer term that can only be detrimental to local businesses.
It's a dangerous game they play.
I'll be there for the Bealach Mor, but look for me spending my money in Shieldaig or Torridon.

crankitup_gear_glencoe

Write to the editor and copy it to the Community Council in Appelcross. CC 's are seldom the voice of all the community and are often nimbies. Several friends helped at the incident mentioned and might well have saved his life with BLS .

A great event so worth fighting it's corner.

Jonr

The story at Royston Vasey continues.........

http://www.applecrosscommunity.org.uk/l ... nutes.html

amaferanga

What a load of shite in the CC minutes. For example, asking that larger rider ID numbers be used only 8 days before the event and that more marshalls be posted on the coast road (maybe if the local community got behind the event and volunteered themselves there could have been more marshals). The CC seem to have convinced themselves that the event is a much bigger problem than it actually is. It's only one day per year FFS :evil:

Bloody NIMBYism....

DaveMoss

Critical Mass ride to Applecross antone?

risi

From the minutes:

"Tim Daplyn, who has a lot of experience as a cyclist competing at a high level, explained that serious cyclists don’t approve of this type of event, which is unlicensed and outside the remit of the International Cycling Federation or the International Cycling Union. At events under the control of these organisations cyclists are always identifiable and can be disqualified during the race by a marshal or member of the police for any misdemeanour. These bodies look on events like the Bealach Mor as purely commercial and potentially dangerous. The cyclists are not insured by the organisers, but are advised to take out their own insurance. Tim pointed out that this may not stand up in court, furthermore, a cyclist injured in such an event may seek to sue not only the organisers, but also the Council and Community Councils which had agreed to the events going ahead."

What a load of cack. If "serious" cyclists don't approve of such events why does the UCI have its "Cycling for All" calendar, including half a dozen UK sportives then. Maybe I have never met a serious cyclist - all the ones I know have an evolved sense of humour (and a good bullsh*t detector to go along with it).
For what it's worth, Tim Daplyn is an Audax rider who moved from the Bristol area to near Wester Ross after retiring and in previous minutes has complained about the number of visitors to the area. Hypocrite, moi?
Not sure about the insurance side - maybe it depends upon the event, but, for example the recent Cheddar sportive had a minimum entry age of 18 for insurance purposes.

amaferanga

So Tim Daplyn is an audax rider? Never heard of an audax rider disapproving of sportives before :roll:

BigG67

I didn't know you could "compete at a high level" of audax......

Still I know the answer to all this - close the roads for the event 8)

DaveMoss

Cricky, it gets worse. Oddly enough the very first Bealach event was sanctioned and insured by The League International, which in turn is affiliated to the International Cycling Federation, ( I know coz I sanctioned it as Scottish TLI secretary) so he's wrong on two counts. The phrase "riders are not insured" can be misleading, in fact sportives invariably ( and handson events for sure) insure the event, including the riders, against third party liability claims, which is all that matters when it comes to organisers being sued. It is, however, unusual for riders in any cycling event, including fully fledged races, to be insured by the event for personal accident injuries. His remark that the community council could be sued by an injured party if they failed to object to the event just goes to show what a plonker he is.
What is sad is that this community council seems so ready to take decisions based on such gross misinformation. Quite frankly their credibility is zero and I only hope the people at the Highland council treat them with the contempt they deserve.

dsoutar

Surprised TD is taken seriously but then this is the community council I suppose. See this document:
http://www.tssf.org.uk/Members/Chronicl ... 0S2009.pdf and search for Tim Daplyn (several occurences). If he is behaving as a hermit, htf does he attend the CC meetings ? video link ?

Jonr

I hope the highland council are aware of the c**p thats discussed in these cc meetings as they are the ones who make the final decision on the road closures.

when you start to look at these peoples backgrounds it just reinforces the NIMBY image they already have.

Also it was amusing to read in their minutes that it took about 5 months to consider what to do about some sheep poo that was outside the school gate.

bompington

Jonr wrote:

I hope the highland council are aware of the c**p thats discussed in these cc meetings as they are the ones who make the final decision on the road closures.

when you start to look at these peoples backgrounds it just reinforces the NIMBY image they already have.

Also it was amusing to read in their minutes that it took about 5 months to consider what to do about some sheep poo that was outside the school gate.

Sheep poo! In the Highlands! Fancy making your dream move to a rural idyll and finding there's sheep poo there!

balfie

Was this Tim chap at the meeting? If so, he's not mentioned in the minute, which is therefore incompetent. If not, this should be clearly stated as opinion in evidence, not fact. If you go through the record of minutes, you will find an almost universal negativity towards the event. It might be an idea to pressure the ward manager to bring these people to heel.