Should I splash out for the Koga Miyata or go for the Dawes?

jonnyboy2

Hey everyone, I've just joined Bike Radar and have been very impressed with what I've seen so far. I would appreciate the input of some folk more knowledgable than I on a bike question that I have in front of me.

I'm heading off on a 3 week tour of Italy in two weeks time. The main problem being that I dont have a bike as my Edinburgh Country bicycle (2002 vintage) was stolen last year and I never got round to replacing it. I'm currently living in Germany, and so it is difficult to find a typical drop handle bar tourer here as the touring concept here is totally different

I'm faced with three options, which are primarily determined by bike availability at short notice..:
1) get a Edinburgh Country Traveller / Explorer delivered to Germany. Approx GBP700. Compact frame size 49cm
2) get a Dawes Horizon - approx GBP 800. Normal frame, size57cm
3) my local bike store in Germany has a 2007 Koga Miyata Globe Traveller with drop handlebars, that supposedly retailed at €2,100 which they are willing to shift for €1,400. Normal frame, size 54cm. Showroom condition (minus a few scratches from gathering dust over the last two unsold years)

Obviously they are
a) different qualities of bike, but thought I'd see if anyone had a view on what the best option would be in terms of VALUE for money. My budget is flexible, but I want to be sure that I get what I pay for (especially if going for the Koga)

b) different sizes... to be honest, despite having ridden over 20,000km on my old Edinburgh Country, I've always been entirely confused by bike sizing, particularly where compact frames are concerned. I'm a snip over 6ft2. Do the bikes above seem like sensible options

Help! I kinda need to have sorted myself out by the end of Monday, especially if looking for deliveries from the UK..

All comments welcome!
Yours, hopelessly confused
Jonny

xilios

If the Koga Miyata Globe Traveller fits you and your wallet get it.
Below is a link to help with your decision.
http://sheldonbrown.com/frames/index.html
cheers

GyatsoLa

I know the drop in sterling in the last year has changed things a bit, but in general I think bikes are far better value in Germany and the Netherlands.

Both the Dawes and the Edinburgh bikes would do well, but to be honest neither look to be bargains at that price. The Dawes in particular has some pretty low grade parts that might need replacing quite quickly.

I'm not mad about the idea of suspension on a touring bike, but Koga Miyata have a lot of experience with it. That price looks great for what is a very high spec tourer. the only question really is your style of touring - the Koga is very much a slow speed cruiser, built for admiring the countryside, not for eating up the miles. You might find it quite frustrating to ride if you fancy tackling big mountains on a fairly tight timescale.

I'm no expert on sizing, but I think 54cm might be a touch small for someone your size.

jonnyboy2

The Koga that I'm looking at is this one
http://www.testberichte.de/test/produkt_tests_koga_miyata_globetraveller_gte__p72884.html

where the bike got rated very strongly.

Is this a slow tourer? I know that the World Traveller is a slow tourer that is built for going through combat zones, but was hoping that the Globe Traveller is a bit nippier

The main dilemma I have is around the sizing... my old Edinburgh Country was 52cm, but was a compact frame. The available Koga has a flat top tube and a 54cm seat tube.

As I said, I'm 6ft2 but have a comparatively longer back than I do legs. As I plan to use this bike as a distance tourer (I plan to buy a nippy road bike soon too for fast day rides and a triathlon that I'm aiming for next year) I dont mind having a more upright style. I'm just not sure what the downsides are of riding a frame that is potentially 3cm too short for me?

Thanks for your input so far guys. Greatly appreciated

bigjim

I would never buy a frame that is too short for me. Been there, done that. Too many problems with stems, posts etc. especially on a bike that I would be spending long days on. I am 6'2" with a long leg and need a 25"/63cm frame and bikes to fit are a nightmare to source. I ended up with my latest bike just buying a 25" Saracen Ventoux frame and building the bike up. Even with your short leg these frames you mention appear too small. I also have a L sized EBC bike that I have used for 3 years and find it very good. I would not hesitate to use it for light touring. What is the German attitude to Touring?

RonL

I'd suggest you try the Koga for size, comfort etc, assuming they will allow you to. If that works buy it's a good deal. Alternatively, the Revolution is a lower spec but a) you've tried and tested one b) it is upgradeable and good value and will be new !! , it also won many plaudits in Cycling Plus reviews. Unsure of the weight of the Koga but assume it is comparable. My mate has a revolution county, has done several thousand mile on it and it still runs great, we did another 60 miles on Friday night and he just keeps rolling along.
Finally go with your gut feeling -- it's rarely wrong in the longer term.

Enjoy the trip, Italy is great for cycling. Area cycling maps are readily available in newsagents.

jonnyboy2

@bigjim - thanks for the comments. I briefly had a Dawes Super Galaxy with a 60cm frame last year and found it a bit long on the top tube for me and was really having to reach out forward for the drop handlebars. Possibly more of a racing position than a long touring position

The German attitude to touring is that they typically use bikes with very upright positions, the comfort handlebars that curl up (butterfly?) and that are built more for short distance comfort than long distance efficiency. The bikes are much heavier than I am used to from the UK

@RonL - I'm looking forward to Italy - I've picked up the Lonely Planet Cycling Italy guide and a couple of the Bikeline cycling route guides which are v helpful. As I'm taking my girlfriend along for her first bike tour, I'll be keeping it more holiday cycling focused rather than a 3 week sprint the length and breadth of the country.

I guess I'll wait to hear whether EBC can logistically get me one delivered over to Germany; if yes, then I'll need to choose. If not, then it'll be the Koga - as long as I convince myself that it is feasible size wise

GyatsoLa

jonnyboy2 wrote:

The Koga that I'm looking at is this one
http://www.testberichte.de/test/produkt_tests_koga_miyata_globetraveller_gte__p72884.html

where the bike got rated very strongly.

Is this a slow tourer? I know that the World Traveller is a slow tourer that is built for going through combat zones, but was hoping that the Globe Traveller is a bit nippier

Apologies, I was looking at an out of date web picture - I thought the Koga you were thinking of is the suspension version. That one looks great - a few years ago I ran into an English couple in SE Asia who were riding a pair of them, they went to Holland especially to buy them. They loved the bikes.

jonnyboy2

If i get any more positive noises on the Koga and I think I'll be straight out to buy it later on...!

robthehungrymonkey

Assuming fit, i'd get teh Koga, seems the best value despite the extra cost. And I just think it's a bit cooler? IMO, a bike isn't a purely logical decision. I bought my bike because it gets me enthusiastic about cycling it.

The Koga miyata is what Mark Beaumont used on his RTW record too, which gives it a bit of pedigree.

dennisn

Assuming they are both good bikes and good fits, which one really does IT for YOU?
Which one do YOU want?

amaferanga

I think the 54cm Koga has a 55cm top tube. I'm 5'8" and would generally ride a 54cm frame with a 54-55cm top tube. Unless you have a very short torso (but you say the opposite is true) then this surely is going to be too small for you?

No point in buying a lovely bike that makes you ache because it doesn't fit....

jonnyboy2

dennisn wrote:

Assuming they are both good bikes and good fits, which one really does IT for YOU?
Which one do YOU want?

That one's easy. I'd like the Koga!

jonnyboy2

amaferanga wrote:

I think the 54cm Koga has a 55cm top tube. I'm 5'8" and would generally ride a 54cm frame with a 54-55cm top tube. Unless you have a very short torso (but you say the opposite is true) then this surely is going to be too small for you?

No point in buying a lovely bike that makes you ache because it doesn't fit....

And this is the reason I'm deliberating on it so much. You are right - the 54cm Koga has a (almost flat but not quite) top tube of 55cm. I was previously riding an Edinburgh Country that had a v compact frame with a 52cm seat tube and a v sloping 57cm top tube and it generally fitted ok. I'm kinda hoping that the 55cm flat top tube is effectively the same as the 57cm sloping top tube. I guess I need a calculator and a few sine / cosine buttons to work that one out..

Interestingly... I briefly had a Dawes Super Galaxy last year (dont ask what happened to it...) with a 60cm seat tube which felt like the reach was too long for me and that it was too much of a racing type position. I've just checked the Dawes sizing measurements, and they indicate that it had a 57.3cm top tube (Dawes are obviously tall bikes...)

So maybe a 55cm top tube is workable for me - am happy with a more upright position...

andymiller

Not picking on you in particular johnny, but why, oh why, do people ask for recommendations about what bike to buy and then not say anything about the type of riding they want to do with it? It's like going on the Top Gear forum and saying you don't know whether to buy a Porsche or a Ford Galaxy and not mentioning whether or not you have children.

if you were planning on travelling around the world on dirt roads, fully loaded with camping gear then the Koga should definitely be on the shortlist. It would be hard to beat the spec list even with a custom build. At 1,400€ it's reasonable but not outstanding value (a year ago it would have been a different story). There's a reason it never sold at 2,100€.

On the other hand if you are planning three weeks of light road touring staying in B&Bs then the Koga is probably a bit over the top and I'd say save your money and go for something cheaper.

jonnyboy2

Andy, fair point! On the value point on the Koga - I'm guessing that you are referring to the exchange rate movement since last year, making euro bikes more expensive? As I'm working in Germany, I'm earning euros so doesnt have an impact (thankfully)

I plan to use the bike primarily on 1-2 week cylcing tours in Western Europe. This initial 3 week trip will be a tootle around Tuscany with the girlfriend on her first proper bike trip with a mix of B&Bs and camping. Future trips likely to be more camping oriented

Otherwise, likely to be used as a work commuter and general out and around bike. Will be getting a road bike for fast day rides

So yes, I'd agree, the Koga probably does seem like overkill for the task at hand, but my hands are kind of tied primarily due to my lazy ass not getting organised earlier in the summer and not having too many choices on hand due to the different style of bikes over here in Germany.

Having had a look around other threads on here, I think that with more time to play with I'd be going for a Condor Heritage which looks ace... but alas time is what I dont have at the moment

robthehungrymonkey

jonnyboy2 wrote:

Andy, fair point! On the value point on the Koga - I'm guessing that you are referring to the exchange rate movement since last year, making euro bikes more expensive? As I'm working in Germany, I'm earning euros so doesnt have an impact (thankfully)

I plan to use the bike primarily on 1-2 week cylcing tours in Western Europe. This initial 3 week trip will be a tootle around Tuscany with the girlfriend on her first proper bike trip with a mix of B&Bs and camping. Future trips likely to be more camping oriented

Otherwise, likely to be used as a work commuter and general out and around bike. Will be getting a road bike for fast day rides

So yes, I'd agree, the Koga probably does seem like overkill for the task at hand, but my hands are kind of tied primarily due to my lazy ass not getting organised earlier in the summer and not having too many choices on hand due to the different style of bikes over here in Germany.

Having had a look around other threads on here, I think that with more time to play with I'd be going for a Condor Heritage which looks ace... but alas time is what I dont have at the moment

The fact you're buying a road bike makes a difference also, as you won't ever need it to be a fast weekend bike. If you've got 2 bikes, i'd want them to do comepletely different things.
I've recently bought a tourer, had my heart set on a Condor Heritage.... but in the end decided to save some money and buy a Kona Sutra (which i'm thoroughly enjoying), I already had a road bike so this is purely a tourer and utility machine.

xilios

[quote="robthehungrymonke
If you've got 2 bikes, i'd want them to do comepletely different things.
.[/quote]

I totally agree, my wife and I have our touring bikes but also our city bikes. If the koga fits and its in good order get it. Its a proper tourer but you need not go around the world with it, it will still be good for a several week or month tour.

bigjim

If the koga fits

Which is the big question. For that sort of money the fit has to be dead right. Or walk away.

jay_clock

I have a KM World Traveller and whilst it is a different concept to the one you are looking it, the overall quality is excellent. I have not given it the full off-road world tour treatment (3 weeks round NZ was the most) but although it is heavy, I much prefer it to my old bike (a Saracen copy of a Dawes Galaxy)

weeve

err ...sorry but at 6'2'' you appear too big for a 54 - Im 5'10 and thats my size in road tour bikes....

jonnyboy2

Ok, Ok, I admit it - you're all right and I'm all wrong. I went back in yesterday for another check on the Koga and - having spent half the week reading about bike sizing - pretty rapidly came to the same conclusion that you have all been pointing out to me. Ie that 54 is way too small - I didnt see it so clearly at the weekend, but was as clear as day yesterday. Which is a shame really as I would have fancied a Koga

Instead, I'll be getting myself a German style tourer (ie more like a normal hybrid with flat handlebars) for a more modest sum, for use on the holiday and general use around town. And I'll be putting the cash saved towards getting myself a decent road bike

Thanks all for your input over the last few days, its been v useful. Not sure I understand bike sizing any better though...