RLJer gets nicked
Comments
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Jay dubbleU wrote:I think that's for you to decide - I don't RLJ or pavement ride - if you can't hack the road you shouldn't be on a bike
Technically, as the question was "am I the embodiment of everything you hate?", it can't possibly be up to me to decide.
And as for this:
"if you can't hack the road you shouldn't be on a bike."
That really is just the worst kind of conceited snobbery. I respect everyone's decision to get out of a car and on a bike, whether they are a lycra clad roadie, shooting past me at 30mph, or the fat old bloke wobbling along on the pavement with a carrier bag hanging from his bars. Everyones fitness, confidence and proficiency are different. For some people, some of the time, avoiding the road is the right thing to do. They have as much right to call themselves a cyclist as you do.Drink poison. Wrestle snakes.0 -
Onan wrote:Jay dubbleU wrote:I think that's for you to decide - I don't RLJ or pavement ride - if you can't hack the road you shouldn't be on a bike
Technically, as the question was "am I the embodiment of everything you hate?", it can't possibly be up to me to decide.
And as for this:
"if you can't hack the road you shouldn't be on a bike."
That really is just the worst kind of conceited snobbery. I respect everyone's decision to get out of a car and on a bike, whether they are a lycra clad roadie, shooting past me at 30mph, or the fat old bloke wobbling along on the pavement with a carrier bag hanging from his bars. Everyones fitness, confidence and proficiency are different. For some people, some of the time, avoiding the road is the right thing to do. They have as much right to call themselves a cyclist as you do.0 -
Always Tyred wrote:Onan wrote:Jay dubbleU wrote:I think that's for you to decide - I don't RLJ or pavement ride - if you can't hack the road you shouldn't be on a bike
Technically, as the question was "am I the embodiment of everything you hate?", it can't possibly be up to me to decide.
And as for this:
"if you can't hack the road you shouldn't be on a bike."
That really is just the worst kind of conceited snobbery. I respect everyone's decision to get out of a car and on a bike, whether they are a lycra clad roadie, shooting past me at 30mph, or the fat old bloke wobbling along on the pavement with a carrier bag hanging from his bars. Everyones fitness, confidence and proficiency are different. For some people, some of the time, avoiding the road is the right thing to do. They have as much right to call themselves a cyclist as you do.
Yep.
I do 99% of my cycling on the road. I prefer to be there, despite the fact that I'm not very fit, not very fast (compounded by the fact that I'm recovering from a very painful surgery), and have never driven a car, because I feel like that's where I'm supposed to be.
I just occasionally cop out for the last little stretch of my journey, which involves the aforementioned mental junction, and then a fairly steep, narrow hill, which is usually rammed with traffic.
What I'm saying is that I don't feel like we ought to be looking down on people who don't feel able to use the roads competently, because it really is a daunting prospect, and for some people, a completely unrealistic one. We all know how hostile of a place the road can be.
We should surely be saying that cycling is the right choice for everybody, not telling people they have no right to be on a bike? My fat old mum for instance, would benefit enormously from getting on a bike for a bit, but I can't see her taking on rush hour traffic. It'd be a shame if we developed an attitude which excluded people like her.Drink poison. Wrestle snakes.0 -
Onan wrote:Jay dubbleU wrote:I think that's for you to decide - I don't RLJ or pavement ride - if you can't hack the road you shouldn't be on a bike
Technically, as the question was "am I the embodiment of everything you hate?", it can't possibly be up to me to decide.
And as for this:
"if you can't hack the road you shouldn't be on a bike."
That really is just the worst kind of conceited snobbery. I respect everyone's decision to get out of a car and on a bike, whether they are a lycra clad roadie, shooting past me at 30mph, or the fat old bloke wobbling along on the pavement with a carrier bag hanging from his bars. Everyones fitness, confidence and proficiency are different. For some people, some of the time, avoiding the road is the right thing to do. They have as much right to call themselves a cyclist as you do.0 -
This does seem to be a reasonable argument. And quite different from the "RLJing is safer" blanket statement. I have said earlier in the thread that whilst it is possible to ride without rljing or being on the pavement, quite safely, it is also possible that it is safer for certain people under certain circumstances. Its also rather different from contending that you are actually in danger sitting at a red light, as certain posters have stated.
The hostility towards cycling is very British, and I've also consistently said that the venom directed towards cyclists isn't really related to what they are actually doing, more towards the resentment that they are moving more or less for free, whereas the driver tends to be stationary, or moving very much slower than they think they should be, at great expense.
I wonder if it will change if petrol gets to £4 a litre and more people start buzzing around on (electric) bicycles?*
*I never seriously expect the general Briton to propel themselves anywhere.0 -
Always Tyred wrote:and I've also consistently said that the venom directed towards cyclists isn't really related to what they are actually doing, more towards the resentment that they are moving more or less for free, whereas the driver tends to be stationary, or moving very much slower than they think they should be, at great expense.
Don't know about this. I believe part of the resentment against pavement riding and RLJ is the feeling that others are breaking the rules that we (wether as drivers or cyclists) are obeying.
I personally have a deep hatred of anyone parking in either a mother&child or disabled spaces“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Always Tyred wrote:
I wonder if it will change if petrol gets to £4 a litre and more people start buzzing around on (electric) bicycles?*
*I never seriously expect the general Briton to propel themselves anywhere.
I've noticed a distinct correlation between rising petrol prices, and my own soaring smugness levels. I'm currently operating at a dangerously high smug-factor.Drink poison. Wrestle snakes.0 -
WheezyMcChubby wrote:Always Tyred wrote:and I've also consistently said that the venom directed towards cyclists isn't really related to what they are actually doing, more towards the resentment that they are moving more or less for free, whereas the driver tends to be stationary, or moving very much slower than they think they should be, at great expense.
Don't know about this. I believe part of the resentment against pavement riding and RLJ is the feeling that others are breaking the rules that we (wether as drivers or cyclists) are obeying.
I personally have a deep hatred of anyone parking in either a mother&child or disabled spaces
I tend to downplay this one, given the number of rules that are routinely and flagrantly broken by motorists without any comparable venom.0 -
Always Tyred wrote:WheezyMcChubby wrote:Always Tyred wrote:and I've also consistently said that the venom directed towards cyclists isn't really related to what they are actually doing, more towards the resentment that they are moving more or less for free, whereas the driver tends to be stationary, or moving very much slower than they think they should be, at great expense.
Don't know about this. I believe part of the resentment against pavement riding and RLJ is the feeling that others are breaking the rules that we (wether as drivers or cyclists) are obeying.
I personally have a deep hatred of anyone parking in either a mother&child or disabled spaces
I tend to downplay this one, given the number of rules that are routinely and flagrantly broken by motorists without any comparable venom.
i think there is a differnce between flaunting the rules RLJ and bending the rules, going though as it changes red or soon after, that they are the one and the same isn't seen as so. at least thats my impression any way.0 -
As someone who takes her disabled Gran for her shopping ever week it drives me mad seeing people illegally parked in disabled spaces.
But I don't think the resentment toward RLJers is necessarily just because they are breaking rules that motorists are obeying. I think they're resentful because they can't break the rule even if they wanted to.0 -
I know what you're saying null but I see drivers RLJ every day. They also talk on phones, speed, drive without due care and attention, park illegally etc. The problem is that so much emotional baggage is tied up with their "car" that they hate to see anyone else breaking the rules.Pain is only weakness leaving the body0
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Always Tyred wrote:
I wonder if it will change if petrol gets to £4 a litre and more people start buzzing around on (electric) bicycles?*
*I never seriously expect the general Briton to propel themselves anywhere.
Do you think that the UK is Europe's version of USA-lite?0 -
That thought is too depressing to contemplate.0
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roger merriman wrote:Always Tyred wrote:WheezyMcChubby wrote:Always Tyred wrote:and I've also consistently said that the venom directed towards cyclists isn't really related to what they are actually doing, more towards the resentment that they are moving more or less for free, whereas the driver tends to be stationary, or moving very much slower than they think they should be, at great expense.
Don't know about this. I believe part of the resentment against pavement riding and RLJ is the feeling that others are breaking the rules that we (wether as drivers or cyclists) are obeying.
I personally have a deep hatred of anyone parking in either a mother&child or disabled spaces
I tend to downplay this one, given the number of rules that are routinely and flagrantly broken by motorists without any comparable venom.
i think there is a differnce between flaunting the rules RLJ and bending the rules, going though as it changes red or soon after, that they are the one and the same isn't seen as so. at least thats my impression any way.
I was going to be picky about the difference between flaunting and flouting (which I suspect is the word you meant to use). But then I thought perhaps flaunting works okay after all!Never be tempted to race against a Barclays Cycle Hire bike. If you do, there are only two outcomes. Of these, by far the better is that you now have the scalp of a Boris Bike.0 -
-null- wrote:Onan wrote:Jay dubbleU wrote:I think that's for you to decide - I don't RLJ or pavement ride - if you can't hack the road you shouldn't be on a bike
Technically, as the question was "am I the embodiment of everything you hate?", it can't possibly be up to me to decide.
And as for this:
"if you can't hack the road you shouldn't be on a bike."
That really is just the worst kind of conceited snobbery. I respect everyone's decision to get out of a car and on a bike, whether they are a lycra clad roadie, shooting past me at 30mph, or the fat old bloke wobbling along on the pavement with a carrier bag hanging from his bars. Everyones fitness, confidence and proficiency are different. For some people, some of the time, avoiding the road is the right thing to do. They have as much right to call themselves a cyclist as you do.
I see what you mean - never the less if cyclists want to be taken seriously they need to develop a level of skill which enables them to deal with road situations in the same way as motorists - I get seriously hacked off at youths on bikes attempting to ride along a footpath which is about 1.5m wide and has kids in prams, pensioners etc at a pace which is frankly dangerous.
As for RLJer's they belong in the shallow end of the gene pool and hopefully won't survive long enough to breed.
Sorry if I'm coming over as a smug b*stard and although I've only been back on a bike for a year after a 10 year break I have taken time to relearn skills so that I can ride safely on the road0 -
Jay dubbleU wrote:I see what you mean - never the less if cyclists want to be taken seriously they need to develop a level of skill which enables them to deal with road situations in the same way as motorists - I get seriously hacked off at youths on bikes attempting to ride along a footpath which is about 1.5m wide and has kids in prams, pensioners etc at a pace which is frankly dangerous.
Of course some of those pensioner with their mobility scooters are just as bad. Wouldn't be the first time one of them has almost run me over as they've flew by at top speed.0 -
jimmypippa wrote:Always Tyred wrote:
I wonder if it will change if petrol gets to £4 a litre and more people start buzzing around on (electric) bicycles?*
*I never seriously expect the general Briton to propel themselves anywhere.
Do you think that the UK is Europe's version of USA-lite?0 -
-null- wrote:Jay dubbleU wrote:I see what you mean - never the less if cyclists want to be taken seriously they need to develop a level of skill which enables them to deal with road situations in the same way as motorists - I get seriously hacked off at youths on bikes attempting to ride along a footpath which is about 1.5m wide and has kids in prams, pensioners etc at a pace which is frankly dangerous.
Of course some of those pensioner with their mobility scooters are just as bad. Wouldn't be the first time one of them has almost run me over as they've flew by at top speed.
Some people particularly young men seem to regard it as a blow to their manhood if they have to get off and walk - agree with you about the pensioners though0 -
Sometimes I think that there is more prejudice against cyclists from other cyclists than from any other group.Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
Joseph Gallivan0 -
iainment wrote:Sometimes I think that there is more prejudice against cyclists from other cyclists than from any other group.
So, when someone pipes up that they do it, its pretty understandable that it get an adverse reception. It doesn't make things any better when the reasoning is "I'm alright, Jack."0 -
But you , apparently, flout the law re pedal reflectors and this is ok.
Please re read what I have posted re RLJ. I have always said that other roadusers and peds should be respected and no ones right of way be taken. I don't advocate ignoring others feelings or the consequences of what you do, but don't see the need to wait at a light with the way clear and no danger to me or others.
Pip pip.Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
Joseph Gallivan0 -
iainment wrote:But you , apparently, flout the law re pedal reflectors and this is ok.
Please re read what I have posted re RLJ. I have always said that other roadusers and peds should be respected and no ones right of way be taken. I don't advocate ignoring others feelings or the consequences of what you do, but don't see the need to wait at a light with the way clear and no danger to me or others.
Pip pip.
No. What I do isn't selfish. What you do is. You state, "I don't advocate ignoring others feelings or the consequences of what you do" and do the opposite.
In the instant you do it, you may be careful, you may be considerate, but you have not acknowledged, or understood, the indirect effects. I don't think they are proportionate actions, but they do occur. Sticking your head in the sand because it is convenient for you is your perogative, but I see no reason for me to like it.
Pip pip.0 -
Always tyred,
I don't agree that rljers per se inflame people against cyclists. I don't agree that I am selfish as no one is adversely effected by my actions. I don't see the link that is made on here, I think that a large number of motorists are prejudiced against cyclists because they see us as below them and whatever we do they will not respect us, so why pander to them. I think that wreckless cyclists who endanger others are reprehensible.
I suppose the point I am making is that those who lambast me because I break the law should perhaps be 100% in their observance of it. Apologies if you did not make that point in that way.
Pip pip!Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
Joseph Gallivan0 -
iainment wrote:Always tyred,
I don't agree that rljers per se inflame people against cyclists. I don't agree that I am selfish as no one is adversely effected by my actions. I don't see the link that is made on here, I think that a large number of motorists are prejudiced against cyclists because they see us as below them and whatever we do they will not respect us, so why pander to them. I think that wreckless cyclists who endanger others are reprehensible.
I suppose the point I am making is that those who lambast me because I break the law should perhaps be 100% in their observance of it. Apologies if you did not make that point in that way.
Pip pip!
Since I disagree, I am bound to lambast you to some degree. I can only speak from my own experience, which tells me that rlj-ing is the single most irritating thing to motorists and that a small proportion will exact revenge as a result.
This is why I disaprove of it. Why I don't personally do it is because I don't have to and because on the whole I don't think its particularly safe. However, having lived in Canada, where you can filter right on a red light, WHEN pedestrians are allowed to cross, its perfectly reasonable to want minor changes to the law to permit at least some of the circumstances you describe.
So I don't disagree with you entirely!!0 -
Crikey, is this thread still going?!?!?!?!
It's just a hill. Get over it.0 -
SecretSam wrote:Crikey, is this thread still going?!?!?!?!0
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iainment wrote:Sometimes I think that there is more prejudice against cyclists from other cyclists than from any other group.
But people are always most judgmental about the things they dislike about themselves, so it's not surprising.
I legally parked in a parent and child parking space the other day! It was brilliant0 -
biondino wrote:iainment wrote:Sometimes I think that there is more prejudice against cyclists from other cyclists than from any other group.
But people are always most judgmental about the things they dislike about themselves, so it's not surprising.
I legally parked in a parent and child parking space the other day! It was brilliant
I used to park in them all the time - only some times I forgot I didn't have the kid with me. :oops:0 -
Onan wrote:I think I break several laws, and perhaps more importantly, commit several commuterising forum faux pas on my commute.
I pootle up to the lights at an insanely busy junction in the right hand lane, as if I'm about to turn right. Then if the lights change, I technically jump them, but only to go as far as the pedestrian crossing, which I then nip accross, and finish the short remainder of my journey on the pavement.
If the lights stay green, I take it as a sign, and cycle accross the junction I'm convinced will one day kill me on the road.
Am I the embodiment of everything you hate?
Gosh, you are! We should rename the unholy combination of RLJing and pavement riding "Onanism". Perhaps there could be some kind of gesture attached?0 -
biondino wrote:iainment wrote:Sometimes I think that there is more prejudice against cyclists from other cyclists than from any other group.
But people are always most judgmental about the things they dislike about themselves, so it's not surprising.
I legally parked in a parent and child parking space the other day! It was brilliant0