Draughting/Pacing etiquette?
JonEdwards
Posts: 452
so I went out for a pre-work blast round Richmond Park this morning. Just a ride, for once not trying to slaughter myself.
Last lap, I popped out of the park at Kingston Gate and went over Kingston Hill (longer climb), then back in at Robin Hood Gate. As I rejoin the road in the park another guy on a carbon S-works is coming down from the Ballet School. I go round the island first and head off towards Roehampton.
10 secs later he comes steaming past in the big ring 5-7mph faster than me, and disappears off. Having a large streak of greyhound in me, I give in to temptation and decide to see if I can keep up. He's now 50m+ distant, so i bury myself to catch up with him. I manage it and sit back about 1.5 bike lengths back. To my mind, close enough for pacing, but not close enough for draughting (which I know is bad form - My limited experience of group road riding suggests that you need to be within goosing distance of the rider in front to be classed as draughtting); and with enough room to allow for sudden moves by the guy in front.
He's plugged into his ipod and seems blissfully unaware of the fact that there's any one behind him, I need to try and get my lungs back in my body and get my heart rate back down to merely flat out. This continues until we're almost at the car park near Roehampton Gate, when he suddenly sits up, moves out slightly and drops a couple of gears. Fine thinks me, he's pulling off into the carpark, so I back off too, not wanting to either over- or undertake. We roll past the carpark though, and he continues to slow, so I overtake, which is greeted by a very sarcastic "Thank You" as I go past. I pull off at Roehampton Gate to carry on to work - end of story.
But what is the etiquette in such situations? Obviously, he thought I wasn't taking my turn. Me? If I'd have gone past him, I simply wouldn't have been able to hold the pace, and anyway, it surely would have been taken as a challenge to a race - not something I'm interested in? Surely if you think someone is taking the piss by draughting you, you simply drop them? And anyway if you're out on a training ride and someone makes it a bit harder by taking a tow, then surely that's all for the better?
Comments?
Cheers,
Jon
Last lap, I popped out of the park at Kingston Gate and went over Kingston Hill (longer climb), then back in at Robin Hood Gate. As I rejoin the road in the park another guy on a carbon S-works is coming down from the Ballet School. I go round the island first and head off towards Roehampton.
10 secs later he comes steaming past in the big ring 5-7mph faster than me, and disappears off. Having a large streak of greyhound in me, I give in to temptation and decide to see if I can keep up. He's now 50m+ distant, so i bury myself to catch up with him. I manage it and sit back about 1.5 bike lengths back. To my mind, close enough for pacing, but not close enough for draughting (which I know is bad form - My limited experience of group road riding suggests that you need to be within goosing distance of the rider in front to be classed as draughtting); and with enough room to allow for sudden moves by the guy in front.
He's plugged into his ipod and seems blissfully unaware of the fact that there's any one behind him, I need to try and get my lungs back in my body and get my heart rate back down to merely flat out. This continues until we're almost at the car park near Roehampton Gate, when he suddenly sits up, moves out slightly and drops a couple of gears. Fine thinks me, he's pulling off into the carpark, so I back off too, not wanting to either over- or undertake. We roll past the carpark though, and he continues to slow, so I overtake, which is greeted by a very sarcastic "Thank You" as I go past. I pull off at Roehampton Gate to carry on to work - end of story.
But what is the etiquette in such situations? Obviously, he thought I wasn't taking my turn. Me? If I'd have gone past him, I simply wouldn't have been able to hold the pace, and anyway, it surely would have been taken as a challenge to a race - not something I'm interested in? Surely if you think someone is taking the piss by draughting you, you simply drop them? And anyway if you're out on a training ride and someone makes it a bit harder by taking a tow, then surely that's all for the better?
Comments?
Cheers,
Jon
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Comments
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long and short of it... Each to their own I think. Your not training together. Riding an iPod is shite on a bike anyway, but I dont hold that against any cyclist if they want to do that... he went past you and you caught up for a toe. But if you had had a chat then agreed to work together for a lap or so then fine. maybe ya Londers need to talk more ;-)
Maybe he couldn't drop you and was happy keeping his pace!?
I see guys sitting on the wheel of other riders on sportives never taking the front. Then think they have had a great sportive getting a PB.
All part of the fun.. ?!?! :P“Look where you want to go. Not where you are going”0 -
at 1.5 bike lengths your definatly benifiting from drafting to some extent. but why not? I think the solution is to move away from London, preferably up north where we don't even know what the word etiquette means ( is if french?)Sportives and tours, 100% for charity, http://www.tearfundcycling.btck.co.uk0
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I think the solution is to move away from London, preferably up north
Funnily enough, that is the BIG PLAN...0 -
Just don't worry about it. Maybe it's a bit cheeky for someone to sit on someone for ages only to shoot past on a hill but at the end of the day it's their loss -- they're not proving anything. Getting a grump on like this guy did is unnecessary. I don't mind people sitting on my wheel in the park unless they interrupt what I'm doing or get dangerously close. With people I ride with often this isn't a problem as I'm comfortable they know what they're doing and they know what I'm doing, but if you get someone you don't know almost riding in your back pocket it's a bit off-putting. A guy the other day was almost overlapping my rear wheel -- dodgy at speed.
At any rate, 1.5 bike lengths is a long way back. Generally you'd want to no more than a foot from someone's wheel for maximum benefit.0 -
I'm always conscious of the fact that someone might be timing a solo effort (in Richmond Park), so my offer/attempt to 'take my turn' may not be welcome. In which case communication, or a tentative overtaking manoeuvre (to see if it triggers avoidance of my slipstream), might be in order.
Elsewhere, this is less likely to be a problem, so after a suitable period, I will take a turn - even if only to prove that the best I can do is too slow for my new buddy; at least I tried.
However, in this specific example, the distance was way too short to merit either a definite expectation of 'it's your turn', or to justify a miffed response. He should have been flattered.0 -
To be fair to him you were going a lot slower when he went passed you-5-7mph is a fair bit faster.He might have been doing an interval when he passed you.It can be awkard when someones doing 1-2mph less than you.Because you know when you over take that person they're suddenly going to be going 1-2mph faster.Instead of doing there own thing the old ego kicks in."How dare he/she overtake me".Before anyone jumps on me i do it myself.I try not but it's very hard to resist the red rag
TT photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/steverob/0 -
I didnt know there was drafting pacing etiquette in sportives, from what I've seen there's lots of riders who like to ride these without taking a turn on the front of a bunch if at all possible. Must make a PB sooooo satisfying!
As for your RP dilemma, seems if he wanted you to come through so much he could have given you a flick of the elbow or waved you through as he pulled or heaven forbid actually spoken to you.
Like some previous posters say, I'm not bothered by people i dont know drafting per se, just when they do it in heavy traffic etc. I've had 2 guys draft me and then proceed to run in the back of me on the way to work in the last 6 months when I've had to brake for traffic.
The only more annoying thing than that is the guy I overtake who then repositions himself infront of me when I stop at lights (or sometimes he just simply RLJs) so I then have to move out to pass him agan, it can happen half a dozen times if I'm unfortunate enough to come across him (once every couple of weeks or so). I've even told him (politely) its pointless if I just have to repass him within 100 yards, but he obviously just likes being an annoying tw@t.0
